Hi:

Does dropping stuff in combat constitute a Free action? I swear I read this somewhere but cannot find it right now.

Thanks!!!

L

I don't actually remember seeing this anywhere but we have used this in our own games, mostly for the guy who drops a small area effect grenade before pegging it away in the other direction.

Hi!

An acolyte in a hurry to draw his power sword might have to drop his (used up) Saturday Night Special Stubber...

L

Way we've been looking at it is that it shouldn't take 3+ seconds to let GO of something, unless it's attached to you somehow.

I mean, if you have to take off, like, gauntlets created to do nothing more then hold a **** weapon, then yeah, yer gonna be taking a bit, but if your just holding a sword/gun, and want to let go, it should just be as easy as that.

HI!

My thoughts exactly! A free action it should be! (Yoda Grammar now it is)

L

A free action sounds right.

what about falling prone?

situation (a) is like this:

you stand before a <evil enemy in powerarmour which is about to explode for some unexplained reasons> on the edge of a platform that is 3 meters high.

you did the last hit on the enemy and are last in initiative order the evil exploding enemy is first

you will certainly not get out of the explosion without crit damage and eventually dying because you are at like 2 wounds have flak cloak(3) and 2TB

you could let yourself fall backwards to avoid the explosion taking a opportunity attack because you do not properly withdraw from close combat and 1d10+3 falling damage for 3 meters which is potentially deadly too but you do have a reaction left to parry and there is someone below that you can land on (which has a reaction whcih allows him to catch him in our campaign but even if not he still does not fall 3 meters but onto that friend)

provided you left the platform you are save because you are effectivele behind a wall/floor corner of the platform and the explosion does not reach you

can you just do that? we also discussed about "diving for cover" but as the enemy explode at the start of his turn he does not attack and therefore no dodge...

and the explosion itself triggers no dodge either

situation (b) is like this:

you are behind serious cover (on a battleship with plasteel walls 32AP) prone

you take a half action to stand up

half action to shoot at an enemy

free action to fall prone again to be back in cover (full concealment instead of head and arm outside of cover)

if not what about dropping your arm? (relaxing muscles so it basically falls with that 7.5kg basic weapon you hold with that pistol grip and the gravity doing it for you?)

I'd personally say no to the falling prone thing.

It does take time for a body to drop, even if only a second or so while you relax your muscles and allow gravity to take effect upon you.

Letting go of an object however, allows you to ignore it and start your next action while the object itself is dropping, in effect the two things happen concurrently.

well having 2 actions and roughly 4 seconds per turn an action (half) would be about 2 seconds (and an average human moves about 3 squares in this time which is ok and would equal about 1,5m/s) 1 second is enough to fall about 9,81m/s or roughly 10m/s since it is a standard gravity planet/ship (different rules only for extremely different gravitation areas) it is not linear movement but lets say I did a 2 second aim and a 2 second weapon swing then someone hit me with some kind of melee weapon and I can opt to dodge or dive for cover meaning I can step back (about 1 meter what I'ld need ~0,66s for) and fall down (cause that is the only cover in range) if not being hit I have nothing to dodge and can't dive for cover because I virtually have only free actions (split second actions like talking a sentence) left

of course this assumes 1square=1meter (dunno about this) and 1round ~=4s (which someone posted on these forums I didn't find it in the books but didn't really bother by now)

yes it is an abstract measure of time and if thought trough properly imposes multiple time paradoxes

but still I have trouble to reason that

a) letting a gun fall (relaxing muscles to drop) in game terms makes my hand immediately available to draw another weapon or catch something meaning the weapon previously in my hand needed a split second (or no time at all) to fall let's say 10 cm minimum to make room for a catch action but in the same time my arm couldn't the same distance

b) being attacked buys me the time to move a meter

what about making dive for cover attempts even if not eligible for a dodge action? what about making dive for cover available when being attacked by an explosion (like a grenade, a booby trap, a missile) (sometimes you are effected even if they did not aim at you so you can't dodge the initial attack either) or a flame weapon... oh no flame weapons ignore cover that wouldn't work

thing is the character aimed and attacked, has 2 reactions (the explosion is next round he didn't use his reaction yet so he has 1 in each turn) and can't do nothing as opposed to a dualwielding lighning attacking guy who has attacked 4 times gets a melee atack and can dive for cover

sidenote: an incoming attack buys me the time to dive for cover 2 meters... as a techpriest that was cyberreborn and has a machinator array it is not hard to have an agility bonus of 1 left what in the end doubles his movement for that turn if he is attacked or makes him move his full movement rate for free if not moving as a reaction

To be honest, it's a simple matter of common sense. All groups I've played with during the last 20 or so years were more than willing to accept the occasional gamemaster's call on certain quick rulings not covered by RAW. A player who's not, might not be worth your gm'ing time anyways.

Make it situational and decide per 'scene'. That's your job as a GM.

of course that is how we handle it (I don't GM at the moment I play) but in one situation I could stand up fire and fall prone and in another I couldn't and it is kinda frustrating to plan on these free actions if the GM then suddenly says no you can't so as a player you want rules

and I'm not trying to flame I'm trying to get input how you would handle specific situations? would you allow to prone to fall back into cover just after you stood up? would you allow to fall prone to dive for cover because an explosion would kill the char otherwise? would you allow it if it didn't kill him?

what about the evil tech heretic NPC that wants to do the same? (dive for cover from a grenade) does he get a roll?

Sirion said:

All actions listed above would be a Dodge.

In a firefight and you want to pop up from behind cover, shoot, then duck back? That's called dodging. ;-) As all actions are happening roughly at the same time, the other fella you're shooting at isn't going to wait patently for you to finish your 5 seconds of actions so he can preform 5 seconds of actions (after all, the whole round, no matter how many folks are fighting is 5 seconds or so) so when you pop up, you have to get your shot off and then back in cover before the other guy can fire back because he's doing the same damned thing at only about half a second slower then you... dodge!

Diving for cover from a grenade? Dodge! Can that Arch-Heretic dodge behind cover before the grenade goes off? Depends, dose he have a reaction left to dodge with and is his agl bonus equal to or greater then the blast radius? If so, then yes, a successful dodge check would see him diving for some kind of cover. If not, then, nope, it's boom time.

Would I allow a character to dodge a blast if they'd die otherwise? Yes, if they have a dodge reaction and succeed on their test. Also, if they burn a fate point, then I'd let them automatically dodge behind cover, sure.

Either way, the Dodge skill covers just about everything asked here. Dodge!

Well I would think dropping items normally to be a free-action, but usually it's a moot point since the Ready action allows you to holster a weapon etc. before drawing a new one.. thus you normally never need that extra free action to something.

As for the stand, shoot, prone maneuver while technically could be legal I'd not allow it. It could make sense when reloading or otherwise needing to do something behind cover, but in this case it's just trying to expoit a rules whole.

It can be countered with the Delay action anyway, but that makes Bursts impossible so I don't like it. Bouncing up and down like that looks stupid anyway.

you can use overwatch for bursts

Sirion said:

Yes, but it takes a full turn to take effect.

1. enemy shoots full auto, then prone behind wall.

2. You declare Overwatch

3. Enemy stands, shoots, and drops prone.

4. Overwatch is now active, so continue overwatch.

5. Enemy stands up, gets a burst in the face, might be pinned, and then shoots and drops prone if able to (not pinned or dead).

As you can see, while not completely useless this gives the enemy 2 rounds of attacks against you (albeit one a half action attack). If you delay you can shoot yourself one time when the enemy pops back up, which might be a better tactic with called shot.

The only time I would use Overwatch here is either when I have good cover myself or there are more than one enemy hiding. Pinning+full auto is very good,

well ok after re-reading overwatch I don't know if you are right we played it like: you spend your full turn to create a killzone and then it is in effect immediately which is basically a delay for bursts because "Establishing a killzone takes a full turn" not "a full round"