Any Phases to save people from death?

By MechaJeff, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

There are several cards with Any Phase: Kneel Influence or do something to return this character or a friendly character to your hand. Examples are the new Ghost, the House Dayne Reserves, and, I think its called, Targaryen Summer Camp.

If I choose one of these characters to die, while in Moribund, can I activate their ability to return them to my hand, thereby saving them?

MechaJeff said:

If I choose one of these characters to die, while in Moribund, can I activate their ability to return them to my hand, thereby saving them?

No, for a couple of reasons.

First - and really foremost - is that when an effect kills a card, it must resolve completely before any other effect can be played. In short, when a Marshaling, Challenges, Any Phase, or Framework (like revealing plots or resolving a challenge) effect is triggered, it must be completely resolved before any player can trigger another one. So if I win a military challenge against you, the claim effect will resolve and kill your character completely before you have a chance to trigger your "Any Phase" return-to-hand effect. Once a killing effect is initiated, only a RESPONSE effect that uses the word "save" or "cancel" can stop it from killing the chosen character. Basic timing of the game: an "Any Phase" effect cannot get around a killing effect that has already been triggered.

Keep in mind that you could use an "Any Phase" effect to take the card out of play before the killing effect is triggered, but that just means a different character will be targeted by the kill effect.

Second - when a card is moribund, the rules prohibit you from using an effect that would try to remove the character from play a second time. If a character is killed, you cannot return it to hand while it is in the "moribund:killed" state. Now, there are some effects that will allow you to change the moribund state the card is in - effectively changing the card from "moribund:killed" to "moribund:return-to-hand," but these effects do not say "choose a character and return it to hand;" they say something like "after a character is killed, return it to your hand instead of putting it in your dead pile." The important word there is "instead," and it will always be a Response. (As an example, look at the event card Retreat.)

Thanks.

I think a part of our problem we have when playing is struggling to understand when you can play cards with things like Any Phase, or Challenges, etc.

Can they be played during other actions? Could you, I dunno, lets say player X challenges player Y. Could player Z interrupt them in the middle of their challenge with something like, uh, A Game of Cyvasse to force people to kneel and remove characters, etc?

The timing really confuses me on when things can be played.

Have you looked at the timing charts in the FAQ ? The detailed explanation of timing there is pretty good.

When you do, you'll see boxes marked "Player Actions" in each phase. When the game progresses to a Player Action window, all players take turns (starting with the First Player - not the Active Player in Marshaling and Challenges) triggering actions with the corresponding phase name (or "Any Phase"). When one is triggered, you resolve it completely. You cannot interrupt anything in this game - except with a Response effect that uses the word "save" or "cancel."

Now, the anatomy of a challenge specifically looks like this:

1. Player Actions
2. Framework: Active Player announces challenge type, person they are attacking and designates/kneels attacking characters.
3. Player Actions.
4. Framework: Active/Attacking player assigns Stealth targets and Defending player designates/kneels defending characters.
5. Player Actions.
6. Framework: Challenge is resolved (ie, determine winner, resolve claim effects, award unopposed bonus, award power for Renown).

All players take turns triggering Challenge/Any Phase effects in steps 1, 3 and 5, whether they are the attacking/defending players or not.