How does han interact with crew cards like 3PO, lando and R2-D2? Can he reroll those results before accepting them (since his ability says it does not count as a re-roll) or his ability only works for attack and defense?

Thanks!

Seems fine with R2 and Lando.

Not sure how that it would work with 3PO

There's no particular interaction with C-3PO and Han. Threepio looks only at the original defense roll, so it doesn't matter what Han does to the dice afterwards.*

With other effects like R2-D2 or Novice Technician, Han's reroll ability works fine. It can be quite potent, actually.

*This is a wicked edge case, so feel free to ignore it, but it isn't not entirely true that Han's ability has no interaction with C-3PO. If Han with C-3PO guessed 1 evade and rolled 1 evade, you'd add another evade result. If Han then wanted to use his ability, you'd also reroll the evade result you'd added, which is probably a bad idea. But it's kind of irrelevant, since if Han guesses right on C-3PO, there's pretty much no way you'd want to reroll. Maybe it wouldn't be too bad if you were defending obstructed at range 3 and rolling 3 dice.

See this is another example of why Han is worded so badly. In my local gaming area we made the decision that Han does work with C3po.

If he works with R2, and effects like rolling for damage off a rock, then why not 3PO? If Han said it was a free 'reroll' then I'd agree he wouldn't work, but it's just a 'roll' and 3PO says 'you roll exactly', it doesn't say it has to be the first result of a roll, just that it can't be a reroll.

Well that's our way of playing it anyway.

1 hour ago, xwingMinty said:

If he works with R2, and effects like rolling for damage off a rock, then why not 3PO?

3PO triggers well before Han's ability, i.e.before rolling defence dice. You guess your number and roll. And as soon as you do, 3PO checks if its conditions are met. And it is only now that you could even trigger Han.

Another way to look at it is that both 3PO's resolution effect and Han's ability effect trigger off the same game event - dice being rolled - simultaneously, and while you can stack them in either order, they both trigger using the same input variables i.e. the initial set of results.

On another note, what many may overlook is that 3PO interacts with Lando [Crew], as the former doesn't mention the dice has to be rolled as a part of defending from an attack. You could, therefore, stack up to 3 tokens using them two. If placed on Han, you'd have to correctly guess the initial amount of the evade sides to fulfil 3PO condition, then you are free to reroll all 3 die you now have available and resolve them per Lando's effect.

2 minutes ago, ryfterek said:

3PO interacts with Lando [Crew]

Yes, but only if you coordinate or otherwise have two actions (or can somehow get a calculate token without taking an action), because 3PO requires you spend a calculate token, and Lando is also an action.

4 minutes ago, lordvorkon said:

Yes, but only if you coordinate or otherwise have two actions (or can somehow get a calculate token without taking an action), because 3PO requires you spend a calculate token, and Lando is also an action.

Well, yeah, goes without saying but that's hardly a prerequisite impossible to fulfil.

Still, shout out for keeping the thread 100% readable and consistent with the rules, mate!

13 minutes ago, ryfterek said:

3PO triggers well before Han's ability, i.e.before rolling defence dice. You guess your number and roll. And as soon as you do, 3PO checks if its conditions are met. And it is only now that you could even trigger Han.

Another way to look at it is that both 3PO's resolution effect and Han's ability effect trigger off the same game event - dice being rolled - simultaneously, and while you can stack them in either order, they both trigger using the same input variables i.e. the initial set of results.

On another note, what many may overlook is that 3PO interacts with Lando [Crew], as the former doesn't mention the dice has to be rolled as a part of defending from an attack. You could, therefore, stack up to 3 tokens using them two. If placed on Han, you'd have to correctly guess the initial amount of the evade sides to fulfil 3PO condition, then you are free to reroll all 3 die you now have available and resolve them per Lando's effect.

While I disagree with you (due to my reasoning already stated), I understand what you're saying; it's just that it doesn't counter my argument that 3PO doesn't state it only applies to the first roll, just after a roll (so not a reroll).

still I understand why people would agree with you, Han isn't a well constructed card.

23 minutes ago, xwingMinty said:

3PO doesn't state it only applies to the first roll, just after a roll (so not a reroll). 

Well, if we're talking about using 3PO, rolling, then Han-rolling (not a reroll!) the dice to bend the result not satisfying the guess - well, it doesn't have to mention that as it isn't a voluntary effect to resolve. You don't "may" see if the roll result matches your guess - you have to, per the ability doesn't let you decide. So, as soon as the dice roll preceded with 3PO is done, the dice have been rolled, the effect hanging out in the ability queue kicks in.

It sure could trigger again off any further roll, only provided it still is present on the queue. But it's not, it triggered and resolved already!

Also, per 99% of the rules of the game, you simply would've had to call using 3PO again before making another roll, so then it can resolve again off that. In 99% of the cases, dice are only either rolled or re-rolled. Han being the one and only exception. Would be cumbersome, dreadful task to Han-proof each and every single other card in the game it has a corner-case with.

I see your logic, but riddle me that - if 3PO doesn't state it has to trigger of the roll directly following the use of its ability, while defending with Falcon against a swarm, can I call it on the first defence and thet wait with the effect on the queue and resolve it only once at the N th defense in this turn finally matches my guess?

A whole different story would be to question: can I call 3PO one more time before I Han my dice? As far as you ask me - no. While Han is not Rerolling the dice, it also does not Roll them. And I've capitalised the terms on purpose, as the act of physically (re)rolling the physical dice onto the table has nothing to do with the in-game terms of Roll and Reroll. What he does is neither of these - its an alteration of results that does not count as a Modification, so that it can work without triggering many general rules of the game - e.g. allowing you to change all blanks into some mix of hits and blanks and only then using your Lone Wolf on one of the results - as the particular die has not been Rerolled as per the understanding of the rulebook. I've gone into some more depths on my understanding of this ability in another thread on the forum:

7 minutes ago, ryfterek said:

Well, if we're talking about using 3PO, rolling, then Han-rolling (not a reroll!) the dice to bend the result not satisfying the guess - well, it doesn't have to mention that as it isn't a voluntary effect to resolve. You don't "may" see if the roll result matches your guess - you have to, per the ability doesn't let you decide. So, as soon as the dice roll preceded with 3PO is done, the dice have been rolled, the effect hanging out in the ability queue kicks in.

Where does it say on the 3PO card that it triggers immediately, it says after you roll, so of course that would be immediately in most cases when you can only refoll or mod the dice after, but Han does nether.

Also of course you wouldn't be able to work it for swarms or the multiple attacks, because that first Atk would be resolved before the next,

3 minutes ago, xwingMinty said:

Where does it say on the 3PO card that it triggers immediately, it says after you roll, so of course that would be immediately in most cases when you can only refoll or mod the dice after, but Han does nether.

Also of course you wouldn't be able to work it for swarms or the multiple attacks, because that first Atk would be resolved before the next,

Well, it says so simply by not mentioning you get to choose which roll you inspect? C'mon mate! The fact that Fuel Leak does not state it triggers after the first Crit you'll suffer after suffering Fuel Leak doesn't mean you get to choose which of the 2 or 3 crits coming your way it will trigger.

Get a calculate ---> Use 3PO ---> Guess a number ---> Roll --< Here it resolves, because you have just rolled so what else do we wait for? >--> 'Roll' again using Han* ---> Get coordinated ---> Use Lando ---> Roll 2nd time --< Here it doesn't resolve, because it is long gone from the queue >--> Go to defence ---> Roll --< Here it doesn't resolve again, long gone from the queue >--> Be attacked again ---> Roll --< You get the drill already, don't you? You've said it yourself >--> ...

*That's not even rolling, but still

Comn mate! Let's just agree to disagree and continue to enjoy the game. I'll continue to let the TO's at games make a ruling.

I'm all cool with that but what's the point of us actively contributing to this sub-forum then? I'm here to rule-nazi and chew bubblegum and I'm all outta gum.

Ha well when you put it like that

29 minutes ago, xwingMinty said:

Where does it say on the 3PO card that it triggers immediately, it says after you roll, so of course that would be immediately in most cases when you can only refoll or mod the dice after, but Han does nether.

Also of course you wouldn't be able to work it for swarms or the multiple attacks, because that first Atk would be resolved before the next,

That part of 3PO doesn't use the word 'after' at all. Instead, it uses the word 'before'.

Quote

Before rolling defense dice, you may spend 1 calculate token to guess aloud a number 1 or higher. If you do and you roll exactly that many [evade] results, add 1[evade] result.

You spend your calculate, you speak aloud a number, and then you roll the dice. Regardless of what other effects may be waiting in the wings, at that point you have rolled the dice so C-3PO finishes resolving. There IS no 'After you roll dice' on 3PO which you can use as a justification for resolving Han's ability before 3PO checks to see how many evade results you have rolled. C-3PO has already triggered and is in the process of resolving, so while you can put Han in the abilty queue at that point, C-3PO should still resolve as completely as possible before moving on to the next ability in the queue.

Now, if there was another 'before' effect, that could trigger and interrupt C-3PO, but there isn't.

1 minute ago, lordvorkon said:

That part of 3PO doesn't use the word 'after' at all. Instead, it uses the word 'before'. 

I guess I should've started from that when analysing the case, great catch!

28 minutes ago, lordvorkon said:

That part of 3PO doesn't use the word 'after' at all. Instead, it uses the word 'before'.

You spend your calculate, you speak aloud a number, and then you roll the dice. Regardless of what other effects may be waiting in the wings, at that point you have rolled the dice so C-3PO finishes resolving. There IS no 'After you roll dice' on 3PO which you can use as a justification for resolving Han's ability before 3PO checks to see how many evade results you have rolled. C-3PO has already triggered and is in the process of resolving, so while you can put Han in the abilty queue at that point, C-3PO should still resolve as completely as possible before moving on to the next ability in the queue.

Now, if there was another 'before' effect, that could trigger and interrupt C-3PO, but there isn't.

Again I will state my case that it says 'if you roll that many results' it doesn't say how many times you can roll that dice, just that it can't be a reroll or mod.

Sorry but I'm yet to be persuaded otherwise, although keep trying, why not.

3 minutes ago, xwingMinty said:

Again I will state my case that it says 'if you roll that many results' it doesn't say how many times you can roll that dice, just that it can't be a reroll or mod.

Sorry but I'm yet to be persuaded otherwise, although keep trying, why not.

And Han does not say 'You may choose to roll all of your dice again'. Perhaps the ability would be cleaner if it did, though!

'Other effects' are allowed to magically ignore the fact that those dice may have been rerolled previously, but that doesn't negate the fact that the word 'reroll' is used to describe what you are doing with the dice in question. Since the words 'roll again' were not used, you've 'rolled' the dice in the sense understood by the game rules exactly once, which is the precise time at which C-3PO checks for the number of results.

1 hour ago, lordvorkon said:

And Han does not say 'You may choose to roll all of your dice again'. Perhaps the ability would be cleaner if it did, though! 

Would infinite-loop off itself as any further roll would be a roll, thereby trigger Han again. Leading to the assumption he always rolls full-crit and full-evades, because you won't stop calling triggers before he does.

1 hour ago, xwingMinty said:

Again I will state my case that it says 'if you roll that many results' it doesn't say how many times you can roll that dice, just that it can't be a reroll or mod. 

1. 'Han-ing' dice is not rolling them, it's just an alternation of results that do not count as Reroll albeit it is executed as one. So 'Hanned' dice are not eligible for treatment as an alternative to the initial roll. (I'll soon edit appropriate part of my other thread's response to reflect that).
2. It does not because you can only roll once per game event in this game. Anything that happens further down the road is either a Dice Modification, Canceling a result (doesn't count as Modification) or it is Han's ability. There are no "following rolls" during one game event (e.g. defence) you can pick one from for using C3PO.
3. If it wasn't supposed to resolve immediately off from the first roll result following using the ability , then what rules prevent me from the scenario I've presented earlier - calling it once against a swarm and waiting with resolution until my guess is right? (Answer - you can't because you have to resolve the effect as soon as the roll has been performed and there are results available for comparison with the guess).
4. Again, neither Fuel Leak says how many Crits you can suffer, but we all know it simply triggers off the first one coming its way. So does 3PO resolve against the first roll performed after using the ability.

Do what the cards say, i.e. roll and see if your guess is right. Do not do what the cards do not say, i.e. ignore the roll and start shenaniganing your dice pool to create an outcome that matches your prediction, only calling the resolution of 3PO once you are satisfied. You have no control over this effect after you decide to use it and pay the price.

40 minutes ago, ryfterek said:

Would infinite-loop off itself as any further roll would be a roll, thereby trigger Han again. Leading to the assumption he always rolls full-crit and full-evades, because you won't stop calling triggers before he does.

Sure... I mean, you could still have other verbiage to apply limits, but I do see your point.

Enjoy chatting about this by yourselves.

In no possible way could Han's ability trigger C-3PO, because Han's ability isn't a roll . Just because it doesn't count as a reroll , that doesn't make it into a roll . Just because something isn't a kitten, that doesn't make it into a puppy.

9 minutes ago, xwingMinty said:

Enjoy chatting about this by yourselves.

A.k.a:

But sure, thanks, see you around here.