Just saw a hyperspace list with 5x Strikers and Wampa going around, 18 red dice that don't need to fly together looks pretty terrifying!

How would you tackle this? In Rebels and Resistance are the ship counts simply too low to deal with this level of efficiency and offense?

Isolate, PS kill, repeat (strikers in particular die easy), but it's gonna be a bit of a variance crapshoot, the quality and spikiness of their red dice will make a huge difference.

Pretty similar to the list Dallas Parker was trying out in early 2e: 5x Interceptors + Wampa. There's also a handy one-conversion-kit variant: 3x Strikers, 2x Interceptors, Wampa.

Anyhow, you do it same way that lower ship count lists have always done it against massed generics: dodge arcs and I-Kill stuff. I mean, that's kinda flippant, and it won't always work. But this is a far more conventional list than say, Triple Upsilon, where there's nothing you can really do to avoid an early killbox. With a 6-ship heavy swarm, it'll be hard to avoid traps, but it'll come down to relative player skill.

6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

...it's gonna be a bit of a variance crapshoot...

This too.

Planning moves for 5 Strikers:

16 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Planning moves for 5 Strikers:

🤨 It ain't that bad, no different from preplanning AdvSens boosts for multiple ships really.

14 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 It ain't that bad, no different from preplanning AdvSens boosts for multiple ships really.

Right, cause everybody and their dog used to fly 5x AdvSens swarm for days in the good old times. 🤔

I would imagine against competitive lists, the list would lose 1-2 ships before they shoot. Even 5 Resistance A-Wings with Advanced Optics and Trick shot should probably be able to shred the list.

Its hard for strikers to stay together for too long. Use the rocks to divide them, then pick em apart. They have to aileron, they dont have a choice, so going around rocks in a formation is extremely difficult for them. They are super crafty in open spaces with the ailerons, but tight rocks leave them fewer good options, and maybe even forced to rock themselves and do 25% damage to their ship.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Isolate, PS kill, repeat (strikers in particular die easy), but it's gonna be a bit of a variance crapshoot, the quality and spikiness of their red dice will make a huge difference.

Yup! Even if you fly it well and execute the opening engagement you want, where you get multiple blocks and range one shots with focus from your entire squad, you can then proceed to roll 5 paint on something like 17 dice on attack. And in return take 4+ damage from unmodified shots.

Ive flown a variant with Del Meeko instead of Wampa, and it can absolutely kill things. And it can also just die. If the dice on the opening shots go strongly against you, it’s probably game over.

That said quad protorp I4+ lists have been neutered some. Jonus, Rhymer, Redline, Deathrain is dead, and so the things that hurt it most, and were very common, are somewhat reduced.

The TIE Striker generics are the most overrated ships in Hyperspace. The aces are clutch but the low agility, low PS, and lack of crit mitigation means that they're very susceptible to variance, which, combined with the mandatory Ailerons move means that you have to invest a lot of time and effort into flying them well for...

a 3 dice primary.

I'd rather bring any of the conditional 3 dice LN's (Gideon, Wampa, Mauler, Scourge) for:
1) Less points
2) More agility
3) Higher PS (save for Wampa).

2 hours ago, impspy said:

The TIE Striker generics are the most overrated ships in Hyperspace. The aces are clutch but the low agility, low PS, and lack of crit mitigation means that they're very susceptible to variance, which, combined with the mandatory Ailerons move means that you have to invest a lot of time and effort into flying them well for...

a 3 dice primary.

I'd rather bring any of the conditional 3 dice LN's (Gideon, Wampa, Mauler, Scourge) for:
1) Less points
2) More agility
3) Higher PS (save for Wampa).

I found the rebel player.

6 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

I found the rebel player.

I’m an Empire player, and I agree! I fly Striker Aces all the time, and have given generic swarms lots of tries. They can work, but they are a very high variance list.

I was so hoping they would drop I1 Strikers a point so six would fit. I still think they’d be very killable. I guess I’ll have to settle for this Wampa nonsense for now!

Just joust them with my 6/6/7 Triple X Alpha Strike; It's got 11 attack dice, so it's got some teeth to chew through a swarm. Strikers drop like flies, so ideally, you should be able to kill 1 - 1.5 ships per turn. Keep up this rate and you'll win. If you don't kill one of their ship before it shoots, then you're probably going to lose. It's pretty simple. Raw value at low initiatives has a pretty low skill ceiling; you can only really push it so far.

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 7:00 PM, FriendofYoda said:

How would you tackle this? In Rebels and Resistance are the ship counts simply too low to deal with this level of efficiency and offense?

Speaking as a Striker Devotee, the weaknesses of the ship:

1. If fitting in Wampa as well, you haven't got shield or hull upgrades. 4 hull with 2 green dice is still hard to one-shot, but it's well within the possibility for two ships to kill with 3-dice primary weapons. At range 1, getting 2 kills is not impossible, and that takes away the bulk of their numerical edge, and (hopefully) means you're too close for the entire force to concentrate fire - which is where they get their kills, @millertime059 's ability to roll 12 blanks on 17 red dice notwithstanding....).
2. The TIE striker's biggest weakness is a ludicrously high minimum speed and a wide turning circle (whilst it can do impressive slew turns, the tightest 'opener' to any move is a speed 1 bank, meaning against 'proper' TIE fighters, A-wings, and so on, it's in trouble in a tight turning match.
3. Obstacles are a real pain - especially rocks - firstly because they're hard to avoid (see '2') but also because Adaptive Ailerons is a manoeuvre not a boost - meaning you can potentially hit the same rock twice during your activation. Unexpectedly dumping Loose Cargo with Rigged Cargo Chute can really do a number on a striker, and trying to avoid mines is really hard.
4. That goes double since a striker's dial is very sensitive to stress. Less so than in first edition (speed 2 blue banks are a godsend ) but you go from a white dial which compares favourably to an autothrusters-equipped interceptor or silencer and probably the best red dial in the game, to a blue dial which is equivalent to a T-65 X-wing who accidentally left its astromech back in the hangar.
5. The high minimum speed is also a problem when flying in formation with multiple ship types. A TIE fighter cannot effectively fly in formation with strikers. Granted it doesn't have to fly base-to-base, but the TIE fighter is massively slower in cornering, and even keeping its arc pointed the same way isn't easy - especially since a TIE/ln lacks a talon roll or segnor but is instead nailed to the straight-line koiogran.

Resistance can actually match this squad for numbers - 6 RZ-2 A-wings with Heroic, for example, fit into a squad perfectly - and offer some nasty options and remarkably reliable firepower for a ship with only 2 dice (since you can rotate your guns and get focused shots rather than flipping the ship and firing unmodified dice, and it's almost impossible for you to blank out).

Anything which can tank multiple hits per attack can probably do a number on them, too. Vennie is a good case in point; Vennie with Rey and Perceptive Copilot takes a heck of a lot of effort to hurt despite his low agility, and launched bombs can really limit the viable attack routes for a heavy swarm.

I think X-wings will probably struggle most of the Resistance's options. Even cutting them back to a bare minimum, you can only get 4 X-wings to 6 enemy ships, and if you want the initiative to shoot first, you're basically limited to 4 Red Squadron Experts with Predator. 3 T-70s have a chance - anything has a chance - but you'll have to fly very, very well to overcome the tyranny of numbers (although Resistance X-wings like Nien, Ello and Snap can dance as well or better than the strikers)

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 7:56 PM, Jo Jo said:

Planning moves for 5 Strikers:

I'm actually planning to try it out without "Wampa", because I don't think that squad has enough potential to hurt my brain.

x5

For sheer weight of shots, good durability and above average initiative for a "swarm" I was thinking this would be my "anti-swarm" mini-swarm +Ace

Gold Squadron Veteran - (33)
Expert Handling (2)
Ion Cannon Turret (4)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)
Gold Squadron Veteran - (33)
Expert Handling (2)
Ion Cannon Turret (4)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)
•Wedge Antilles - (52)
Afterburners (6)
•“Dutch” Vander - (39)
Ion Cannon Turret (4)
R3 Astromech (3)
Veteran Turret Gunner (6)

Total: 200/200

This vs Striker/Whampa side by side Comparison

Potential Red Dice At Range 3: 9 vs 18

Potential Red Dice at Range 2: 18 vs 18

Potential Red Dice at Range 1: 25 vs 24

Hull/Shields: 21/8 vs 23/0

If your opponent is taking unequipped strikers, ion weapons will mess with them something rotten (since adaptive ailerons is "before you reveal your dial" not "before you activate")

I'd be worried about having enough dice modifiers to support that many shots, though. Dutch can if he splits his fire, and whoever he hands a lock to can, but the other veteran may struggle with naked dice rolls on at least one attack.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Speaking as a Striker Devotee, the weaknesses of the ship:

1. If fitting in Wampa as well, you haven't got shield or hull upgrades. 4 hull with 2 green dice is still hard to one-shot, but it's well within the possibility for two ships to kill with 3-dice primary weapons. At range 1, getting 2 kills is not impossible, and that takes away the bulk of their numerical edge, and (hopefully) means you're too close for the entire force to concentrate fire - which is where they get their kills, @millertime059 's ability to roll 12 blanks on 17 red dice notwithstanding....).
2. The TIE striker's biggest weakness is a ludicrously high minimum speed and a wide turning circle (whilst it can do impressive slew turns, the tightest 'opener' to any move is a speed 1 bank, meaning against 'proper' TIE fighters, A-wings, and so on, it's in trouble in a tight turning match.
3. Obstacles are a real pain - especially rocks - firstly because they're hard to avoid (see '2') but also because Adaptive Ailerons is a manoeuvre not a boost - meaning you can potentially hit the same rock twice during your activation. Unexpectedly dumping Loose Cargo with Rigged Cargo Chute can really do a number on a striker, and trying to avoid mines is really hard.
4. That goes double since a striker's dial is very sensitive to stress. Less so than in first edition (speed 2 blue banks are a godsend ) but you go from a white dial which compares favourably to an autothrusters-equipped interceptor or silencer and probably the best red dial in the game, to a blue dial which is equivalent to a T-65 X-wing who accidentally left its astromech back in the hangar.
5. The high minimum speed is also a problem when flying in formation with multiple ship types. A TIE fighter cannot effectively fly in formation with strikers. Granted it doesn't have to fly base-to-base, but the TIE fighter is massively slower in cornering, and even keeping its arc pointed the same way isn't easy - especially since a TIE/ln lacks a talon roll or segnor but is instead nailed to the straight-line koiogran.

Resistance can actually match this squad for numbers - 6 RZ-2 A-wings with Heroic, for example, fit into a squad perfectly - and offer some nasty options and remarkably reliable firepower for a ship with only 2 dice (since you can rotate your guns and get focused shots rather than flipping the ship and firing unmodified dice, and it's almost impossible for you to blank out).

Anything which can tank multiple hits per attack can probably do a number on them, too. Vennie is a good case in point; Vennie with Rey and Perceptive Copilot takes a heck of a lot of effort to hurt despite his low agility, and launched bombs can really limit the viable attack routes for a heavy swarm.

I think X-wings will probably struggle most of the Resistance's options. Even cutting them back to a bare minimum, you can only get 4 X-wings to 6 enemy ships, and if you want the initiative to shoot first, you're basically limited to 4 Red Squadron Experts with Predator. 3 T-70s have a chance - anything has a chance - but you'll have to fly very, very well to overcome the tyranny of numbers (although Resistance X-wings like Nien, Ello and Snap can dance as well or better than the strikers)

This is great information and very much appreciated, I've been trying to get the following list to work in Hyperspace but I've still had a few issues.

Vennie: Per Cop, VTG

Poe: R4, HLC, B1, S-Foils, Heroic

Lulo: Heroic, Optics

I feel like my firepower is fine but I haven't quite worked out a solid approach with it, vs Strikers and other highly mobile lists like the 4xI5 Resistance list

52 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

If your opponent is taking unequipped strikers, ion weapons will mess with them something rotten (since adaptive ailerons is "before you reveal your dial" not "before you activate")

I'd be worried about having enough dice modifiers to support that many shots, though. Dutch can if he splits his fire, and whoever he hands a lock to can, but the other veteran may struggle with naked dice rolls on at least one attack.

True which is why I have been toying with swapping Wedge for Garvin and adding hull or shields to some Y's