10 hours ago, clanofwolves said:Tripsilons is just a simple, interesting and one trick pony list, it’s fine. There are other triple lists that will be the REAL meta problem.
One? Triple Scruggies, yeah, they’ll be cancerous in a few weeks and everyone will deem Tripsilons as a happy list in contrast.
I haven't gotten a chance to play my Skurrg since the points change, due to snowmageddon. Are they that good now?
HTD just needs to be made unique, or else ban it from Hyperspace format ala Bio codes. Extended has enough options to handle tripsilons.
I'm far more worried about dealing with 4 or 5 double-taps from y-wings or scurgg.
Drea & 4 Goons definitely has potential
13 hours ago, Max Teranous said:As Jeff said, but there’s also stuff that outjousts them. Old Teroch plus 3 VTG ships will likely take out an Upsilon round 1, with OT dying in return - but you're up on MoV and have more flexible firepower to win the fight at that point.
There are no Scum Y-wings in Hyperspace.
43 minutes ago, Boreas Mun said:There are no Scum Y-wings in Hyperspace.
The OP never mentioned hyperspace.
9 hours ago, Hiemfire said:HTD says "between" not from...
A distinction without a difference.
A huge amount of usage will include the endpoints, and only shifting down from 6 to 5 the initiative which needs to bid like mad in order to avoid getting splatted is also a non-fix.
6 hours ago, Koing907 said:I haven't gotten a chance to play my Skurrg since the points change, due to snowmageddon. Are they that good now?
I wouldn’t say they’re super good, but the generics are solid double tap engines with VTG and a turret. Lots of health to chew through and they can hit hard.
6 hours ago, Koing907 said:I haven't gotten a chance to play my Skurrg since the points change, due to snowmageddon. Are they that good now?
They will be, they will be....
28 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:I wouldn’t say they’re super good, but the generics are solid double tap engines with VTG and a turret. Lots of health to chew through and they can hit hard.
This. Scummy Rebel is on to it. He's smart...real smart.
Look, the only thing that CAN be the game's cancer has to be able to get damage in no matter what you do, be hard to take down (health or regen) and manuvreability. This is true for Tripsilons that they have the damage output and you have to chew thru a lot of health, but only for that first engagement, after that, their teeth are pretty much gone; then you simply chew on them.
The real NPE of the game will arise as they were in 1.0: Turrets (most likely) and double-tap (over average damage output) with lots of health or health that can be restored. I simply see Tripsilons as an interesting list that has lots of counter-play and will not be THE real meta monsters that suck the actual Star Wars out of the game like the destructive lists of 1.0. Trust me, please look elsewhere for the monsters, or you'll be destroyed when you see what's really got the NPE monstrous s**t on board their lists.
I only have two Skurrg, but you can fit 3 into a list with the points for Drea to give them rerolls. 3x generic + vtg + dorsal = 151 points.
2 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:I only have two Skurrg, but you can fit 3 into a list with the points for Drea to give them rerolls. 3x generic + vtg + dorsal = 151 points.
Agree @ScummyRebel, I'm telling you, it's s**t lists like ^^this^^ mess that will start REAL NPE and will be the FORESEEABLE problem FFG just seems to not understand when they design and set costs (forehead slap).
2 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:I only have two Skurrg, but you can fit 3 into a list with the points for Drea to give them rerolls. 3x generic + vtg + dorsal = 151 points.
This is derailing the thread a bit, but I found 3 a bit too hard to manage around a board with those medium bases. I like 2 Y-wings, one being Drea and 2 Scurggs. You can equip them to taste, but I like to bring Bombs on the Scurggs to discourage flanking them. They just annihilate anything that gets into a killbox.
Anyway, my 2 cents on the Trip Ups issue. I'd actually like to see it be an issue first. Lets wait until they completely dominate a larger tournament (I do not think they will), before we knee-jerk nerf them into oblivion and in turn hurt the FO. I actually think they can start with increasing Tavson by at least 3 points. He's undoubtedly the best Upsilon pilot out of the bunch and he's the 3rd cheapest. It won't kill the list, but it will limit what you can take a bit.
Or errata a clause in HST at the end "After Setup, assign 1 focus or evade token to each friendly ship at range 0-2, that does not already have that type of token." That way you can't stack them with a handful of tokens at the start.
1 minute ago, Jo Jo said:Anyway, my 2 cents on the Trip Ups issue. I'd actually like to see it be an issue first. Lets wait until they completely dominate a larger tournament (I do not think they will), before we knee-jerk nerf them into oblivion and in turn hurt the FO. I actually think they can start with increasing Tavson by at least 3 points. He's undoubtedly the best Upsilon pilot out of the bunch and he's the 3rd cheapest. It won't kill the list, but it will limit what you can take a bit.
Agreed that this list shouldn't be touched unless it tears up the mats, which it hasn't, which it wont.
Please lets hope FFG doesn't raise the prices of Upsilons, as they are simply the only support ship for FO, and Tavson is the only one moderately worth taking. H*ll, raising his cost will completely kill the FO faction for the next 6 months, if they're not already dead.
2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:A distinction without a difference.
A huge amount of usage will include the endpoints, and only shifting down from 6 to 5 the initiative which needs to bid like mad in order to avoid getting splatted is also a non-fix.
Enforcing the correct usage of the term is a good starting point and Tripsilons can't have that much of a bid without losing a fair bit their toughness or bite in that first engagement. Doubling or trippling the cost of HTD (so changing it to 4 or 6 points instead of the 2 it currently is) on top of this will finish killing the list.
3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Enforcing the correct usage of the term is a good starting point and Tripsilons can't have that much of a bid without losing a fair bit their toughness or bite in that first engagement. Doubling or trippling the cost of HTD (so changing it to 4 or 6 points instead of the 2 it currently is) on top of this will finish killing the list.
Do we want lists --that aren't world-beaters-- killed? Weird....
1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:Agreed that this list shouldn't be touched unless it tears up the mats, which it hasn't, which it wont.
I don't really agree? I don't think 3 x Upsilon is a problem in Extended, but Hyperspace is intended, at least in part, to help players new to 2nd Edition get into the Organised Play scene without their limited collections being at too great a disadvantage. If it were my first tournament and I ran into the Triple Ups NPE Express I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to come back for my second tournament.
That said, I agree that increasing the price of the Upsilons isn't the answer, I'd just like to see something that breaks the list without knackering the shuttles themselves, like, say, making Hyperspace Tracking unique.
TL DR:
I dunno.
I figure it'll depend on how thoroughly 3 B-Wings can tractor/ion them off the edge of the board. 
Let's see, "Ups" have an Agility of 1? I'd say not long at all!
46 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Enforcing the correct usage of the term is a good starting point and Tripsilons can't have that much of a bid without losing a fair bit their toughness or bite in that first engagement. Doubling or trippling the cost of HTD (so changing it to 4 or 6 points instead of the 2 it currently is) on top of this will finish killing the list.
Between you and me, I'm sure we could come up with a lot of examples of endpoint inclusive uses of the word between. Oh wait! You see what I did there?
This concept that endpoint-exclusive between is the one "correct" use of the word is, frankly, wrong. It's so very clearly wrong in a descriptivist sense, and even in a prescriptivist sense, it's really inadequate. There are usages of the word which are exclusive, and usages which are inclusive.
50 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:Do we want lists --that aren't world-beaters-- killed? Weird....
Sometimes.
Getting smashed in the face first turn--regardless of where you deploy and where the rocks are--by 4-dice double-mod attacks on ships which have so much hull that they're essentially unkillable?
Even if the ultimate winrate isn't too high, this kinda isn't what folks have in mind when "Playing X-Wing." I mean, I like my moves to matter. Maybe you get outflown, maybe you outfly someone. But lists which close the door on this possibility are kinda distasteful. The example a friend of mine always gave for why Star Trek Attack Wing was broken? Crossing the board first turn and making a 10 dice attack with full modification.
It also depends on how the list killed. I don't think anyone wants Upsilons in general to be killed, just this one specific combo which many folks consider a NPE. The right kind of targeted errata would prevent the worst form of the list.
14 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:Between you and me, I'm sure we could come up with a lot of examples of endpoint inclusive uses of the word between. Oh wait! You see what I did there?
This concept that endpoint-exclusive between is the one "correct" use of the word is, frankly, wrong. It's so very clearly wrong in a descriptivist sense, and even in a prescriptivist sense, it's really inadequate. There are usages of the word which are exclusive, and usages which are inclusive
Which is why the correct technical meaning of between should be enforced instead of the common use meaning.
I would propose that Hyperspace Tracking Data be priced based on initiative. except, the lower the ships initiative, the higher the price.
What’s the best triple upsilon list. I wanna try it.
On 2/10/2019 at 11:50 AM, Hiemfire said:They don't have to touch ship itself much, they really just need to do something about the Dormitz/Hyperspace Tracking Data combo (as you mentioned). A potent support ship is fine, a friggin pair of Mauses that start the game right in your squad's face with another buffing them isn't. The combo is the problem, not the Upsilon itself.
They could just take the tech slot off of his ship.
On 2/11/2019 at 4:18 AM, Hiemfire said:HTD says "between" not from...
It's the same thing. When asked to choose between an apple and an orange, you don't stand there confused because you think you're supposed to pick some other fruit in the middle.
6 minutes ago, Okapi said:It's the same thing. When asked to choose between an apple and an orange, you don't stand there confused because you think you're supposed to pick some other fruit in the middle.
When told to kick a ball between the posts you don't aim at the posts... Like I said technical meaning vs common usage.
1 hour ago, GILLIES291 said:They could just take the tech slot off of his ship.
That kills off a lot of other uses - like the perceptive co-pilot/advanced optics combination which makes the 'big gun' work effectively.
15 hours ago, theBitterFig said:Getting smashed in the face first turn--regardless of where you deploy and where the rocks are--by 4-dice double-mod attacks on ships which have so much hull that they're essentially unkillable?
I'm not convinced that it's completely unavoidable, but for the sake of argument it's close enough. I'm biased to start with because a TIE striker is a darn sight more nimble than most ships even without afterburners, so it's ability to go "not today, thank you" is not representative of some poor sod with Y-wings.
The 'problem elements' of the squad are two-fold: Lieutenant Dormitz and Hyperspace Tracking Data.