I've been playing a lot of Hyperspace games with FO as a preparation for the future hyperspace trials coming soon. I've tried a bunch of list with small variations, but the core of my list is usually Kylo Ren - Hate, Advanced Optic / Quickdraw - Fanatical, FCS, SpecialForceGunner.
On paper, I feel like the list should work, but i've been unable to win any game at all with this! Maybe I just need more practice, but after 6 or 7 games it's beginning to be a bit frustrating. Should I just drop this list archetype, or is something in there I just need to change that would make it better?

My list usually looks like this :

https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v5!s!236:204,186,-1,-1:;243:181,-1,-1,182,113,165:;285:181,-1,182,-1,-1,-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

The filler ship seemed solid to me. Usually I try to joust with Quickdraw + Omega together. 6 red dice is not a lot, but there's 12 health to go through. If they target QD, an extra attack is coming their way, if they attack Omega, there's more chance that QD will last until the end of the match.

Mostly, I feel like the list just don't punch enough damage. I was used to playing 2 phantom with juke + filler, and even though they only had 3 red dice each, juke made them do way more damage in the end.

I though of using Quickdraw with juke, FCS, Special force gunner, and Muse with Squad Leader, to serves as a coordinate fuel for the evade for quickdraw. So she starts the engagement with evade + Target Lock, and can do a lot of damage, more if she shoots twice. But muse as that point just don't deal any damage at all, so I feel like it's a very expansive gimmick.

Thoughts?

I have been seeing people talking about and using Elusive on Quickdraw as a way to help limit shield loss and, given the red maneuvers on the SF's dial, it should be fairly easy to regain that charge to use it again. Fanatical just takes too long to get useful on an SF, but it works wonders on regular FOs. Maybe go for one of those as your third ship? I am starting to love the idea of Midnight with Fanatical and Hull Upgrade myself. Kylo looks solid, though you could upgrade to Pattern Analyzer if you find that you have a spare point to use.

The thing is that, elusive on quickdraw, automatically makes me want to take Pattern Analyzer, so it's a 6 points upgrade from just fanatical. Is it worth it? Maybe if I either switch the omega generic to a Zeta generic without EPT? Is it worth it?

QD (Elusive, PA, FCS, SpecGun), Kylo (Hate, AdOps) and Midnight (Fanatical, AdOps) is probably the purest FO aces list out there. Balanced in terms of survivability and offense, maneuverable.

I went 2-2 with this list at a tournament last weekend. Only I had FCS on Omega and no Hate on Kylo. I don’t think Hate is essential. I lost one game due to time/mov. Other loss was vs YYXXX and he just flew it perfectly. He was a great formation flyer and I didn’t approach him correctly at the start. So it’s a viable list. I’m going to experiment with replacing Omega with Muse + squad leader to see if that coordinate makes better use than another heavy hitter.

Here you go:

(45) "Quickdraw"
(10) Special Forces Gunner
(6) Shield Upgrade
(2) Fire-Control System
(3) Elusive
(5) Pattern Analyzer
Points 71

(35) "Scorch"
(2) Fanatical
(4) Advanced Optics
Points 41

(76) Kylo Ren
(3) Hate
(4) Advanced Optics
Points 83

Total points: 195

Gets in a Tankier QD and still gives you a 3 die attack with Scorch.

I think Muse with Squad Leader is better as "filler" ship

TIE/sf Fighter - •“Quickdraw” - 67
•“Quickdraw” - Defiant Duelist (45)
Juke (5)
Fire-Control System (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Pattern Analyzer (5)

TIE/fo Fighter - •“Muse” - 38
•“Muse” - Epsilon Leader (32)
•Squad Leader (6)

TIE/vn Silencer - •Kylo Ren - 92
•Kylo Ren - Tormented Apprentice (76)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Advanced Optics (4)

Total: 197/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

22 hours ago, kempokid said:

I went 2-2 with this list at a tournament last weekend. Only I had FCS on Omega and no Hate on Kylo. I don’t think Hate is essential. I lost one game due to time/mov. Other loss was vs YYXXX and he just flew it perfectly. He was a great formation flyer and I didn’t approach him correctly at the start. So it’s a viable list. I’m going to experiment with replacing Omega with Muse + squad leader to see if that coordinate makes better use than another heavy hitter.

Is Kylo's Pilot ability worth it? Otherwise you could save 15% or more by switching to, not Geico, but Recoil or blackout. then you get EPTs and more points to play with the rest of your squad.

2nd observation (much less opinionated) is that Elusive + Pattern Analyzer is an excellent synergistic combo that saves you a couple points and keeps quick tanky. My mods to your list:

Just now, Glattyator said:

Is Kylo's Pilot ability worth it? Otherwise you could save 15% or more by switching to, not Geico, but Recoil or blackout. then you get EPTs and more points to play with the rest of your squad.

From all the time i've played it, Kylo basically has no pilot ability. It does come up sometimes that you might want to blinded pilot a boba or someone with lots of health, but usually it doesn't really matter too much. It certainly won't prevent someone from shooting Kylo, like, say, QD.

What he does have is a huge bargain on force point. If the force is costed to around 10 points, Kylo functionnaly gets a second force point for 2 points. Loosing EPT for Force Power is pretty much equal, but that might change with eventual release.

7 minutes ago, DarthSempai said:

From all the time i've played it, Kylo basically has no pilot ability. It does come up sometimes that you might want to blinded pilot a boba or someone with lots of health, but usually it doesn't really matter too much. It certainly won't prevent someone from shooting Kylo, like, say, QD.

What he does have is a huge bargain on force point. If the force is costed to around 10 points, Kylo functionnaly gets a second force point for 2 points. Loosing EPT for Force Power is pretty much equal, but that might change with eventual release.

Solid math, initial reaction to this post is that with the ships ability, having an awesome dial, and with a coordinating ship. Force tokens didn't have their usual appeal to me with the action econ already there. Late game when Kylo is the only one left that be handy to have.

2 hours ago, DarthSempai said:

From all the time i've played it, Kylo basically has no pilot ability. It does come up sometimes that you might want to blinded pilot a boba or someone with lots of health, but usually it doesn't really matter too much. It certainly won't prevent someone from shooting Kylo, like, say, QD.

What he does have is a huge bargain on force point. If the force is costed to around 10 points, Kylo functionnaly gets a second force point for 2 points. Loosing EPT for Force Power is pretty much equal, but that might change with eventual release.

Yep this, only time to use the ability is when you’re only defending and you know you’ll get the force recharge right back.

Two force tokens stacked with something like Adv Optics means you can usually hit hard while keeping some mods for defense, which is great on a 3/3 ship. Then of course i5 with potential for a force upgrade makes him nice too depending on the rest of your build.

Tried this tonight.

I flew up in the face on opponent with Malarius who soaked up all dmg round 2 and 3. Then an ace hunted him to a corner other side of the board, while QD was brawling in the middle with some ranges backup from Kylo who kept modding 3 hits.

Kylos Quick Commander

(45) "Quickdraw"
(10) Special Forces Gunner
(2) Fanatical
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Afterburners
(5) Pattern Analyzer
Points 70

(76) Kylo Ren
(4) Advanced Optics
(3) Hate
Points 83

(41) Commander Malarus
(3) Elusive
Points 44

Total points: 197

I like this tanky Malarus a lot

On 3/12/2019 at 1:35 AM, Amc879 said:

I like this tanky Malarus a lot

Yepp, he is really worth his points!

This is what im gona try tomorrow.

Powertrio

(45) "Quickdraw" [TIE/sf Fighter]
(10) Special Forces Gunner
(2) Fanatical
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 59

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]
(3) Hate
Points: 79

(62) Lieutenant Tavson [Upsilon-class command shuttle]
Points: 62

Total points: 200

On 3/12/2019 at 12:35 AM, Amc879 said:

I like this tanky Malarus a lot

Indeed. Despite being "just a TIE fighter" she can take a ridiculous amount of killing, which is good when you've got a unit which needs a distraction to allow it to flank, like Kylo.

On 2/21/2019 at 9:35 AM, HandlarzMirek said:

I think Muse with Squad Leader is better as "filler" ship

TIE/sf Fighter - •“Quickdraw” - 67
•“Quickdraw” - Defiant Duelist (45)
Juke (5)
Fire-Control System (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Pattern Analyzer (5)

TIE/fo Fighter - •“Muse” - 38
•“Muse” - Epsilon Leader (32)
•Squad Leader (6)

TIE/vn Silencer - •Kylo Ren - 92
•Kylo Ren - Tormented Apprentice (76)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Advanced Optics (4)

Total: 197/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I agree. I managed to squeeze QD, Kylo, muse and a 4th TIE FO into a team. Muse with squad leader us really handy to give QD a lock and focus or to make Kylo take 4 actions.