I had a question for a bit of gear I am working on. I'm trying to recreate the Lawgiver pistol from the Dredd Series, or something like it. My theory was that, once per encounter, the PC could apply a quality to the weapon for a single attack. I am wondering if I should restrict this to a list of specific qualities, and how to balance it so that one quality isn't clearly better than the others. I am thinking of using the Heavy Pistol as the basis for the gun.

I think using the Limited Ammo quality is fine for limiting the use of special ammo types, like Hi-Ex and Ricochet, or Hotshot. Are you trying to reproduce the Lawgiver from the comics, or from the 2012 movie? Either way, it is a highly unique weapon with a lot more hard points than Genesys would normally allow for, but if you're running a Dredd/Judges campaign, they should definitely have access to their signature weapon.

If you want to err on the less fanciful side (without aliens, cyborgs, psionics, necromancy, interstellar travel, etc), the 2012 movie is probably a better source to work from.

Dammit, I would love a Dredd setting for Genesys. Specially without the more fantastical things, just hard cyberpunk.

Having a base of the heavy pistol works great. Then have the limited ammo "linked" to the special qualities. Say it has Limited Ammo 4, that means you can call upon 4 special rounds before you run out of "special ammo." Regardless of if you use 4 of one, 1 of four or any combo in the middle. Of course, when you have a chance to rearm at base (or some other way to get more) you can reset your special ammo. Or even have an item that lets you have one reload of special ammo to reset the LA once per encounter or something.

I'd give them a list of various ammos you can use, otherwise the players may get analysis paralysis trying to figure out what to add to the ammo.

I'll go ahead and start with a few ammo types:

• Rapid-Fire: Autofire quality
• AP: Pierce 1
• Hollow-Point: Vicious 1
• Incendiary/Hotshot: Burn 1 (Not really sure how to distinguish these)
• HI-EX: Blast 1 (Think this is kinda overpowered)
• Stun: Deals Stun Damage

Obviously, balance suggestions are requested.

1 hour ago, maquise said:

I'll go ahead and start with a few ammo types:

• Rapid-Fire: Autofire quality
• AP: Pierce 1
• Hollow-Point: Vicious 1
• Incendiary/Hotshot: Burn 1 (Not really sure how to distinguish these)
• HI-EX: Blast 1 (Think this is kinda overpowered)
• Stun: Deals Stun Damage

Obviously, balance suggestions are requested.

Pierce 1? That's not worth the Limited Ammo restriction. I'd say Pierce 2 at a minimum, but probably Pierce 3. Same for HiEx. Blast 1 is worthless, as soak will mitigate all damage on a miss, and on a hit only a really good hit will do any damage. Since the weapon is 6 damage (heavy pistol, CRB166) I'd say Blast of 4 or 5.

2 minutes ago, c__beck said:

Pierce 1? That's not worth the Limited Ammo restriction. I'd say Pierce 2 at a minimum, but probably Pierce 3. Same for HiEx. Blast 1 is worthless, as soak will mitigate all damage on a miss, and on a hit only a really good hit will do any damage. Since the weapon is 6 damage (heavy pistol, CRB166) I'd say Blast of 4 or 5.

Revision 1:

• Rapid-Fire: Autofire quality
• AP: Pierce 3
• Hollow-Point: Vicious 1
• Incendiary/Hotshot: Burn 1 (Not really sure how to distinguish these)
• HI-EX: Blast 4 (Think this is kinda overpowered)
• Stun: Deals Stun Damage

Is Burn 1 balanced effectively against these?

1 minute ago, maquise said:

Is Burn 1 balanced effectively against these?

"Balance" is all subjective. Burn `1 is great against low-soak targets and minion groups, whereas AP ammo is better against heavily armoured targets and HiEx specializes in attacking targets behind cover (triggering it on a miss).

I would up Hollow-point to Vicious 2 and add "Stun 3" to the stun bullet (so it does stun damage and, for 2 advantage, can possibly cause 3 more). It'd have to be playtested a bit, but it's a great starting point.

Well, almost. For me, personally, I would rarely use the hollow-point ammo, since the utility of it requires not only a hit, but 3 adv/1 triumph to crit. Otherwise it's a waste of a special bullet. Granted, the burning bullet has the same problem, requires a hit and 2 adv to trigger, but that beautiful burn damage is worth it (IMO). But, again, playtesting is going to be required. Make sure it feels good in play.

One thing I'm not quite sure of, is whether or not a player would have to select if they use a special ammo before they make an attack roll, or if they can decide to use it after they see how the roll plays out.

An item's balance is related to other items and the adversaries in the setting. Nothing is balanced on its own.

I mean, it makes sense that you would choose it before making the combat check. But rule-of-cool says to let them choose.

But the Limited Ammo would be less of a setback if the player could choose after the fact. Gut reaction is they have to choose before. But again, playtesting both ways will tell you which works better.

1 hour ago, drainsmith said:

An item's balance is related to other items and the adversaries in the setting. Nothing is balanced on its own.

To clarify, I was referring to the specific ammo types, in relation to each other.

The specialty ammo types in Dredd are very hard-hitting, I would not lowball them. Hi-Ex is just that: a powerful explosive attack that can disable armoured robots, vehicles, etc. Hotshot burns ferociously for several rounds before it is spent. The balancing factor is not mechanical, it is baked into the setting: Judges, above all, must obey the law, and can't gun down civilians with, or even use, Hi-Ex and Hotshot without extraordinary circumstances.

I would say that a player must choose the ammo type before taking the shot, in all cases. That's how it's always been in the Dredd comics, and in the movies: a Judge commands the Lawgiver to switch ammo type (or switches it manually). then uses the specialty ammo.

On 2/19/2019 at 6:25 AM, Direach said:

The specialty ammo types in Dredd are very hard-hitting, I would not lowball them. 

Agreed. Keep the Lawgiver as kick-***** as it should be. Scale up the encounters instead as a balance.

Even Minion groups can be given the Adversary talent

Alright, here's what I've come up with:

Lawgiver - Ranged (Light) - Damage 6 - Crit 3 - Range Medium - Encumbrance 1 - Special: Variable Ammo 5

Variable Ammo:

A weapon with this quality possesses the ability to switch between standard rounds and specialized ammunition. Selecting a specialized round is an Incidental, which must be declared prior to making the attack. Although the individual types of specialized ammo are not tracked, as a whole the specialized rounds can only be used a limited number of times, in the same way as Limited Ammo. The number of specialized rounds that can be fired before needing to reload is listed next to the Quality.

Specialized Ammo Types available to the Lawgiver Pistol:

• Rapid-Fire: Gains the Autofire Quality until the end of the next round.
• AP: Pierce 3
• Hollow-Point: Vicious 2, reduce weapon's Crit rating by 1, Double the soak provided by opponent's armor
• Incendiary/Hotshot: Burn 2
• HI-EX: Blast 4
• Stun: Deals Stun Damage, Stun 3

14 minutes ago, maquise said:

Alright, here's what I've come up with:

Lawgiver - Ranged (Light) - Damage 6 - Crit 3 - Range Medium - Encumbrance 1 - Special: Variable Ammo 5

Variable Ammo:

A weapon with this quality possesses the ability to switch between standard rounds and specialized ammunition. Selecting a specialized round is an Incidental, which must be declared prior to making the attack. Although the individual types of specialized ammo are not tracked, as a whole the specialized rounds can only be used a limited number of times, in the same way as Limited Ammo. The number of specialized rounds that can be fired before needing to reload is listed next to the Quality.

Specialized Ammo Types available to the Lawgiver Pistol:

• Rapid-Fire: Gains the Autofire Quality until the end of the next round.
• AP: Pierce 3
• Hollow-Point: Vicious 2
• Incendiary/Hotshot: Burn 2
• HI-EX: Blast 4
• Stun: Deals Stun Damage, Stun 3

I'd suggest having hollow point reduce the Critical rating by 1, add Vicious 2, and double the Soak added by the target's armor.

3 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I'd suggest having hollow point reduce the Critical rating by 1, add Vicious 2, and double the Soak added by the target's armor.

Added changes above.

11 minutes ago, maquise said:

Added changes above.

In some versions, Hotshot is distinct from Incendiary. While the latter Burns, the former is a Guided (2) munition. Optionally, you could go with:

Incendiary: Blast 4, Burn 1

Hotshot: Burn 2

There's a bit of overlap between Hi-Ex, Incendiary and Hotshot, as far as I can tell. Trying to figure out how I'd implement all three.

Hi-Ex is meant to be demolition rounds for blowing holes through walls. It probably needs to have high Pierce or Breach to do that.

My own take on the Lawgiver Mk II (based on the weapon that is current standard issue in the Judge Dredd comics):

Name: Lawgiver Mk II
Skill: Ranged (Light)
Damage: 7
Crit: 3
Range: Medium
Encumbrance: 2
Special: Accurate 1, Superior

The following ammo types are standard for a Lawgiver Mk II. Once per round, a Judge may switch ammo types as an incidental:

• Standard Execution (SE): as per the basic profile
• Armour-Piercing (AP): Damage 6, Pierce 3
• Ricochet (R): as SE but Judge may spend 2 Advantage to hit a target within range, but not within direct line of sight, as long as there is a clear path to the target.
• Incendiary (I): as SE, add Burn 3
• High Explosive (HE, Hi-Ex): Damage 10, Breach 1, Blast 8
• Heatseeker (HS, Hot Shot): As SE or Incendiary, add Guided 3

Fire Modes:

• Standard: as per the basic profile
• Rapid Fire: gains Auto-Fire, loses Accurate 1
• Silenced: Costs 1 Maneuver to attach the silencer. While silenced, the Lawgiver makes no sound and emits no muzzle flash while firing; add 2 Setback to attempts to locate the firer. Cannot be used with Rapid Fire or Grenades.
• Stun Shot: Damage 6, Stun damage. Stun Shot uses an internal battery and does not consume any ammunition.
• Grenade: Costs 1 Maneuver to attach a grenade. Limited Ammo 1. May fire Fragmentation, Stumm Gas, or Tranq Gas grenades.

Other Features:

• Biometric Lock: Each Lawgiver Mk II is keyed specifically to the Judge to which it was issued. Any attempt by an unauthorized person to use the weapon will cause it to self-destruct (treat as Hi-Ex against the target, the weapon is destroyed). In an emergency, a senior Judge may bypass this with an Average Mechanics check.

If the Lawgiver Mk II runs out of ammo due to Threat or Despair, the ammo type in use when the result was generated is not available until the weapon is reloaded.

As a suggestion to the above, how about giving the Ricochet Shot the guided quality instead?

12 minutes ago, Noahjam325 said:

As a suggestion to the above, how about giving the Ricochet Shot the guided quality instead?

Because Ricochet is not a guided attack; if it misses, it misses, it can't circle back to try again. Heatseeker does track targets though, and can attempt to hit a target again.

I want to play a game with this weapon! 😁