1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

what a nasty take.

100% fair and levelheaded. I'm not surprised you didn't like it.

22 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

100% fair and levelheaded. I'm not surprised you didn't like it.

Yes, this must be some new definition of the word "nasty" I was previously unaware of.

On 2/10/2019 at 10:00 PM, Archangelspiv said:

People have a lack of patience and think companies owe them things now. They don't. The rate that FFG are releasing waves is crazy, people are no longer talking about buying all the ships in a wave, but which ones they want to get first. They will come, you just need patience.

@Rexler Brath I am not at all surprised you are confused by this.

A little too far down the corporate apologist path here. Companies certainly do owe you some things. The should not substantially misrepresent their earnings or their products. They should not pollute the environment and be unwilling to take responsibility. They should not sell products that do not provide for a reasonable expectation of safety. Ion gas cloud availability just falls more in line with a typical marketing tactic, so yes, people feeling entitled to something that they aren't.

I can sympathize though. FFG did make a point of saying they would change this particular tactic and the overall result is pretty disappointing so far. I suppose it could be seen as a misrepresentation of the game system they thought they were buying into, but somehow I doubt this would be a big enough issue with the game that anyone in a position of authority would agree that it qualifies as substantial.

You may think that I am being trite here. Well, first of all how DARE you. After starting your own post with a dictionary definition of patience I mean lol. Second, I have known a few too many fresh MBA's that hold the absolute version of your statement about what companies owe us close to heart, even if it's not necessarily the one that you intended. So that's on me and my possibly tangentially related shattered expectations.

19 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

A little too far down the corporate apologist path here. Companies certainly do owe you some things. The should not substantially misrepresent their earnings or their products. They should not pollute the environment and be unwilling to take responsibility. They should not sell products that do not provide for a reasonable expectation of safety. Ion gas cloud availability just falls more in line with a typical marketing tactic, so yes, people feeling entitled to something that they aren't.

I can sympathize though. FFG did make a point of saying they would change this particular tactic and the overall result is pretty disappointing so far. I suppose it could be seen as a misrepresentation of the game system they thought they were buying into, but somehow I doubt this would be a big enough issue with the game that anyone in a position of authority would agree that it qualifies as substantial.

You may think that I am being trite here. Well, first of all how DARE you. After starting your own post with a dictionary definition of patience I mean lol. Second, I have known a few too many fresh MBA's that hold the absolute version of your statement about what companies owe us close to heart, even if it's not necessarily the one that you intended. So that's on me and my possibly tangentially related shattered expectations.

I reiterate my statement that, at no point did FFG state that every card and obstacle be available for everyone by wave 3, so yes, you are being entitled. CIS gets gas clouds first? Who cares? At some stage we will all get gas clouds. Could it be wave 15? Who knows. At what point did I say I play CIS? I have to wait like every other player if I don't want to buy into that faction. FFG has given you the option to buy it, you don't have to of course. I think your statements about corporations delve into the realms of extremism, so well done. We are talking plastic spaceships here, not Erin Brockovich. Ion gas are available, it's up to you if you want to buy them now or later.

"I can sympathize though. FFG did make a point of saying they would change this particular tactic and the overall result is pretty disappointing so far" - It is wave 3.... the two new factions are on the verge of release and you are saying it is disappointing? This is entitlement gone mad. I put the definition of patience in because people seem to forget what it means, they want everything now, well sometimes you can't always get what you want. If it was wave 12 or something and Ion Clouds were only available in CIS packs, i could understand, but it is wave 3, give FFG a break.

You are way beyond trite, I have known way too many fresh faced millennials that think they are owed something and are entitled to everything now.

3 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

You are way beyond trite, I have known way too many fresh faced millennials that think they are owed something and are entitled to everything now.

"Fresh faced millennials". Bless.

3 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

You are way beyond trite, I have known way too many fresh faced millennials that think they are owed something and are entitled to everything now.

uhh.... okay.

I suggest you go work in retail or service for a few summers, just so you can truly appreciate how many pathologically entitled 40-60 year-olds there out at there. Just last week while out to dinner I observed a ~50yo woman go ballistic on some teenage server because "her service was too slow and because she wanted sweet potatoes not regular potatoes (even though the server reminded her that she ordered regular potatoes, but would have been happy to switch them out had the customer asked) and that the only possible solution was to go get the manager and comp everything." I am highly suspect that there is really as much of a generational predictor for entitlement as you would like to believe, but by all means don't let us interfere with your "get off my lawn you darn kids!" mentality... I agree that the changing world and ageing can be very scary, so whatever assuages your existential dread.


It's not clear to me that anyone thinks that FFG owes us anything unwarranted 'just because WE WANT IT!" (which would be entitlement). What I've seen in this thread and others is a lot of folks basically saying "huh, it's kind of crummy that FFG implied all these vague things about how their distribution would be different in this new edition, yet looking at the releases for the first year of 2.0, it looks as if nothing about that distribution model has changed in the ways they implied that it would. And that's pretty lame and frustrating." Expecting an individual and organization to keep the spirit of their word and being disappointed when they do not it is in no way entitlement, I'd argue. I mean, like, it'd be the same as if your spouse cheated on you, and you were upset about it, and your spouse responded with "MY GOD, YOU ARE SOOOOOO ENTITLED, GET OVER IT YOU BIG BABY!"

Now, apologists have certainly offered some mental gymnastics to show how we can logically interpret the statements offered by FFG in ways that prevents them from having been violated, but as others have pointed out then that renders those promises effectively moot and means the model for 2.0 wasn't, in practice, any different from 1.0, but clearly those claims were offered in a way to indicate that things would be different this time around.

Of course, it doesn't help that there's no complete and exact record of the statements made by a variety of FFG representatives. It's possible that some of this seeming disconnect between "What FFG seemed to imply" and "how it's is now" may actually be only a disconnect between "what people interpreted and mis-remember FFG saying" and "how it is now." But until we get a historian who's willing to spend a few afternoons going back through all the Hyperspace Reports, Podcast Interviews, and Live-Stream games from last Spring... well I guess we're all just hoping our respective recollections of events are, for the most part, accurate and fair.

Regardless, it seems like we can conclude that one year into 2.0, the distribution model of 2.0's upgrades and gaming components doesn't appear to be meaningfully different from 1.0 yet. And for a lot of customers, that seems to be at odds with the impression they had formed.

10 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

we can conclude that one year into 2.0

You make it too easy

4 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I reiterate my statement that, at no point did FFG state that every card and obstacle be available for everyone by wave 3, so yes, you are being entitled. CIS gets gas clouds first? Who cares? At some stage we will all get gas clouds. Could it be wave 15? Who knows. At what point did I say I play CIS? I have to wait like every other player if I don't want to buy into that faction. FFG has given you the option to buy it, you don't have to of course. I think your statements about corporations delve into the realms of extremism, so well done. We are talking plastic spaceships here, not Erin Brockovich. Ion gas are available, it's up to you if you want to buy them now or later.

"I can sympathize though. FFG did make a point of saying they would change this particular tactic and the overall result is pretty disappointing so far" - It is wave 3.... the two new factions are on the verge of release and you are saying it is disappointing? This is entitlement gone mad. I put the definition of patience in because people seem to forget what it means, they want everything now, well sometimes you can't always get what you want. If it was wave 12 or something and Ion Clouds were only available in CIS packs, i could understand, but it is wave 3, give FFG a break.

You are way beyond trite, I have known way too many fresh faced millennials that think they are owed something and are entitled to everything now.

If they couldn't even hold back for at least the first few waves to give a positive impression, it won't get any better, gramps.

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

You make it too easy

Apparently it's not, still seems to be a little too hard to grasp.

As was noted, even if this gets addressed in the second year of 2.0 (which is a big assumption, because why not address it in the first year of products?), then how is it any different from 1.0? I mean, autothrusters and TLTs are the paradigmatic 1.0 example, and those were eventually available in other products... it just took a couple years.

So if that's how it's going to be in 2.0 then it sure seems like it' s really the same distribution modus operandi as 1.0, so why give the impression it was going to be different this time around?

4 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

You are way beyond trite, I have known way too many fresh faced millennials that think they are owed something and are entitled to everything now.

I'm glad other people have already commented on this because I think trying to make this a generational thing reflects really poorly on you.

Even if it were a valid criticism here - and I don't believe it is - self-entitlement is hardly unique to millennials.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

As was noted, even if this gets addressed in the second year of 2.0

... which starts in 7 months...

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

because why not address it in the first year of products?

The first year which ends in 7 months? And the first year that saw an addition of 4 factions? (e: and 3 waves in just 6 months, including the mentioned additional factions!)

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So if that's how it's going to be in 2.0 then it sure seems like it' s really the same distribution modus operandi as 1.0, so why give the impression it was going to be different this time around?

Can you clearly and concisely state what that different impression is?

On 2/11/2019 at 6:29 PM, Hiemfire said:

we're just past 7 months into 2.0

Where do you start counting?

Sept 13th, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb 13th gives me to the day 5 months since the core set release.

I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet (only browsed the first page), but the trick to getting those would be to spot the guy in your community who will really buy into these kits and probably buy 2 of each core sets. In which case, you can offer to buy the ion clouds from him for a few $. He saves money on his purchases and so do you. `Win / Win.

15 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet (only browsed the first page), but the trick to getting those would be to spot the guy in your community who will really buy into these kits and probably buy 2 of each core sets. In which case, you can offer to buy the ion clouds from him for a few $. He saves money on his purchases and so do you. `Win / Win.

I think at this point, it's less about actually obtaining them than it is using them to bash FFG.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

Where do you start counting?

Sept 13th, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb 13th gives me to the day 5 months since the core set release.

I miscounted, my point is that we're still early into 2.0 and don't have a full picture yet.

4 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I miscounted, my point is that we're still early into 2.0 and don't have a full picture yet.

I wholeheartedly agree! I think it's worthwile pointing out that it's even earlier

6 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

You are way beyond trite, I have known way too many fresh faced millennials that think they are owed something and are entitled to everything now.

Oooooh boy here we go

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

how many pathologically entitled 40-60 year-olds there out at there.

Agreed. I've worked at Starbucks in a pretty rich/uppity part of the Kansas City area for over two years, and younger people aren't problematic nearly as often as older people. (And guess where younger people learn behaviors from, to begin with? It's a human thing, not an age thing.)

2 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

I'm glad other people have already commented on this because I think trying to make this a generational thing reflects really poorly on you.

Even if it were a valid criticism here - and I don't believe it is - self-entitlement is hardly unique to millennials. 

(Thank)

FUN FACT

I just hate to see this misconception go by un-noted. And maybe some of you are aware, but... Millennials are actually all well into adulthood by now? I'm twenty-two, which is right on the generational line, and I actually relate more to Gen Z than Millennial. But the point is people keep complaining about college students and calling them Millennials when they're just not. Get creative. Critique actual people and their behavior, don't yell at a whole generation (meanwhile managing to lump in the next generation) for what equates to a meme of their actual culture. 🤷‍♂️

As a Millenial myself, growing up among and hanging out with other Millenials, I've seen that the stereotypes about Millenials are largely true.

However, from interacting with the rest of society, I've seen that they're true because the stereotypes apply to the majority of People in general, and Millenials are merely a subset of that.

3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

As a Millenial myself, growing up among and hanging out with other Millenials, I've seen that the stereotypes about Millenials are largely true.

However, from interacting with the rest of society, I've seen that they're true because the stereotypes apply to the majority of People in general, and Millenials are merely a subset of that.

It is admittedly fun to see that all of the Millennial stereotypes have come about due to the parenting style of the people who complain about Millennials 😜

Obviously there are plenty of other factors, such as the economy and technology, but still.

How do you think?

1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

😜It is admittedly fun to see that all of the Millennial stereotypes have come about due to the parenting style of the people who complain about Millennials

Basically:

Boomers: Millennials are a bunch of lazy entitled losers, because they grew up getting "participation trophies," ... losers.

Millennials: Umm... we were just kids and we never asked for participation trophies and it's not like we gave them to ourselves... YOU created the practice and YOU gave them to us...

Boomers: umm... umm.... quick, let's write a bunch of articles along the lines of "HOW MILLENNIALS ARE KILLING THE _______ INDUSTRY!" Stupid Millennials

Millennials: Umm, ok, so we are reflective and rational consumers? How is this a bad thing? I mean, the free-market laissez-faire capitalism that you Boomers worship so much is explicitly rooted in consumer choice and behavior as the driving force that shapes the markets? Take diamonds, for example, a lot of has come to light about the the morally harmful nature of their acquisition and how fake scarcity and insidious marketing campaigns steered social practices toward...

Boomers (frustrated): NO, no, no! You don't buy s*** because you are poor, and you are poor because you are lazy!

Millennials (taking a deep breath, pushing up their thick-framed glasses): Well actually, it's worth noting the economic changes that have occurred over the past few decades, largely as a result of "Reaganomics" and the myth of trickle down economics. For instance, since the mid-1970s, wages have stagnated, staying the same as they were over forty years ago when adjusted for inflation. Meanwhile, relative housing costs have skyrocketed a whopping 800% while the cost of higher education (now mandatory for any sort of career) has increased two-and-a-half times since the late 1980s, and even more dramatically since the mid-70s. Let's not even talk about healthcare costs... The end result is that more American households today are dual-income with both spouses in the workforce, yet are bringing in far less actual savable income than just a mere generation ago where a single-income earning was more often a realistic way for families to get by comfortably (all while the dual-income households also have to cover all the added childcare costs of both parents being out of the home). All the while, American manufacturing has been increasingly outsourced to fast-rising developing nations, namely China, willing to offer labor on pennies for the dollar often at the cost of the safety and quality of life for their work force. During all of this, the American Middle Class has been increasingly vanishing into the Working Poor as the wealth and income disparity chasm has gotten exponentially wider, with more and more of the wealth being concentrated into fewer and fewer hands over the past thirty years, rather than trickling down as was promised (e.g. in 1980, the top tenth of one percent (0.1%) of Americans earned 20 times the total combined income of the bottom 90% of Americans, while in 2012 the top tenth of one percent of Americans earned 77 times the collected earnings of the bottom 90% of Americans--to translate, in the 2010s era the richest 328,000 Americans combined earned about SEVENTY-SEVEN times more than the combined earnings of the bottom 295 million Americans... that means 295 million Americans are splitting one piece of pie, while the 328,000 richest Americans are dividing seventy-seven pieces of cake among themselves), largely made possible when the highest bracket tax rates were slashed (from over 75% in the early 1970s to 35% in the present, not that the wealthiest individuals or corporations pay anywhere near that level in practice... eg Warren Buffet has critiqued the current system noting that he only pays at an 18% rate despite making over $40 Million, while his employees making $60k are paying at at a 33% rate, almost twice as much as he himself), which also put more pressure onto Federal budgets and safety nets and social services and makes the already nearly inescapable cycle of poverty basically hopeless. All of these sorts of features, combined with criminally predatory housing, credit, and student loan industry practices have conspired to create an incredibly rigged and impossible economic system for the newest generation entering the work force that must compete like never before on a global marketplace. This is to say nothing about the environmental catastrophes and crumbling nation-wide infrastructure that will all require incredibly Herculean effort and expenditure to address over the next generation or two, assuming the growing dead zones in the ocean, insect apocalypse, and other manifestations of environmental disaster do not end civilization as we know it within the next 50 years... but when a collection of ecologists put out a dire report noting that all fish life in every corner of the worlds oceans are projected to be extinct and gone by 2050... like how optimistic can we really be? Especially with the "insect apocalypse" currently happening, where annual decreases in insect populations as high as 75% declines are being observed... so long and thanks for all the fish?

Boomers: GET OFF MY LAWN! ... (grumbling) BUNCH OF LAZY SNOWFLAKES! SO ENTITLED. HOW DARE THEY POINT OUT THAT THEIR ECONOMIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL SITUATION IS HOPELESSLY MORE DIFFICULT AND DIRE THAN ANYTHING WE GREW UP WITH, HAVING HAD THE LUXURY OF A BOOMING POST-WAR ECONOMY, ALLOWING AMERICA TO EASILY DOMINATE THE WORLD MANUFACTURING AND WORLD MARKET STAGES LARGELY BECAUSE THE ENTIRE REST OF THE DEVELOPED WORLD HAD BEEN BOMBED AND SHELLED INTO OBLIVION DURING THE WAR.


I say all this to keep the "boo young generation" perspective in check, as it's worth noting that I myself am not even a Millennial. But holy cow, has this poor generation been dealt a totally crap hand, largely through poor and selfishly short-sighted policies adopted by Boomers.

...woah.

1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:

...woah.

Still fairly accurate.

10 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Still fairly accurate.

Oh, yeah, I’m not denying anything. I just don’t know the economics behind it all off the top of my head, so. That was an impressive wall of text.

So this has gone way off topic. Mind you, I actually appreciated @AllWingsStandyingBy pointing out the conditions under which the current generation labors. Probably not going to end up in FFG suddenly releasing gas clouds in Wave V though.