It's late and I haven't really thought through the premise too much, but Sai with ST-321 and Emperor Palpatine is 62 points, only 1 more than the classic Redline build. She isn't as mobile as Redline used to be, but she fills a somewhat similar role: hits like a truck, and eats incoming fire that could be going onto other more important ships.

For an easy example, keep things as close as possible to Philip Booth's System Open List. I mean, this doesn't seem bad to me:

• Whisper (Juke, Fifth Brother, Advanced Sensors) 78
• Soontir Fel (Predator) 54
• Lieutenant Sai (Emperor Palpatine, ST-321) 62
  • Total 194, bid 6

Having played with Palp a bunch with double Deltas, I think he's kinda decent. He's not 1e good, but seems totally worth his points. There's often someone who can benefit from an eyeball conversion. Saving a point of damage on Soontir can change a game. But then again, when I was flying him the most, a lot of other folks were playing Juke, and that certainly opens opportunities for Palp to do work. I'm not really into a long Palp discussion; I'd rather keep it on Sai in general.

But Palp is also totally replaceable. Collision Detector has proved its mettle on Upsilons. Sloane can be painful to face, even if she's in a low ship count list. Vader crew is pricey, but activating Whisper's Juke is nasty, and the shuttle even has two arcs to use. Even Krennic doesn't seem too bad: Soontir might want to use Optimized Prototype to save his focus for defense, and ST-321 means there's a decent chance Krennic's ship has actually got a lock on whoever Soontir is shooting.

//

Anyhow, that's just one example. Taking out an old Redline and putting in a Sai might have some potential.

I’ve been playing Jendon with ST321 and Collision Detector with TIE Advanceds recently. The Lambda is very surprising to both to me and my opponents. Collision Detector is so useful on the ship and getting a lock after co-ordinating means you’re boosting the offensive power whilst also helping another ship. That rear arc is very useful too. I rarely trigger Jendon twice but getting the locks out there on round 1 for the Advanceds early makes such a difference.

The space cow now has horns.

Sai is not a replacement for Redline in the same way that a TV is not a replacement for a Car.

Redlibe is brought for double-modified proton torps, and Init 5 repositioning before/after moving: IE Ace play.

Sai isa supportive brick.

you dropped your jamming beam

7 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Sai is not a replacement for Redline in the same way that a TV is not a replacement for a Car.

Redlibe is brought for double-modified proton torps, and Init 5 repositioning before/after moving: IE Ace play.

Sai isa supportive brick.

It's clearly not a straight replacement. The semi-ace-quality of a Redline is missing, to be sure.

But it's still double-mod shots, if only 3 dice (4 at Range 1). It's still got that bullet sponge character.

I guess a lot of the reason I'm fascinated by Sai in a list like this is that in some ways, Redline was keeping Sai out of the meta. A Whisper/Redline/Sai list has a weakness since the vulnerabilities of Redline and Sai are kind of too similar: ships which won't really work if they're the last one in the list. The front-loaded damage which can't entirely avoid incoming fire.

Redline is kinda the more direct route. Sai kinda takes the long-way around, is a bit less shooty at long range, but ideally makes up for that through being supporty. But they just stuck a hefty toll on the faster road, so maybe the indirect route is worth considering.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

It's clearly not a straight replacement. The semi-ace-quality of a Redline is missing, to be sure.

But it's still double-mod shots, if only 3 dice (4 at Range 1). It's still got that bullet sponge character.

I guess a lot of the reason I'm fascinated by Sai in a list like this is that in some ways, Redline was keeping Sai out of the meta. A Whisper/Redline/Sai list has a weakness since the vulnerabilities of Redline and Sai are kind of too similar: ships which won't really work if they're the last one in the list. The front-loaded damage which can't entirely avoid incoming fire.

Redline is kinda the more direct route. Sai kinda takes the long-way around, is a bit less shooty at long range, but ideally makes up for that through being supporty. But they just stuck a hefty toll on the faster road, so maybe the indirect route is worth considering.

Semi-ace? Redline is/was better at repositioning than ships like Soontir due to Sensors.

Redline was not what was keeping Sai out of the meta. What was keeping Sai out was that there were no ships in Empire that were so action hungry that you would be willing to spend ~50+ points to give it a focus token each turn.

Then redline is an amazing Endgame ship. He is not just a dumb hammer.

If Redline is a 1v1 vs a ship like Wedge or Thane, Redline can and will send that ship into the stone age, possibly never getting shot.

Redline is almost as difficult to chase down as Kylo. Redlines that were the most successful realized "Hey wait this is basically a supernatural ace that shoots torps"

There's actually a list I was enjoying a lot where Sai could be an interesting replacement for Redline. The previous list was

Rexler + Juke (88)
Whisper + Juke (56)
Redline + ProTorps (53)
Total: 197

Now that list costs 210, and I had been planning to run Soontir instead of Redline as the third ship (Or Duchess and add Fifth Brother to Whisper), making it a triple-ace list. But I could instead try:

Rexler + Juke (87)
Whisper + Juke (59)
Sai + ST-321 + Jamming Beam (51)
Total: 197

In the original list Redline would start out by hitting hard with a ProTorp, soaking some damage, and then she'd start dancing around the map while Rexler and Whisper did most of the work. Sai doesn't hit as hard but is still a good jouster and can draw the same initial fire, and handing out free focus is a nice bonus that could make up for some of the ways she's weaker.

I agree with the other posters that Sai and Redline are very different ships, but in this list it's a swap that could work well. Thanks for the idea!

I’ve flown a lot of Sai. Lambdas are very useful.

5 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

What was keeping Sai out was that there were no ships in Empire  that were so action hungry that you would be willing to s  pend ~50+ points to give it a focus token each turn. 

Allow me to introduce you to the TIE/x1

If you are flying any non Vader one without a Lambda you are doing it wrong.

Just now, millertime059 said:

Allow me to introduce you to the TIE/x1

If you are flying any non Vader one without a Lambda you are doing it wrong.

Strikers can be good, too.

11 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Allow me to introduce you to the TIE/x1

If you are flying any non Vader one without a Lambda you are doing it wrong

Yup. Vader, Whisper, and Sai is my go-to competitive list right now. Sai sticks with Vader and gives him a Focus, which allows Vader to save his own action/Force for other uses. With the title, Sai herself gets a double-mod, increasing her threat level to the enemy. Its a very nasty combo.

3 hours ago, millertime059 said:

I’ve flown a lot of Sai. Lambdas are very useful.

Allow me to introduce you to the TIE/x1

If you are flying any non Vader one without a Lambda you are doing it wrong.

The problem is that, prior to points, if you were flying a non-vader TIEx1, you were doing it wrong.