Dear descent community!

Not long ago i started to prepare for our next descent family "ritual", so i checked some cards to create my strategy as an Overlord.

During this "deep tactical planning" i met some cards which i currently still have some doubt in connection with the interpretation .

First i submitted these questions via FFG rules questions - but i still waiting for the answer and it was approximately 1 month ago so I started to assume i will never get a response for that.

BUT

The game nights are coming!

Once again i have to call the help of the community rule wizards to help me out with this current situation!

These are the current questions, some of them might look like dumb but still question is a question.:

1. Laughing Bouldar (CK) heroic feat is the following: „Use as your entire activation to perform 3 attack actions. If you do, you cannot move this turn, not even by suffering Fatigue”

So the following is written: „use as your entire activation to perform…”

Q1: When is the exact triggering point of this heroic feat? When do i have to tell the other players: okay, i will use this feat! At the start of my turn or during my turn,right before i do my first action?

Basicly, as i assume this feat gives me an additional attack (not special action of course) during my turn and meanwhile it forbids to move from my corrent space.

2. On „Flee The Light” plot card ( Verminous – Unseen Legion) the following is written:

Skittish: Each time a hero within 3 spaces of this monster suffers 1 fatigue to gain 1 movement point, this monster immediately move 1 space.

Q2.: If a hero suffers 2 fatiuge in the same time to gain two movement points, may a monster move 2 spaces or it could move just one space?

3. Splig ability is the following: „Not Me!”: „Each time Splig is attacked, before the dice are rolled, test his Awareness. If he passes, a monster adjacent to him becomes the target of the attack. Range and line of sight are still measured to Splig's space.”

Q3.: When splig is affected by an attack, not targeted, may he use this ability (for example: when the Giant uses his sweep ability)?

Q4.: Like in the case of „protect” ability, May i use „Not Me!” if the other monster is targeted by the same attack, So in the same time there are two valid target which are affected by the same attack and by using Not me! the attack from splig is directed to the other monster.

4. Ignoble Sacrifice plot card (Verminous – Unseen Legion): „Use this card when more than 1 monster in a monster group is affected by an attack. Before damage is dealt, choose 1 monster affected by the attack. That monster suffers all damage all other monsters in it’s group would suffer from that attack.

Q5: May i use this card on 2 different monster groups when they are affected from the same attack?

Q6: May i use this card/trigger it in the „spending surge” step of a combat or i can only do this if a surge effect causes additinal affected monsters from the same group. (In this way i can spare my treath token and the attack could be a miss.)

5. In a Two player Game the following is written: „At the end of each hero's turn, if that hero did not or could not perform the free attack during his turn, he may instead recover 2 heart.”

Q7:If a hero is knocked out, does he has to stand up at the end of his turn even if he does not want to because he must recover 2 hearts at the end of his turn by this effect?

6. „Bloodline” ( Endles Thirst- Lady Eliza Farrow) and „Fealty” (Fist Legion - Ardus Ix’ Erebus) plot cards

Bloodline:

„Exhaust this card during your turn to choose two monsters. One monster suffers 2 Heart and the other monster recovers 1 Heart. If both monsters have the Dark monster trait, the monster suffering Heart suffers 1 fewer Heart.”

Fealty:

„Exhaust this card at the end of your turn. While this card is exhausted, each time a master monster or lieutenant is affected by an attack, after dice are rolled, you may choose 1 SMALL minion monster adjacent to that master monster or lieutenant to suffer 5 Heart. If you do, add 2 Shield to that master monster or lieutenant's defense results.”

Q8: in these cases may i exhaust the plot card if the chosen monster would be defeated in this way and this leads to the chosen monster could not suffer the necessary amount of damage which is written on the cards (Bloodline 2 dmg, Fealty 5 dmg) because it exceeds it’s health.

Must they suffer exectly this amount?

7. Lord Merick Farrow „Aftershock” ability („Aftershock: When an adjacent hero attacks this monster, after the attack is resolved, the hero must test Willpower. If he fails, he suffers 1 Fatigue”)

Q9: If Merick is defeated by this attack, does the hero has to test his willpower anyway? I assume this because the triggering event was „when an adjacent hero attacks this monster”.

8. Grey Kel (CK) hero ability says the following: „If you perform only 1 action on your turn, then later this round you may take a second turn, during which you receive only 1 action. Your second turn must be taken after a hero's turn and before the overlord's turn.”

Q10:So as RAW will i have 2 full turn in 1 round? So i can refresh my exhausted cards and i can use it again as i assume.

Thank you for your answer!

1. Start of your turn.

2. Two spaces. This is because fatigue to gain movement points is resolved one at a time, though in practice players grab handfuls of fatigue at a time.

3. I would say no, because the phrase “...becomes the target instead” strongly implies Splig must have been the target.

4. I say yes, due to a previous ruling involving the Knight’s Defend vs. merriod’s Flail. I believe this ruling applies because “Not Me” is essentially reverse Defend. https://boardgamegeek.com/article/11184749#11184749

5. I don’t know. (Edit) Upon looking at the card, I say a tentative yes, except you would need to pay the threat cost for each monster group you intend to use the card on.

For 6, abilities that just say “When you attack/perform an attack” default to the “after dice are rolled” step. (See Rune Mastery and/or Conversion Kit Nanok’s feat). So if you’re spending surges, it’s too late.

Both my answers to 5 and 6 are tentative. I welcome any thoughts on those.

7. The word “may” means he chooses whether or not to recover the damage. So no, he is not forced to stand.

8. No. Terrify the heroes with your heartlessness. 🙂

8. Grey Ker actually doesn’t get a second turn. He’s just pausing after his first action. His hero card from Treaty Of Champions reflects this, and a FFG answer clarified this before he was updated.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/11001202#11001202

Happy playing!

On 2/25/2019 at 9:48 AM, Lightningclaw said:

8. No. Terrify the heroes with your heartlessne  ss. 🙂

Thank you for you answer!

I agree with all you have written down, but i have doubt with this and i tell you why:

At Bloodline in the CRFG 1.13 the following is written:

A monster with a remaining Health of less than 2 dmg cannot be chosen to suffer 2 dmg.

so as it looks like in this case they must suffer the exact amount.

but it brings up a question:

What about for example "Call of the Raven" overlord card?

"Exhaust this card at the start of your turn and choose 1 monster. Place 1 Raven Flock Servant token in a space adjacent to that monster. Then, that monster suffers 4 dmg ."

and with all the related situations, in these cases the choosen monster must suffer the exact amount? ( it would be quite irritating...)

AND

you miss the question which is in connection with Merrick Farrow Q9 to be precise.

1 hour ago, Straangeer said:

Thank you for you answer!

I agree with all you have written down, but i have doubt with this and i tell you why:

At Bloodline in the CRFG 1.13 the following is written:

A monster with a remaining Health of less than 2 dmg cannot be chosen to suffer 2 dmg.

so as it looks like in this case they must suffer the exact amount.

but it brings up a question:

What about for example "Call of the Raven" overlord card?

"Exhaust this card at the start of your turn and choose 1 monster. Place 1 Raven Flock Servant token in a space adjacent to that monster. Then, that monster suffers 4 dmg ."

and with all the related situations, in these cases the choosen monster must suffer the exact amount? ( it would be quite irritating...)

AND

you miss the question which is in connection with Merrick Farrow Q9 to be precise.

I do not know why Bloodlines works that way. A quick google search didn’t yield any discussion about it. However, I would go with the CRRG here- I must be wrong.

Perhaps it is because the 2 hearts is a cost to using Bloodlines rather than an effect.

For Call Of The Ravens, I am certain it can be used on monsters with fewer than 4 health. The damage is a result of using Call of The Ravens, not a cost (I define a cost as something paid/suffered before the ability is resolved).

if Call Of The Ravens read “Exhaust this card at the start of your turn and choose a monster. That monster suffers 4 damage and you may place 1 Raven Flock Servant in an empty space adjacent to that monster.”

Then yes, you would not be able to kill a monster with it. As it’s actually written I believe you can certainly kill monsters with it.

For Q9, I say no, since Merick would be dead and no longer on the map when the attack resolves. I’d say the same for Andira Runehand’s ability if she is killed by an attack.

On 3/4/2019 at 10:00 PM, Lightningclaw said:

For Q9, I say no, since Merick would be dead and no longer on the map when the attack resolves. I’d say the same for    Andira Runehand’s ability if she is killed by an attack.

I am pretty sure that Andira Runehand ability will be resolved before she is knocked out by the attack.

This ability is activated in the DEAL DAMAGE step(5) of combat.

I copied this fron CRFG 1.13"

“Damage suffered” is determined after damage is dealt in this step. It specifies the number of damage a figure or token must place nearby or on its card. This is often equal to “damage dealt” but can be modified by certain skills (e.g.
Jain Fairwood's Hero ability).

Jain Fairwood hero ability:

When you suffer any amount of from an attack, you may choose to suffer some or all of that amount as instead; you cannot suffer in excess of your stamina.

She's ability is pretty similar to Andria and she can save herself with this BEFORE knocked out.

The other reason why i think this is the following:

At the same time 2 different effect is happening:

Damage suffered up to her health: Knocked Out.

Damage suffered: Triggered Andria Hero ability.

The active player must decide how to resolve these effects in order.

And I must draw the consequence that these effects (if able) must be played.

In connection with Bloodline, Call of the Raven, Fealthy:

I think the whole wording is not unambiguous in the case of MUST suffer the exact amount or not.

They should have written that they MUST suffer x damages or somehow explain it an other way to make it clear.

I have to disagree here. When a figure has damage tokens equal to its Health on its card, it is immediately defeated and removed from the map as a consequence. Thus, the monster that attacked Andira is no longer within 3 spaces of her and her Hero ability cannot trigger.

3 hours ago, Sadgit said:

I have to disagree here. When a figure has damage tokens equal to its Health on its card, it is immediately defeated and removed from the map as a consequence. Thus, the monster that attacked Andira is no longer within 3 spaces of her and her Hero ability cannot trigger.

Andria Runehand hero ability: Each time a hero within 3 spaces of you suffers 1 or more damage from an attack, the figure that performed the attack suffers 1 damage.

Jain Fairwood hero ability: When you suffer any amount of from an attack, you may choose to suffer some or all of that amount as instead; you cannot suffer in excess of your stamina.

4 hours ago, Straangeer said:

“Damage suffered” is determined after damage is dealt in this step. It specifies the number of damage a figure or token must place nearby or on its card. This is often equal to “damage dealt” but can be modified by certain skills (e.g.
Jain Fairwood 's Hero ability).

These abilities have the same effect timing it is clearly stated that "when you(or other hero in Runehand case) suffer damage".

The OVERLORD attacked the hero (runehand or fairwood)

we are at DEAL DAMAGE step and the attacked hero would suffer damage equal of her health! (Runehand or Fairwood)

If Runehand could not use her ability because she is knocked out so she is not on the map, i am pretty sure Fairwood could not use her's because she would not be on the map either.

SO

How could you differentate the two HERO ability?

That's an excellent question, and a proper answer will require some thought.

My opinion on this:

Jain Fairwood's heroic ability is a special case which allows you to interrupt between the Deal Damage and Suffer Damage steps of combat. For clarity it should probably be worded as "When you would suffer any amount...", but never mind...

Andira Runehand's isn't an interrupt, it just triggers after the Suffer Damage step, therefore if she is knocked out during the Suffer Damage step her ability will not trigger.

On 3/10/2019 at 12:58 PM, Xyphistor said:

My opinion on this:

Jain Fairwood 's heroic ability is a special case which allows you to interrupt between the Deal Damage and Suffer Damage steps of combat. For clarity it should probably be worded as "When you would suffer any amount...", but never mind...

Andira Runehand 's isn't an interrupt, it just triggers after the Suffer Damage step, therefore if she is knocked out during the Suffer Damage step her ability will not trigger.

I disagree

In Jain Fairwood's case there is no hint of that it happens between the Deal Damage and Suffer Damage steps it is cleary written : when you suffer any amount of damage...the effect happen.

1. Effect happen - suffering damage from an attack.
2. Use your ability - try to save herself from knock out.

In Andira Runehand's case: Each time a hero within 3 spaces of you suffer 1 or more damage ... the effect happen.

1. Effect happen - suffering damage from attack.
2. Use your ability - the attacker suffer 1 damage.

So if i the overlord player (the active player) decide the timing between:

1. Hero player suffers damage so she is immediately knocked out so unable to use her hero ability to save herself.
2. Hero player plays out his ability.

I can accept a consistent argument, but i don't see a differene between the abilites text, in this case, neither of them should use their ability if the overlord decide the timing.