49 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

this has made page 4? wow. impressive.

So here's the thing. The vast, overwhelming, majority of players don't feel that there needs to be a specific rule around the re-rolling of cocked dice. We all know how this is handled, you re-roll the dice, it is the most obvious and fairest way to handle that. There is at least one player who doesn't agree and believes that because there is no explicit rule that allows it then you can't re-roll any dice that do not land flat (although no alternative to re-rolling has been suggested so it seems like the expectation is that you lose those dice completely).

If I was playing someone who believed that cocked dice are not permitted to be re-rolled the course of action seems simple, you call a Judge or TO, they will almost certainly permit the re-roll. Then you remember that player and simply don't play against them again if you can possibly avoid it.

99.9% of the player base will have no problems here, for the 0.1% you can call a Judge/TO and they can make a call, which will stand for that tournament. If the player insists on calling a Judge or TO every time any dice land cocked then I would strongly consider objecting to the same Judge/TO about that player causing deliberate slow play by unneeded rules queries.

FFG don't need to rule on this because almost all players already know how to handle this situation, it's a not new to the board/minis gaming community.

Yes that is the funny thing. He does not say what he is doing with cocked dice. Because they are no different then dice dropped on the floor. What you do, take the result you deem the most "probable" because again, the rules do not say to do that. And a cocked dice could have rolled for a bit more time, and most cocked dice are not that clear cut far from it. So what you do when this happen OP ?

Here's where I agree with nikk whyte: the specific thing doesn't matter . But it's good to have something codified into one clear standard .

And not just what is done with a cocked die, but what dice count as cocked. Is a die half on an asteroid cocked? It it's not perfectly level, but it's pretty close to level...

14 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's where I agree with nikk whyte: the specific thing doesn't matter . But it's good to have something codified into one clear standard .

And not just what is done with a cocked die, but what dice count as cocked. Is a die half on an asteroid cocked? It it's not perfectly level, but it's pretty close to level...

i agree. i would be good. also, it's not necessary. would rather see clarifications on other things, like replacement effects whether han solos ability is a modification etc.. would still be good, though.

any dice not lying flat is cocked. in 99% of cases, its just at the edge of an asteroid or the mat, so it's heavily leaning towards a specific result. still reroll every time, just like everyone else i've played.

And what happens with dice that fall from the table? Is valid the result if they are flat?

And... Dum Dum Dum… What happens with cocked dice in the floor?

Do they get rerolled? And if so... Do they get rerolled in the table?... or in the floor?

There are certain procedures that aren't going to be spelled out in complete detail because there's absolutely no need. Rolling dice is one because it's such a common, well-understood procedure for randomly determining a result. We're also not told how to shuffle our damage deck. So what happens if I accidentally drop a card on the floor while shuffling? Do we all stand around staring at it, completely dumbfounded, until the slow, inevitable heat-death of the universe?

22 hours ago, meffo said:

any dice not lying flat is cocked. in 99% of cases, its just at the edge of an asteroid or the mat, so it's heavily leaning towards a specific result. still reroll every time, just like everyone else i've played.

I hadn't heard this view before this thread. We always just played if there was a clear result, the die was good.

I've certainly seen 'balance another die on it, if it falls, reroll it' as a rule, but I think these days I just reroll anything that's not flat.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I've certainly seen 'balance another die on it, if it falls, reroll it' as a rule, but I think these days I just reroll anything that's not flat.

The issue with that is you will spontaneously become better or worse at dice-balancing depend on what face is showing...

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I hadn't heard this view before this thread. We always just played if there was a clear result, the die was good.

"Reroll anything not perfectly flat" is the best floor rule to set with your opponent before a match, IMO, but it's not something you can assume without a verbal agreement beforehand.

yes. reroll any dice that is not perfectly flat or that doesn't stay on the table. i suppose everyone should always agree with their opponent before every game.

the fact that that is the best way to go about it actually makes it more desirable to have it in the rules.

for what its worth, i think rerolling the cocked die is the best way forward.

it just wasn't always in the rules, then ffg put it in the rules, and now its out again.

you cant say its perfectly safe to assume that its the proper procedure, because at one point ffg decided it was so unclear that it needed to be added to the game. As someone that has never played any table top games prior to x-wing, NO, rerolling any cocked die is not common knowledge.

the dice on the floor question is entirely solved by the same rule i am saying we need. it explicitly states that the die must land flat on the play surface. the floor is not the play surface.

1 hour ago, nikk whyte said:

the dice on the floor question is entirely solved by the same rule i am saying we need. it explicitly states that the die must land flat on the play surface. the floor is not the play surface.

Dice Trays are illegal!

17 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Dice Trays are illegal!

I hate dice trays, so this is fine.

1 hour ago, nikk whyte said:

for what its worth, i think rerolling the cocked die is the best way forward.

it just wasn't always in the rules, then ffg put it in the rules, and now its out again.

you cant say its perfectly safe to assume that its the proper procedure, because at one point ffg decided it was so unclear that it needed to be added to the game. As someone that has never played any table top games prior to x-wing, NO, rerolling any cocked die is not common knowledge.

the dice on the floor question is entirely solved by the same rule i am saying we need. it explicitly states that the die must land flat on the play surface. the floor is not the play surface.

And you still fail to say how you fix the situation without the rule

2 hours ago, muribundi said:

And you still fail to say how you fix the situation without the rule

how do you solve any issue at the table, numbnuts.

here's a fun parallel. several years ago, during a store championship, i forgot to set a dial. we got to PS 9 in the pilot skill for movement and then i realized no dial was set for my a-wing.

what do you do? there was no rule at the time for what happens when you fail to assign a dial to a ship. Do i get to set whatever maneuver i want, granting me a fresh maneuvering advantage? does my opponent get to set my dial, flying a full health a-wing off the table and almost surely handing me a Loss? what do you do?

if the answer isnt "call a judge, because they exist to help navigate situations the rules dont cover" then stop replying to this thread.

shortly after that, a rule for what happens when you forget to set a dial was set forth by ffg. Guess what else didn't make the transition to second edition?

On 2/26/2019 at 7:13 PM, Wiredin said:

if I die "squirts" out of your hand mid roll, do you pick it up and re roll or count it? also not in the rules, but gentleman agreement decided before the match.

Jupp. If something 'not intended' happens during a roll I just (shout) STOP and do it again properly.

On 2/26/2019 at 6:13 PM, Wiredin said:

if I die "squirts" out of your hand mid roll, do you pick it up and re roll or count it? also not in the rules, but gentleman agreement decided before the match.

Major peeve of mine!

we have one player in our group who is notorious for this. First time he rolled dice one slipped out of his hand as he picked them up. It was a blank, he picked it up and rolled it with the rest of the dice. Fair enough.

Later in the game he does the same thing, dropped dice is a crit. He keeps it!

Not cool.

7 hours ago, irishthump said:

Major peeve of mine!

we have one player in our group who is notorious for this. First time he rolled dice one slipped out of his hand as he picked them up. It was a blank, he picked it up and rolled it with the rest of the dice. Fair enough.

Later in the game he does the same thing, dropped dice is a crit. He keeps it!

Not cool.

I've witnessed a few players on "key rolls" seem to always have a die jump out of the hand for some reason.... sometimes they keep the result and let the rest fly sometimes they re-roll it.... hmmmmmm 😓

In a nutshell, the game currently has no set procedure with how to handle mis-rolls of any kind; dice off the play area or table, cocked dice of varying severity, dice falling out of player's hands (and selectively re-rolled or kept), players rolling dice one at a time versus all together, using dice trays or cups or towers, and so on, are undefined. Lacking clear regulations, players have to either use common sense (which arguably isn't common) and agree on how to handle such situations... or ask the Judge/TO to make their own decisions on how to handle the situations.

Are regulations needed? I don't think they're necessary, persay - most of the general, unspoken rules of tabletop games cover such situations. The problem is, they're unspoken rules, which means everyone is assumed to know them... which is clearly not the case. Unscrupulous players will always look for illicit advantages in a game, such as counting your cocked dice if they're beneficial, and rerolling if they're not.

Would regulations be helpful? Clearly, the fact that this thread has gone on so long means they would help, if only to remove any gray areas from the situation. Knowing what constitutes a legal dice throw (all dice tossed together, laying flat, directly on the play area) and what do do in any exceptions (reroll any individual die that is not flat on the play area) might be considered pointless minutiae to some players, but to others, it's just a clear ruling to account for odd occurrences.