People in this topic must actively be trying to talk past each other. There are two very obvious points of view that seem well within the bounds of being considered reasonable.

Exclusive things can make people feel like they are being excluded. People do not like to feel excluded. Very basic concept. It is hard to understand why people can't understand that. What usually makes exclusive items in X-Wing acceptable, as is the case with alternative art cards, is that the exclusive items that FFG creates are locked behind some kind of barrier that is generally (certainly in the case of the average kit, but not in the case of Worlds) accessible to the community at large without purchasing a plane ticket and required participation in, or even winning, the game itself. The fact that the people are not happy that the major barrier to obtaining this exclusive item is considered geographical, as opposed to having anything to do with playing X-Wing, is understandable.

At the same time, new items for the game can be exciting. Successful promotions and exclusive items are likely to lead to more of those things and, eventually, a majority of the players may even be able to get their hands on something similar. The more engaged people feel with the game, the more likely they are to participate.

The real questions is whether the benefit to be had from supplying a very limited number of people with an exclusive item (and the inevitable scalping) is worth the cost of making some others feel ignored. If the whole point of this alternative ship is to ultimately improve the health of the game, presumably someone at FFG decided that the benefit would outweigh the harm.

23 minutes ago, Rapture said:

People in this topic must actively be trying to talk past each other. There are two very obvious points of view that seem well within the bounds of being considered reasonable.

Exclusive things can make people feel like they are being excluded. People do not like to feel excluded. Very basic concept. It is hard to understand why people can't understand that. What usually makes exclusive items in X-Wing acceptable, as is the case with alternative art cards, is that the exclusive items that FFG creates are locked behind some kind of barrier that is generally (certainly in the case of the average kit, but not in the case of Worlds) accessible to the community at large without purchasing a plane ticket and required participation in, or even winning, the game itself. The fact that the people are not happy that the major barrier to obtaining this exclusive item is considered geographical, as opposed to having anything to do with playing X-Wing, is understandable.

At the same time, new items for the game can be exciting. Successful promotions and exclusive items are likely to lead to more of those things and, eventually, a majority of the players may even be able to get their hands on something similar. The more engaged people feel with the game, the more likely they are to participate.

The real questions is whether the benefit to be had from supplying a very limited number of people with an exclusive item (and the inevitable scalping) is worth the cost of making some others feel ignored. If the whole point of this alternative ship is to ultimately improve the health of the game, presumably someone at FFG decided that the benefit would outweigh the harm.

And its not as if we as the community are unwilling to go to these conventions, but lets be honest, a lot of us just do NOT have they kinda money to be able to get out there. The 2nd worst part is the location, its not like its in Chicago for instance, a well known high traveled city in Urban America, but its on some off shot city quite some distance even from an airport, which of course then adds even MORE money to the cost of going, with the price of a cab for anyone out of state.

I actually was willing to go, when i saw it was in IL, but then i saw it wasn't even remotely close to a main train system like in Chicago, and the odds of me figuring out the cheap travel option of using public transit from Chicago wouldn't work either. To top it off and make things even worse, this is all sprung on the community with only a month to prepare financially, create travel plans, all the while trying to maintain normal life duties like work and whatever, to be even think of being able to attend, which again, is kinda crap.

1 hour ago, Rapture said:

People in this topic must actively be trying to talk past each other. There are two very obvious points of view that seem well within the bounds of being considered reasonable.

Exclusive things can make people feel like they are being excluded. People do not like to feel excluded. Very basic concept. It is hard to understand why people can't understand that. What usually makes exclusive items in X-Wing acceptable, as is the case with alternative art cards, is that the exclusive items that FFG creates are locked behind some kind of barrier that is generally (certainly in the case of the average kit, but not in the case of Worlds) accessible to the community at large without purchasing a plane ticket and required participation in, or even winning, the game itself. The fact that the people are not happy that the major barrier to obtaining this exclusive item is considered geographical, as opposed to having anything to do with playing X-Wing, is understandable.

At the same time, new items for the game can be exciting. Successful promotions and exclusive items are likely to lead to more of those things and, eventually, a majority of the players may even be able to get their hands on something similar. The more engaged people feel with the game, the more likely they are to participate.

The real questions is whether the benefit to be had from supplying a very limited number of people with an exclusive item (and the inevitable scalping) is worth the cost of making some others feel ignored. If the whole point of this alternative ship is to ultimately improve the health of the game, presumably someone at FFG decided that the benefit would outweigh the harm.

I guess my question would be couldn't they do both? They could offer the alt-paint ships from their webstore only during the event? Yes it wouldn't be as rare or exclusive right away, but as you get farther and farther from the event you would start to see some, especially for people who start playing after said event.

4 hours ago, Rapture said:

What usually makes exclusive items in X-Wing acceptable, as is the case with alternative art cards, is that the exclusive items that FFG creates are locked behind some kind of barrier that is generally (certainly in the case of the average kit, but not in the case of Worlds) accessible to the community at large without purchasing a plane ticket and required participation in, or even winning, the game itself.

I strongly disagree. What makes such exclusive items acceptable is that they're not giving those who have them some kind of advantage in the game and putting those who don't have them at a disadvantage.

It's at a major event. It's common for major events to have memorabilia that is exclusive to that event. If people are disappointed because they can't go, that's fine, but to get bent out of shape about it being some grand injustice is just plain silly.

5 hours ago, matt.sucharski said:

Other people can sometimes have a thing I don't have. I will not fear this or waste a moment worrying about it. Maybe there will be a cool dumb rare thing I get, too. We will all have different things and be happy.

Or, to put it another way:

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you might find
You get what you need

4 hours ago, Zeoinx said:

And its not as if we as the community are unwilling to go to these conventions, but lets be honest, a lot of us just do NOT have they kinda money to be able to get out there. The 2nd worst part is the location, its not like its in Chicago for instance, a well known high traveled city in Urban America, but its on some off shot city quite some distance even from an airport, which of course then adds even MORE money to the cost of going, with the price of a cab for anyone out of state.

I actually was willing to go, when i saw it was in IL, but then i saw it wasn't even remotely close to a main train system like in Chicago, and the odds of me figuring out the cheap travel option of using public transit from Chicago wouldn't work either. To top it off and make things even worse, this is all sprung on the community with only a month to prepare financially, create travel plans, all the while trying to maintain normal life duties like work and whatever, to be even think of being able to attend, which again, is kinda crap.

Schaumburg is 20 minutes from O'Hare via taxi, so it's not like it's in BFE. As for the timing big deal either you were going before they announced it or you weren't and the event tickets were probably sold out anyway.

This isn't a big deal.

10 hours ago, Rapture said:

People in this topic must actively be trying to talk past each other. There are two very obvious points of view that seem well within the bounds of being considered reasonable.

Exclusive things can make people feel like they are being excluded. People do not like to feel excluded. Very basic concept. It is hard to understand why people can't understand that.

In this thread there are 2 basic camps:

Some who want this promo, but can't have it. And like you said, it's not merit-locked, but rather geography-locked. So they are miffed, as well as concerned that this will become a new way to miss out on options.

Then there is the other side, people who think that this is a reward for simply traveling to Adepticon. But a useless reward, since it doesn't add anything useful to their tournament tool kit, which is probably why they would be taking the time to go to Adepticon.

But what really gets my goat is that the I Don't Care group is calling the I Do Care group entitled, OCD, and crybabies because they actually like Xwing MINIATURES enough to be sad they are missing out, not on dice, templates or cards, but on an actual miniature, and thus would prefer for this type of promo to not become A Thing. Which is why they are out here stating their case.

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

But what really gets my goat is that the I Don't Care group is calling the I Do Care group entitled, OCD, and crybabies because they actually like Xwing MINIATURES enough to be sad they are missing out, not on dice, templates or cards, but on an actual miniature, and thus would prefer for this type of promo to not become A Thing. Which is why they are out here stating their case.

I don't think wanting a model and feeling sad that you can't have it makes someone entitled. Feeling that they somehow deserve every single model and whining about the perceived injustice of a system that dares have purely cosmetic exclusives makes someone entitled.

There's two camps. Reasonable people and people I disagree with.

54 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I don't think wanting a model and feeling sad that you can't have it makes someone entitled. Feeling that they somehow deserve every single model and whining about the perceived injustice of a system that dares have purely cosmetic exclusives makes someone entitled.

Well said. At the point where you decided you had the right create a forum thread complaining about it you've crossed the line.

6 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

Well said. At the point where you decided you had the right create a forum thread complaining about it you've crossed the line.

I don't even think creating a topic to discuss the issue is itself bad. Rather, the manner of some of the complaints--as well as the implication by some (though not all) of those complaining that their enjoyment of the game is somehow lessened by not having a more bling-y ship--is what leads me to view those making the complaints as entitled.

We really are just talking about hurt feelings though. Hurt feelings do matter, but if you think Disney gives one **** about how you feel, you are mistaken.

No, hurt feelings don't matter. Everything you do hurts someone's feelings, it's for the person who is hurt to deal with whether it's legitimate for them to feel hurt or not. This is where this has broken down, because of a lack of perspective of your own irrelevance.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I don't think wanting a model and feeling sad that you can't have it makes someone entitled. Feeling that they somehow deserve every single model and whining about the perceived injustice of a system that dares have purely cosmetic exclusives makes someone entitled.

Speaking of the consumers in the United States, this is a capitalist economy. Consumers expecting certain treatment from businesses, or being "entitled," is a major component of balancing the relationship between businesses and consumers. Consumers demanding access to the same products that a business is giving other consumers access to really is neither surprising nor a big deal. This is being really overblown.

49 minutes ago, Explorator88 said:

We really are just talking about hurt feelings though. Hurt feelings do matter, but if you think Disney gives one **** about how you feel, you are mistaken.

FFG makes money from its customers and cares about how happy they are. That said, I would agree that this issue is not going to have a major impact on FFG's bottom line.

3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I don't think wanting a model and feeling sad that you can't have it makes someone entitled. Feeling that they somehow deserve every single model and whining about the perceived injustice of a system that dares have purely cosmetic exclusives makes someone entitled.

So the people who are fighting who are happy they are going to get it, entitled because they can keep it to themselves as a exclusive to just them? This is one of the many problems in the world. Exclusivity as a whole is a horrible thing, and people feel left out. While this particular case is such a hugely minor case on the grand scale of things being exclusive, it just shows how people love to lord something over someone else who cant get it. Thats why people are showing backlash to people who want it but cant get it, its not because they "dont care" its they rather have something to lord over the people who want it, weather or not they are getting it.

3 hours ago, TheCeilican said:

No, hurt feelings don't matter. Everything you do hurts someone's feelings, it's for the person who is hurt to deal with whether it's legitimate for them to feel hurt or not. This is where this has broken down, because of a lack of perspective of your own irrelevance.

Well, I guess this explains why you have almost no posts in which you are not being an ******* to some other forum member.

Because I looked. Your tenure out here has been nasty, short, and brutish.

9 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

In this thread there are 2 basic camps:

Some who want this promo, but can't have it. And like you said, it's not merit-locked, but rather geography-locked. So they are miffed, as well as concerned that this will become a new way to miss out on options.

Then there is the other side, people who think that this is a reward for simply traveling to Adepticon. But a useless reward, since it doesn't add anything useful to their tournament tool kit, which is probably why they would be taking the time to go to Adepticon.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

12 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

Are you absolutely sure about that?

2 hours ago, Zeoinx said:

So the people who are fighting who are happy they are going to get it, entitled because they can keep it to themselves as a exclusive to just them? This is one of the many problems in the world. Exclusivity as a whole is a horrible thing, and people feel left out. While this particular case is such a hugely minor case on the grand scale of things being exclusive, it just shows how people love to lord something over someone else who cant get it. Thats why people are showing backlash to people who want it but cant get it, its not because they "dont care" its they rather have something to lord over the people who want it, weather or not they are getting it.

While I can see some like that, that is far from the whole story.

The idea of exclusive content and event prizes is to promote costumer participation. Those who invested the time, money, and effort to come out to official FFG events are helping in a few ways, including giving outsiders context for the number of X-Wing fans, more convenient data (in the case of tournaments) for balancing purposes, and being on hand to teach potential new players. They are providing a clear, observable benefit to FFG. So, FFG decides that as a bonus for those who invested in their event, they offer up something special as a bonus for that investment.

Now, you have a contingent of people who are not interested in investing the effort to support FFG, but they want this special item. Now, they have financially supported FFG by buying their products, but so have those who put in more effort. So, the cries of “we want that too” comes across poorly because no extra effort was put in.

Now, the case for those who want to put in the effort and can’t is a little different and do I sympathize. I’ve had to see lots of cool prizes (even the participation ones) that I couldn’t get because I was unable to go to the right event for them. It can be a bummer, but you shake it off and move on. If this alt art ships thing continues, then something else will hopefully pop up where you can get it, and someone who went to Adepticon might not be able to. That’s how it goes. Has for many, many years. See event t-shirts.

So while yes, the old haves and have-nots relationship is there, there is more to the story than “I want this to lord over you.” There is also considerations like “if I did more work, why are we paid the same?” And I seriously doubt everyone on the opposing side as you has every single exclusive item FFG has offered over the years, including the opportunity to go get this vulture droid. I’m willing to bet that most have seen something offered up else where that they’d love to get, but accepted they couldn’t and moved on. They aren’t talking out their butts, they talk from experience.

50 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Are you absolutely sure about that?

It's, like, black and white dude

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

It's, like, black and white dude

I forgot, of course, that apart from that statement, Obi-wan really doesn't deal in absolutes.

2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

It's, like, black and white dude

Commas are important. Granted, dude, that if this were to be written, it would be "It's, like, black dude and white dude," but comma missing vs. "dude" missing, potato, potato.

2 hours ago, player3010587 said:

Commas are important. Granted, dude, that if this were to be written, it would be "It's, like, black dude and white dude," but comma missing vs. "dude" missing, potato, potato.

If we're going to detail the thread even further with a grammar slam, I think the end result would be more this:

Sure this is Legion but is anyone really sticking with the no danger of escalation?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/2/27/the-power-of-the-dark-side-1/

Here's the bullet:

Quote

Rounding out this expansion are reprints of four upgrade cards that allow Darth Vader to unleash the full power of the Force on his opponents

Reprints from where?

Just now, Frimmel said:

Sure this is Legion but is anyone really sticking with the no danger of escalation?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/2/27/the-power-of-the-dark-side-1/

Here's the bullet:

Reprints from where?

You're right, this crosses the line, by including upgrade cards that already exist.

1 minute ago, svelok said:

You're right, this crosses the line, by including upgrade cards that already exist.

No, it doesn't cross the line. But there is clearly an escalation going on. Are these reprints already available in dark side expansions? Probably nothing to see here.