https://nathanxwing.home.blog/2019/02/20/make-dengar-great-again/

Not bad, I appreciate the creativity. I take one serious issue with it though. You say it turns right worse than a Lambda. I strenuously disagree. At least you have multiple hard turns! And your 3 banks aren’t red either.

So now I am forced to destroy you. Sorry!

7 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Not bad, I appreciate the creativity. I take one serious issue with it though. You say it turns right worse than a Lambda. I strenuously disagree. At least you have multiple hard turns! And your 3 banks aren’t red either.

So now I am forced to destroy you. Sorry!

The Lambda has a blue bank, it's able to keep turning after a hard turn. I think that's pretty important. It is open to a bit of personal opinion on which turns worse though

How has Dengar been in your games so far? If not yet decent, what does he need (R4? Crew slot?)?

That's a cool alt-frame. Did you make it?

Or, you know, not, wanna-be-not-as-good-as-Han.

3 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

How has Dengar been in your games so far? If not yet decent, what does he need (R4? Crew slot?)?

That's a cool alt-frame. Did you make it?

He's been decent, I can get a couple of good passes in, then his dial traps him awfully, probably need a little more practice. I think he needs a good upgrade card for dice mods, best case passive mods. A crew slot for a force user (Maul) or Perceptive copilot would be good, or a new Talent/Astromech. Or Glitterstims coming back.

The Dengar alt art is an FFG one from the Coruscant Invitational last year. The Lego Expert Handling is my own design.

I have to admit I am one of the few survivors who didn't become a Dengar haters during 1.0, firstly to clear things up I NEVER played with Dengeroo or the triple scouts. Right now let's talk, we all have to agree that a dial like his as cool as it is being asymmetrical its a massive disadvantage not just for manouverability but also for predictability. To go a step further the mobile arc got the biggest nerf in the whole of 2.0 as it doesn't have a primary front arc or a bow tie arc. Unlike the Hwk it's title increases the dice of just the front without a set front arc. I'll stop chatting **** and get onto actual stuff.

Personally I've played Dengar between 10-20 times now and I have resulted to r3 and the title, I did have quite a few games with Manaroo and perceptive Co pilot next to Dengar and it worked a little bit but not super. Maybe as newer torps come along they will help the JM5K out such as plasma torps. I can imagine a cheap list with Dengar, plasma torpedoes, L337, saying that I think Tel with plasma, L3 or maybe perceptive Co pilot and hull upgrade would be better as after you get your torp shots off just do focus rotate arc.

At the moment I can't imagine taking him to a tourney if I'm honest. If interested this is may Dengeroo list:

(58) Dengar
(8) Punishing One
(3) R3 Astromech
Points 69

(47) Manaroo
(8) Perceptive Copilot
Points 55

(63) Guri
(10) Advanced Sensors
Points 73

Total points: 197

If you prefer you can swap Fenn in for Guri and add Adv. Proton torpedoes to Manaroo (which works quite nicely)

To make the JM5K competitive I think the best move would be to give it a extra crew slot. Done. With the title you get crew and astromech so L3 and R3 ( 😂 haha PS4 controller)or without you can have L3 and Co pilot.

Nice article, one thing I haven’t seen discussed is how to proc Dengars ability - list building and positioning choices to encourage the opponent to shoot dengar instead of avoiding him - despite his ini6 I don’t think he’s a super great end game ship due to dial and front arc locked nature.

The Dengar alt-art doesn't have turret anymore?

13 minutes ago, Polynomial-C said:

The Dengar alt-art doesn't have turret anymore?

Didn't notice that! Let's hope the physical copies are correct. Good job FFG!

On 2/20/2019 at 12:09 AM, Hawkstrike said:

Or, you know, not, wanna-be-not-as-good-as-Han.

This all over. The 1300 is almost strictly better even taking p1 into account.

I've said it in several discussions, any two of the five or so fixes applied to the JM would have been fine but all of them together make it an unplayable mess, probably unfixably so with just cost changes.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

This all over. The 1300 is almost strictly better even taking p1 into account.

I've said it in several discussions, any two of the five or so fixes applied to the JM would have been fine but all of them together make it an unplayable mess, probably unfixably so with just cost changes.

The Jumpmaster will never be a solid ship with 1 or 2 wingmates. They have been demoted to a support or side ship unfortunately probably when it's cost is reduced again in 6 months it will be in lists with 3 or 4 backstabbing partners.

It will never be a solid ship at all. It is too bad.

16 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It will never be a solid ship at all. It is too bad.

I'd consider taking 7 and Drea with dorsal turret if that fits 😂

*it will never be solid unless it's so cheap as to be broken. At which pint it will be broken, and not solid.

Like, pricing for 5 of them would be too much, but four is probably never going to be worthwhile.

And as long as Dengar costs more than Han he's still going to be awful.

I still think there's some potential for the JumpMaster to be usable. The thing is that people are looking at Dengar as a finisher. If he's the bait, he can allow a friend or two to get into position. I'm interested in seeing how my current double-JM list fares in games against others for a while, just to see if I can make the unplayable playable again.

@K13R4N said "To make the JM5K competitive I think the best move would be to give it a extra crew slot. Done. With the title you get crew and astromech so L3 and R3 ( 😂 haha PS4 controller)or without you can have L3 and Co pilot."

This would be a good change, I think, because it would then become, I think, the ONLY Scum ship that would have that particular combination, which would fit with Legends lore. Of course, it would make the title overpowered again - part of the reason FFG tore the ship apart through successive nerfs and FAQs was because the title gave it too much power, I think. I also think that @thespaceinvader nailed it above - too many fixes made too much of a mess.

An alternative fix, IMO, would include adding a Gunner slot instead of a crew slot, so when flying without the title, you get a 2-dice primary single-arc turret that can benefit from some mods and double-tapping and use some of the potent Gunner-Crew combos in Scum; when flying with the title, you get a 3-dice primary attack that double taps, lose the crew, and have a Gunner-Astromech combo on a bigger platform than the Y-Wing.

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

This all over. The 1300 is almost strictly better even taking p1 into account.

I've said it in several discussions, any two of the five or so fixes applied to the JM would have been fine but all of them together make it an unplayable mess, probably unfixably so with just cost changes.

I wanted to elaborate on this:

The fixes:

The dial. The fixes are twofold here: removing the green turns and white sloop, and adding the red turns and changing the right banks, and removing the red sloop. Either of these rendes the dial a lot less forgiving, both just means it has a really hobbled dial that is extremely hard to work with.

The actions. It's a turret with THAT dial, and no white rotate options, and 3/5 of its actions red (ish). Plus, not having rotate as anything but a linked action limits is options for Gunners.

The slots: lol it doesn't even have Gunner.

The arc. It's the only 1e PWT to not get a bowtie turret, which is pretty hideous, plus it has two major abilities (Dengar's and the title) which depend on front arc attacks, but it's a turret that wants to be able to use its side arcs because it's garbage at turning round.

The base size: it could have fitted on a medium base, the mini is the same width as the Scurrg and shorter nose to tail than the Scurrg is wide; putting it on a medium base would have made it a little harder to block and made the dial a little less punishing in close quarters.

About the only thing it has going for it is the Torp slot and the Mech slot. Everything else is garbage.

And then you compare it to Han Solo in the 1300 and he's four points cheaper than Dengar, with cheaper access to more dice which work regardless of facing, and he can get double taps via the gunner slot (albeit not on the same target).

It's so bad, but it would be more or less impossible to make it not terrible without making it brokenly powerful.

Unfortunately, it seems unlikely FFG would re-issue the dial, or delete "small ship" from R4 Astromech as I've seen suggested. Someone on Reddit (I think) suggested creating a new Scum astromech with charges that would help the dial.

6 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Unfortunately, it seems unlikely FFG would re-issue the dial, or delete "small ship" from R4 Astromech as I've seen suggested. Someone on Reddit (I think) suggested creating a new Scum astromech with charges that would help the dial.

Do we want a auto include card? I thought that's what 2.0 was about, removing the autothrusters and ptl sort of cards that you was a fool not to take.

10 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Unfortunately, it seems unlikely FFG would re-issue the dial, or delete "small ship" from R4 Astromech as I've seen suggested. Someone on Reddit (I think) suggested creating a new Scum astromech with charges that would help the dial.

It's a tough one, because the most intractable problem with the JM5K is the one that's almost impossible to errata (the dial).

The things thst are fixable by app or pdf are cost and upgrade slots. Slot additions are very dangerous because they can so easily open up broken combos (like 1.0 had). Cost reductions are tricky because if you can miniswarm scouts you end up with a bumpfest of a squad (because of all those low-init large bases) that's frustrating to play against. In theory there should be a cost breakpoint that's just right but I'm not sure what.