Pretty much my question is what the topic says.

In my game a group is going around kidnapping psykers. I need the players to realize this, and I don't do combat very often, so I figured this would be a good opportunity to create a fight.

The PCs aren't very high rank (3 I want to say) and the intent was to have the PCs defeat the attempt and be clued into the idea that someone is going after psykers.

I'd hate to resort to extremely exotic methods (hexagrammic wards on armor & the ilk). Sedation, stunning, and other options like that would be far more likely. The antagonists are moderately successful with low-level psykers (the type who would probably be sacrificed to the golden throne), and arrogance makes them think they can go after a sanctioned psyker. Think of them as gangers equipped and "trained" to bag weak psykers to be delivered somewhere else.

So I guess my question is: How would you represent a realistic attempt to nab the psyker in a PC group without it actually being successful necessarily?

TheFlatline said:

Dose him either via a Hypo Pistol ( IHB page 110 and 120) or a Needle weapon with a custom drug load. I recommend using either Somna ( IHB page 130) or Torpor ( IHB page 194). Somna injected via a needle round would probably be the best method, as it induces a deathlike state on the subject that would be hard to identify as a drug-induced effect.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

Awesome. I have the IHB too. I'll plunder that. I've marked it off limits to players by and large, so it'll be something new. The gun itself will stand out from the rest of the setting.

Hi Flatline,

the advise given by BrotherPraetus is probably the best. But in addition to needle weapons and sleep-inducing drugs, make sure that your "snatchers" come equip with batons (probably shock-batons) and the "Take down" talent (or what was this talent that allows for stunning your victim?). After all, their will be those victims that will not quick enough...

And have solid backs and handcuffs with them. A lot of psyker powers seem to intend that a psyker can see a target. A minor (Zeta?) psyker (lacking other means of detections then his eyes or simply training and wits) might be at odds if he cannot see anything anymore. "Back over the head" goes a long way there.

it might be helpfull to drug the "snatchers" as well. Something that raises Willpower could be usefull, which could be "explained" by something like "drug messes with the brain receptors". As a "draw back" the drug could lower the intelligence. Which will could to very funny interrogations sessions afterward. Think "The Spirit", if you know the movie. Make sure that not everyone is on the drug, so! Having a coordinator "staying back, but in line of sight" might be helpfull. This one would be "first to flee" as things go wrong... which gives you the chance to include a chase scene for your pc, if you like.

I would have to know how tough this psycher in question is?Beta?Gamma?

miles1739 said:

His char sheet says he picked up psy rating 2. He's not super strong. If he was I wouldn't worry about it.

I think I'll use the juice the Inquisitors use in the Black Ships. It's an excellent thread into a heretic element inside the Inquisition I was going to play with anyway down the line. I'll that little nugget of paranoia into the back of their heads and let it mull there for 5 or 10 more sessions before bringing it more to the forefront.

So we have one guy drugging the psyker, we have maybe 4 or 5 gangers with conventional weapons to suppress or take out the non-psyker PCs, and we have 2-3 gangers with stun batons & takedown to make sure they can nab the psyker if the drugs don't take him out completely.

That actually sounds like a serious enough threat that the group will go overboard and kill everyone to save their own sweet butts. Which is fine, I don't want them getting too much information too fast.

I'll post a follow up tonight or tomorrow on how today's session goes throwing that in.

TheFlatline said:

You are making a major mistake. You underestimate your players . Better prepare for them to to "take the last one alive".

my two cents

If they spesialise in capturing Psykers, why don't you just make one of them a untuchable? They after all putt a damper on or compeatly stops the use of psychic power around them. And they have no warp signature, so the psyker won't be able to psychicly sense him eather.

I expect the psyker would be able to sense the 'void' surrounding a blank. Though if they've never encountered one before they'd probably have no idea what it actually was other than a feeling that something very bad is nearby.

Actually my character did basically that to another players character. To be clear my character is an adept with 41 WP and resistance to psychic powers.

Here's what happened..

The other players character (the psyker in question) decided to use her powers to try to "kidnap" a cleric. My adept seeing the psyker was off to do something and with past experiences decides whatever she does will not be good for the team. So I try to stop her. Basically after flashbanging the mob, then causing everything to go black, and starting a riot, I finally wrangle the psyker down and manage to put her over my shoulder. The psyker being mad at this point attacks my adept mentally. Which does not work (I rolled good).

Basically a decent willpower and some resistance works in the favor (at least for telepaths) of the kidnapper.

Oh and on a side note: The psyker is currently unconcious chained up with the groups assassin ready to cap her. My adept due to the mental assault has gained orthoproxy, strong minded and now has a psy rating of 1.

Blunters (AKA "Untouchables") are more or less on equal footing with hen's teeth as far as availability is concerned, so that is hardly the tool of a wytch-hunter on a budget. Besides Hypo and Needle guns, shock mauls and some good police-brutality mob tactics there are some simple yet effective techniques available. Since most psykers can sense other people around them it is a little complicated to sneak up on one when they are isolated behind guards or other protective barriers... So hit them while they are in a crowded area. Sure, they sense plenty, but chances are they are rather overwhelmed with data and will miss the hunters mixed in with all the pedestrians. All that instant mob-chaos is likewise good for covering a hasty getaway, both because it is hard to chase someone through such a scene and because all those scrambling feet are sure to obliterate almost any useful evidence you might leave behind for someone to come looking for you later. Then as soon as possible blindfold them, baffle their ears, bind their body and drug them senseless.

But say you lacked the resources to go for the traditional thugging option. What to do? Well, if you are a charismatic rabble-rouser then you can use random passers-by as your unwitting pawns: Start loudly preaching the Imperial Creed in a convincing manner, then at a suitably dramatic moment in the oratory, point at the psyker and condemn them as a wytch! "Bring the filthy wytch before me, that he might face the Emperor's judgement! And he must be alive, so that he may repent for his many and lurid sins. Go forth and do His will, loyal sons of the Emperor!"

This may be a bit too "high tech" for your concept but I remember, in a past discussion on catching/containing psykers for the Black Ships, someone bringing out the concept of a "Null Hound."

The Null Hound was basically a cyber-mastiff designed to track down rogue psykers like a bloodhound. It could be used anywhere from individually, to coupled with a handler, or in a small formation of hounds to blackbag an unwitting psyker who was tipped off to the authorities.

For extra nastiness, add drug injectors to its jaws. With Torpor.

If they spesialise in capturing Psykers, why don't you just make one of them a untuchable? They after all putt a damper on or compeatly stops the use of psychic power around them. And they have no warp signature, so the psyker won't be able to psychicly sense him eather.

That sounds suspiciously like "I want to murder someone. How should I do it? Ah, I'll poison him with... polonium!"
The chance of a human manifesting Untouchable powers were once given as 1:1,000,000,000,000 - as rare among psykers as psykers are among normal people. They certainly aren't wasted on hunting low-level psykers.

If the untuchable was found by a gang of cultists, or som other criminal organisation, before the empire, then he could be used to there advantage. For exampel getting rid of pesky psycker acolites, or kidnapping psyckers and use the for there own winning. No mater how rare they are, ther is always a possability, no mather how slim, that somthing like thatt happens.

Another thought as to a possible way to kidnap a psyker would be to send a Quad. Much like to the confessor hunters in the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Make one with high willpower another with high agility and the other two however you want. That way the psyker may be overwhelmed and taken down quickly and maybe with little to no trouble. Just another thought on the matter.

Tempeste said:

The psyker has to test Psyniscience to determine if something out of the ordinary is going on around him/her (other psykers, daemonic powers manifested, 'blanks', etc.). It's a full-round action to test Psy, not an "always-on" sense like Awareness. (p. 105 Dark Heresy)

neoanderthal said:

It actually says any attempt to detect nulls fails. It just fails.

The group I am GMing for includes one null and let me tell you people... RAW makes them pretty **** hard customers. Really. At very low rank I've seen this single untouchable assassin take out high-level sorcerer, several demons and such armed with nothing but autogun and mesh vest. With a full party they'll easily pound down several demons or any psyker I can plausibly throw their way.

I'm happy the way it is, because untouchables are supposed to be one-in-million things and this one is the only one they've seen in the whole campaign so far. It also presents the acolytes a little dilemma when facing infernal powers. They know they can kill things that would be almost undefeatable to them if they put their null to front line in the worst places... But then again if they do that they run a higher chance of losing their null and getting shafted. The one time they went to hunt some demons without the null being there... Well, it was a painfull reminder ending with lost limbs, emptied fate-point pools and lots of insanity and corruption for everyone.

In any case as for using nulls as NPCs, consider yourself warned. Unless you really want to kill an acolyte psyker do not include a null. The hypodermic needles, drugs and shok-mauls scheme works nicely and probably makes for a lot more down-to-earth, plausible and enjoyable encounter.

Having been both a player and a GM the easiest way ive found is with an untouchable (assassin class-from fringeworld or other such easy to explain why they havent been found yet by the Inquisition ) with a web gun for the ranged strike and a hypogun or other such tranq type effecting weapon/chemical delivered at close range once the target has been bagged. ( youll find that its extremely rare for anyone to care if a psyker gets taken by force anywhere due to the general resentment and mistrust/suspicion of common folk )..added any smart assassin worth the name or anyone with common sense would have the rest of their crew on station to play as lookouts to prevent any unwanted attention...in addition they would wait till the psyker is alone or as close to alone as possible ( like when they are asleep in their room..perfect time for a null assassin to sneak in and hypo them with a dose of tranq and webbing