I have been playing huge point 1 on 1 Armada since the beginning. Not sure I ever played a 400 point game. It has ALWAYS been clear that higher priced Admirals deemed good are worth more as the point values go up.

We usually add an odd number like 650, 750, 850, 950 or 625, 725, etc. to account for the higher admiral cost.

Admirals must be point adjusted in large point games (admiral cost) / 400 x (new number)

Easy example is Akbar at 850 points.

His 38 points should be worth the following in a 850 point game = 80.75

Vs. a 20 point Admiral at 400 points who comes in at

An adjusted number of 42.5

that means a huge difference between 38-20= 18 points vs. 80.75-40.5 = 42.5

Yep, an 42.5 points is an entire ship if you don’t always choose the high priced Admirals in the larger games where their effects usually multiple.

Really each admiral should have their own value at each level because some of the Admirals MIGHT actually more devestaing than a 42.5 difference. In addition, the .25 squadron rule means those Admirals at the higher numbers might show dimishining returns after a certain point. My gut says thought needs to be put into this. I feel a disturbance, but I can’t put my finger on it. I need someone with much more experience to gauge this.

Alternatively, they could have thought about either 2 Admirals for 4 player games etc. or limited the number of ships each admiral confers benefits on by admiral.

The fact that the FF Armada working group of 1 didn’t catch this is one more indication that Armada MAY be dead to them. Maybe the dreaded Admiral was into something after-all because I am certainly starting to see some of his observations. I didn’t but a few of his posts as they got repeative, but the themes stick with me as they came to pass. FF went to their warehouse to get a scrape up a guy to keep us happy—maybe so we would still buying their other products: Destiny products where at least 75-80% of the product is dead on arrival and your investment is worth mere pennies on the dollar in just a years time. FF really can screw their games up it seems. I only play Destiny and Armada, but my friends who play many more confirm the trend.

No offense to said warehouse guy who FF got on the cheap working your way, but you screwed up big time. Don’t worry you’re not alone and you aren’t given many resources by FF so this is not entirely on you. Without a brain trust things are missed even when they pay you for 40 hours and you are expected to put in 45, 50, or even 60 or they get the next eager beaver thinking working in gaming is fun until they learn the FF way.

Most of us that have been around understand your (Armada working group of 1) plight and we know FF is cheap and greedy believing their employees to be easily replaced...case in point. They treat their customers with even less deference. They view us not only as suckers, but their model is their will be a new sucker to replace the one’s who have had enough of their cagey, unresponsive indifference. Next employee up, next customer up.

God, how I wish Cmon games etc. had the Star War game License. Nobody can screw up a game like FF. They have it down to a science. Don’t even get me on Android Netrunner a game I never had the chance to get into, but saw what they did to those poor ba$tards. Hope springs eternal amongst the downtrodden.

Oh, how I hated the Admiral when I was full of hope and excited to get into Destiny where I lost thousands of dollars on hope. I thought he was full of crap. Apparently, he was ahead of his time, well ahead of me for sure. I was always someone who never posted because I had little to say way back then, but Maybe, and I say this with some trepidation, we could use him now to give the proverbial finger to FF again.

May he come up from Davy Jones Locker. If not him, maybe someone else can do it—someone who used paragraphs would be nice.

Is this the "effects more ships" nonsense. Yes Tarkin affects more ships. Though guess what, so does Ozzel.

No you dont need to scale admiral costs. If you do that the scales titles and officers too. Or dont because that is ridiculous.

Add 5pts to TRCs because there are now more enemy ships to attack increasing their potency.

11 minutes ago, 1977Valarian said:

I have been playing huge point 1 on 1 Armada since the beginning. Not sure I ever played a 400 point game. It has ALWAYS been clear that higher priced Admirals deemed good are worth more as the point values go up.

We usually add an odd number like 650, 750, 850, 950 or 625, 725, etc. to account for the higher admiral cost.

Admirals must be point adjusted in large point games (admiral cost) / 400 x (new number)

Easy example is Akbar at 850 points.

His 38 points should be worth the following in a 850 point game = 80.75

Vs. a 20 point Admiral at 400 points who comes in at

An adjusted number of 42.5

that means a huge difference between 38-20= 18 points vs. 80.75-40.5 = 42.5

Yep, an 42.5 points is an entire ship if you don’t always choose the high priced Admirals in the larger games where their effects usually multiple.

Really each admiral should have their own value at each level because some of the Admirals MIGHT actually more devestaing than a 42.5 difference. In addition, the .25 squadron rule means those Admirals at the higher numbers might show dimishining returns after a certain point. My gut says thought needs to be put into this. I feel a disturbance, but I can’t put my finger on it. I need someone with much more experience to gauge this.

Alternatively, they could have thought about either 2 Admirals for 4 player games etc. or limited the number of ships each admiral confers benefits on by admiral.

The fact that the FF Armada working group of 1 didn’t catch this is one more indication that Armada MAY be dead to them. Maybe the dreaded Admiral was into something after-all because I am certainly starting to see some of his observations. I didn’t but a few of his posts as they got repeative, but the themes stick with me as they came to pass. FF went to their warehouse to get a scrape up a guy to keep us happy—maybe so we would still buying their other products: Destiny products where at least 75-80% of the product is dead on arrival and your investment is worth mere pennies on the dollar in just a years time. FF really can screw their games up it seems. I only play Destiny and Armada, but my friends who play many more confirm the trend.

No offense to said warehouse guy who FF got on the cheap working your way, but you screwed up big time. Don’t worry you’re not alone and you aren’t given many resources by FF so this is not entirely on you. Without a brain trust things are missed even when they pay you for 40 hours and you are expected to put in 45, 50, or even 60 or they get the next eager beaver thinking working in gaming is fun until they learn the FF way.

Most of us that have been around understand your (Armada working group of 1) plight and we know FF is cheap and greedy believing their employees to be easily replaced...case in point. They treat their customers with even less deference. They view us not only as suckers, but their model is their will be a new sucker to replace the one’s who have had enough of their cagey, unresponsive indifference. Next employee up, next customer up.

God, how I wish Cmon games etc. had the Star War game License. Nobody can screw up a game like FF. They have it down to a science. Don’t even get me on Android Netrunner a game I never had the chance to get into, but saw what they did to those poor ba$tards. Hope springs eternal amongst the downtrodden.

Oh, how I hated the Admiral when I was full of hope and excited to get into Destiny where I lost thousands of dollars on hope. I thought he was full of crap. Apparently, he was ahead of his time, well ahead of me for sure. I was always someone who never posted because I had little to say way back then, but Maybe, and I say this with some trepidation, we could use him now to give the proverbial finger to FF again.

May he come up from Davy Jones Locker. If not him, maybe someone else can do it—someone who used paragraphs would be nice.

Lawwwwwls

18 minutes ago, 1977Valarian said:

Not sure I ever played a 400 point game.

am I crazy or do the font sizes keep changing in the OP's post. I felt like alice wondering through a house and eating / drinking random things.

Well.... that wasn’t rambling or hard to follow at all...

29 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

am I crazy or do the font sizes keep changing in the OP's post. I felt like alice wondering through a house and eating / drinking random things.

You have to wear 3D glasses to get the full effect!

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/281312-the-end-of-the-dominant-400-point-discussion-tx-ssd-about-time/

And I'm still all

1 hour ago, 1977Valarian said:

The fact that the FF Armada working group of 1 didn’t catch this is one more indication that Armada MAY be dead to them. Maybe the dreaded Admiral was into something after-all because I am certainly starting to see some of his observations. I didn’t but a few of his posts as they got repeative, but the themes stick with me as they came to pass. FF went to their warehouse to get a scrape up a guy to keep us happy—maybe so we would still buying their other products: Destiny products where at least 75-80% of the product is dead on arrival and your investment is worth mere pennies on the dollar in just a years time. FF really can screw their games up it seems. I only play Destiny and Armada, but my friends who play many more confirm the trend.

No offense to said warehouse guy who FF got on the cheap working your way, but you screwed up big time. Don’t worry you’re not alone and you aren’t given many resources by FF so this is not entirely on you. Without a brain trust things are missed even when they pay you for 40 hours and you are expected to put in 45, 50, or even 60 or they get the next eager beaver thinking working in gaming is fun until they learn the FF way. 

1) Brooks has been testing Armada since the beginning. He's an awesome dude. But sure, throw some shade at a guy you know nothing about and are assuming much. I don't know a single tester that hadn't loved having Brooks leading testing.

2) This was not tested by one guy.

3) It's a "for fun" format. Brooks didn't screw anything up. We're not going to waste time re-pointing commanders for a casual format.

First claims Armada should be more than 400 points standard.

Next admits never playing 400 point games (Where the game is best balanced.)

Now claims he knows what's best in a big point battle with Admirals that should cost more while at the same time adding extra points for said Admiral point increases.

WE ARE NOT WORTHY OF YOUR WISDOM NOR THE GREAT ADMIRAL NELSON!

I played Tarkin on the Soverign at 800 points (single commander per side) and he was pretty good. His ISD title granted token flexibility and the cost was reasonable for the benefit. It isn't at 400 points.

Great! A reason to take Tarkin. It would be a shame to price him out of usefulness again. Garm & Ahsoka likewise so it works for both factions.

3 hours ago, 1977Valarian said:

Admirals

admiral

Admirals (admiral)

Admiral

Admirals

admiral

Admirals

Admirals

Admirals

admiral

admiral

Admiral

Admiral

Nelson?

4 hours ago, 1977Valarian said:

I have been playing huge point 1 on 1 Armada since the beginning. Not sure I ever played a 400 point game. It has ALWAYS been clear that higher priced Admirals deemed good are worth more as the point values go up.

We usually add an odd number like 650, 750, 850, 950 or 625, 725, etc. to account for the higher admiral cost.

Admirals must be point adjusted in large point games (admiral cost) / 400 x (new number)

Easy example is Akbar at 850 points.

His 38 points should be worth the following in a 850 point game = 80.75

Vs. a 20 point Admiral at 400 points who comes in at

An adjusted number of 42.5

that means a huge difference between 38-20= 18 points vs. 80.75-40.5 = 42.5

Yep, an 42.5 points is an entire ship if you don’t always choose the high priced Admirals in the larger games where their effects usually multiple.

Really each admiral should have their own value at each level because some of the Admirals MIGHT actually more devestaing than a 42.5 difference. In addition, the .25 squadron rule means those Admirals at the higher numbers might show dimishining returns after a certain point. My gut says thought needs to be put into this. I feel a disturbance, but I can’t put my finger on it. I need someone with much more experience to gauge this.

Alternatively, they could have thought about either 2 Admirals for 4 player games etc. or limited the number of ships each admiral confers benefits on by admiral.

The fact that the FF Armada working group of 1 didn’t catch this is one more indication that Armada MAY be dead to them. Maybe the dreaded Admiral was into something after-all because I am certainly starting to see some of his observations. I didn’t but a few of his posts as they got repeative, but the themes stick with me as they came to pass. FF went to their warehouse to get a scrape up a guy to keep us happy—maybe so we would still buying their other products: Destiny products where at least 75-80% of the product is dead on arrival and your investment is worth mere pennies on the dollar in just a years time. FF really can screw their games up it seems. I only play Destiny and Armada, but my friends who play many more confirm the trend.

No offense to said warehouse guy who FF got on the cheap working your way, but you screwed up big time. Don’t worry you’re not alone and you aren’t given many resources by FF so this is not entirely on you. Without a brain trust things are missed even when they pay you for 40 hours and you are expected to put in 45, 50, or even 60 or they get the next eager beaver thinking working in gaming is fun until they learn the FF way.

Most of us that have been around understand your (Armada working group of 1) plight and we know FF is cheap and greedy believing their employees to be easily replaced...case in point. They treat their customers with even less deference. They view us not only as suckers, but their model is their will be a new sucker to replace the one’s who have had enough of their cagey, unresponsive indifference. Next employee up, next customer up.

God, how I wish Cmon games etc. had the Star War game License. Nobody can screw up a game like FF. They have it down to a science. Don’t even get me on Android Netrunner a game I never had the chance to get into, but saw what they did to those poor ba$tards. Hope springs eternal amongst the downtrodden.

Oh, how I hated the Admiral when I was full of hope and excited to get into Destiny where I lost thousands of dollars on hope. I thought he was full of crap. Apparently, he was ahead of his time, well ahead of me for sure. I was always someone who never posted because I had little to say way back then, but Maybe, and I say this with some trepidation, we could use him now to give the proverbial finger to FF again.

May he come up from Davy Jones Locker. If not him, maybe someone else can do it—someone who used paragraphs would be nice.

Sir, this is a Wendy's drive-thru.

2 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Sir, this is a Wendy's drive-thru.

I'll take a Double Triple Bossy Deluxe on a raft, 4x4 animal style, extra shingles with a shimmy and a squeeze, light axle grease; make it cry, burn it, and let it swim.

Lost me at “Must”.

I knew the forums had been far too positive since that article, this is more like it 😂

8 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

I'll take a Double Triple Bossy Deluxe on a raft, 4x4 animal style, extra shingles with a shimmy and a squeeze, light axle grease; make it cry, burn it, and let it swim.

No, this is Patrick.

2 hours ago, geek19 said:

No, this is Patrick.

You forgot the pickles.

I didn’t forget the freaking pickles!

Furthermore, if the guy formally in the warehouse doing free work has been in the test team for a long time, he and the rest (Donner party of one), have done a very, very poor job: look no further than A) the completely stupid transport activations B) that imperial ship with domes that I don’t even know it’s name because it suchs so much, and C) the Victory point costs. Look, I don’t know what the solution was for the transports, but it drove away most of the old timers I was playing with at the time. FF found a way to sell a lot of plastic with that one. That fact that is went in for so long was I think one of the dumbest things I have ever seen in gaming—granted, I only play a few, but my father who is 42 years old and does play a lot of them agrees. You have to look no further than the end with that mistake that was allowed to linger.

Maybe they realized the outrage of the guy who went and bought 5 transports of a single faction needed to have some time to play with them. Fine. I don’t presume to have the solution, but maybe they could have...cough, cough...realized that in playtesting that it was not anything like people imagined the game to be. It was at that point that my father and I just would set up sized and whoever made both teams let the other pick. No more rock, paper, scissors and no more silly transports flying all over the place like we saw going over to one house. That day driving back we lacked that it was indeed the end for Armada in some sense. The various FLGS’s that I went to no longer carried Armada just 4-6 months after, if memory serves correct. Maybe sooner..maybe longer.

Many of these issues could have been taken care up with a simple update. However, many competitive players use what ever tools are available to solve the puzzle and care not for theme or actual play experience. Most players are casual players so this team that he is supposedly apart of with maybe another dude (like this other apparent bum above in terms of this game, not in life) has failed casual players.

I will happily concede my lack of experience on the matter, but note many Admirals just get more mileage at 800 points. If nothing, they could offer just two separate point values just for player point value of say 800 and 1200 in a revised version of what was put online.

For many people, dare I GUESS the majority, have always played at higher point values. The fact that FF and this so called dedicated warehouse promoted guy (who I am sure is sweet and swell and all) never did crap for the causal folks at higher point values until they had a $200 model to sell is crap.

If Tarken is less than effective give the simple model proposed, that is on FF not me. However, anyone thinking you should continue to talk down to the non-competitive people who buy enough of this crap to keep it barely alive, you should think twice. The casual X-wing and Armada players most likely out purchase the competitive players by a massive margin. Those older guys than us have tons of money to spend having had jobs and a saving for a long time. They have less time, don’t want to spend their time from what I understand talking to them at conventions at FLGS, and also have kids who they play with with obligations.

So these dads are responsible for most of the expenditures and when the game went to crap, they stopped buying and moved on. That is on warehouse Johnny and the supposed other guy who helps him to keep those people engaged. That told those old guys to suck it long ago.

I have warehouse job to get back to, where no one is pulling me out of the back to create subpar things, so peace out.

Admiral, admiral, admiral....**** it didn’t work like Candyman. Maybe is was a crappy mirror or I was spinning too fast when I said it. Apparently, the Kraken has turned to stone.

The font was cool and you do have to use 3D glasses with those flip things from invented by Ben Frank. Like in National Treasure to see the inscription...

18 hours ago, 1977Valarian said:

Oh, how I hated the Admiral when I was full of hope and excited to get into Destiny where I lost thousands of dollars on hope. I thought he was full of crap. Apparently, he was ahead of his time, well ahead of me for sure. I was always someone who never posted because I had little to say way back then, but Maybe, and I say this with some trepidation, we could use him now to give the proverbial finger to FF again.

May he come up from Davy Jones Locker. If not him, maybe someone else can do it—someone who used paragraphs would be nice.

Cmon, it has to be you, Admiral, right? (You can tell us. We won't tell a soul.)

15 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Cmon, it has to be you, Admiral, right? (You can tell us. We won't tell a soul.)

The funny thing is that it might actually be.

Compared a classic Admiral post to this latest tirade with this tool. From the site:

Quote

This number, called a language style matching, or LSM score, ranges from about .50 to 1.00. The closer you are to 1.00, the more in synch the two of you are.

And...

... these posts remind me of cyber awareness training...

I didn’t consider any of your post presented in the normal font, but I did translate the inflated portions into proper English while changing the punctuations until made sense to me. Having done so, I assume the rest of your text should be taken the same way. I agree that FFG has made a fun, challenging, evokative Star Wars game while walking that fine line between game balance and giving iconic ships stats that “feel right.” Well said!