I think that Defenders are one of the most overlooked ships. I played Rexler, Echo and Whisper, did fairly well and had a ton of fun before the points were adjusted.

Now I really want to bring the good, old Defender back to the table. Unfortunately I really struggle when building a list with the chassis.

Do you guys have some ideas or have you even tested stuff that worked?

With the point decrease I might try 2 Deltas with FCS, Wampa and Nightbeast.

My prediction is each patch will cheapen Defenders somewhat, so about a year down the road they will be good.

Talking aces, Soontir and Duchess with Pedator fly great with Rexy with AS.

Sexy Rexy

(52) Soontir Fel
(2) Predator
Points 54

(82) Rexler Brath
(10) Advanced Sensors
(5) Juke
Points 97

(42) "Duchess"
(2) Predator
Points 44

Total points: 195

This is good too, have had decent success with it.

Vynder + Vessy

(52) Soontir Fel
(2) Predator
Points 54

(86) Colonel Vessery
(5) Juke
Points 91

(39) Major Vynder
(0) Xg-1 Assault Configuration
(5) Ion Cannon
(3) Advanced SLAM
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points 55

Total points: 200

I keep thinking about an FCS Delta as... not exactly a filler ship due to price of 72 points, but something like a filler.

Soontir (Predator) (54) and Redline (Proton Torpedo, Advanced Sensors) (74), with an FCS Delta is 200.

Whisper (Juke, Fifth Brother) (68) with an FCS Delta and Soontir (Predator), or Vynder (season to taste, I kinda think this is cool: Proton Torpedo/FCS/Advanced SLAM/OS-1) (56) for 194 or 196 points respectively. Ditch 5th Brother from Whisper, and it could be her with just Juke, Soontir with Predator, and Rexler Brath with just Juke, in stead of a Delta.

Vader (Hate, FCS, Afterburners) (76) and Lieutenant Sai (ST-321) (51)

//

The basic premise: Standard Endgame Piece, Delta, and Early-threat. Delta kinda seems like the "ingore" ship for the opponent, right? Full token stack, and there's an easier to kill and scarier Redline right there, or Sai, or such... But if the Delta lives too long, it kinda becomes an oddball endgame piece. Strong tokens, those K-turns, a lock which won't quit... seems like it could duel OK.

Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

One idea I have in my mind is ...

(82) Rexler Brath
(5) Juke
Points 87

(52) Soontir Fel
(2) Predator
Points 54

(47) Lieutenant Sai
(4) ST-321
Points 51

Total points: 192

With Sais coordinate, Rexler can perform 3 actions, which also lets sai perform 2-3 actions. This will solve the high ini Defenders problem of being pretty predictable. The option of pre movement boosting or barrel rolling gives Rexler a ton of options and makes it nearly impossible for your opponent, to let him bump (which Defenders hate).

Juke Rex

Juke 5th Bro Whisper

And a reaper coordinating and jamming and blocking is a pretty good list.

I’ve flown Defenders a bit in both 1.0 and 2.0. I’ll say this: it is an absolute MUST to either have AS or a coordinate due to their very predictable flight patterns.

Or at least, it greatly helps. Also don’t get too flanky with them. Fly them right down their throats. Love flying right at a swarm, taking a couple shields worth of damage, then he tries blocking me so I boost before doing my k turn.

Satisfaction Achieved...

I've tried a couple of lists with Rexler and two aces, but I can't seem to get it to work. Maybe it's just my playstyle, but I think I need an anvil to my hammer; a tempting target but ultimately unimportant ships to make sure my then-unkillable aces make it to the late game. For Rexler I think that anvil might be Sai, but it's possible Vizier or Feroph could work just as well. Or just a bunch of ships:

Rexler Brath

• Juke
• Fire-Control System
• Jamming Beam

Alpha Squadron Pilot

• Afterburners (because why not!)

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Total: 200

If you like, swap out the Alpha for an Inquisitor (FCS), a Tempest (FCS) or Iden (naked), or maybe try this:

Rexler Brath

• Juke
• Jamming Beam

Scourge Skutu

• Crack Shot

Mauler Mithel

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Total: 200

In any case, the general idea is to present enough targets to draw attention away from Rexler so he can stick around until he's basically impossible to take down. Never mind the 2 point decrease he got; his biggest buffs came in the form for more expensive 1) Proton Torpedoes (the only weapon to reliably penetrate 3 greens + evade + focus) and 2) Supernatural Reflexes (the only upgrade to reliably make an ace capable of keeping up with a k-turning Defender).

I will be trying Rex, Echo and Vermeil at some point in the near future. All with Juke, plus Tac Officer for Verm and FCS for Rex.

Flew it several times with an Onyx and extra gubbins for Echo and Vermeil but would probably be just overall better with Rex.

Another one I had fun with was APT Rhymer in for the Reaper. He existed purely to buy space for Rex and a fatter Echo to do their relentless thing.

Just never trade Rex early....

Addendum- tbh, I found Rex and a fat Echo can handle almost anything on their own. They just need some poor sacrificial fool to provide a distraction.

All the others feel more like mid game damage sponges to me. Which requires a bit more thought on squad composition, as bitterfig notes.

I've stupidly tempted myself to try this now.

TIE/ln Fighter - •Seyn Marana - 31 •Seyn Marana - Inferno Four (30) Marksmanship (1)

TIE/ph Phantom - •“Echo” - 73 •“Echo” - Slippery Trickster (50) Trick Shot (2) Collision Detector (6) Afterburners (6) •Fifth Brother (9)

TIE/D Defender - •Rexler Brath - 95 •Rexler Brath - Onyx Leader (82) Swarm Tactics (3) Advanced Sensors (10) Total: 199/200

No actual idea of how to fly it of course. Avoid getting Echo or Rex alpha'd and hope to get Seyn to card at least one ship before she gets sold, I guess.

Even if Rex and Seyn get obliterated in 2 turns, that Echo should be able to handle the rest.....

14 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

Talking aces, Soontir and Duchess with Pedator fly great with Rexy with AS.

Sexy Rexy

(52) Soontir Fel
(2) Predator
Points 54

(82) Rexler Brath
(10) Advanced Sensors
(5) Juke
Points 97

(42) "Duchess"
(2) Predator
Points 44

Total points: 195

I got really excited to see this list, I am not as familiar with Defenders and Soontir. However I love Duchess, so here is my take.

I've found that even with nothing but FCS they can get some serious work done. I flew against a Ryad with FCS (no Juke) and she was very, very hard to kill in the endgame. Once they have a lock you can just do K turns or longer moves and against one shot you're generally taking 1 to 0 damage (you can generally either get two or three results or at least dodge with an evade and focus, then shoot bak with a reroll as a mod.) You become incredibly tanky, and if you have the points, slap juke on there if you want.

56 minutes ago, Glattyator said:

Rexler  Brath — TIE/D Defender 82 Juke 5  Fire-Control System 2 Ship Total: 89 Half Points: 45 Threshold: 4 “Duchess” — TIE/sk Striker 42 Juke 5 Fifth Brother 9 Ship Total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 2 Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 52 Predator 2  Ship Total: 54   Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2  

I think the bid could be a problem here. All 3 of your ships want to move last. Especially Duchess can go down extremely fast. She’s 59 pts. In that case I’d rather take whisper or echo. I prefer keeping all strikers at a low cost.

1 minute ago, Ryuneke said:

I think the bid could be a problem here. All 3 of your ships want to move last. Especially Duchess can go down extremely fast. She’s 59 pts. In that case I’d rather take whisper or echo. I prefer keeping all strikers at a low cost.

Fair argument since I've only flown defenders a handful of times, if you haven't tried Duchess in that build I highly recommend. Currently undefeated in organized play with her and bro with no bid problems

If you want even more unpredictable maneuvers:

This allows some surprising maneuvers:

1) Hit on the first round: you deploy with Rex facing sideways. The reaper coordinates a barrel roll, effectively moving Rex towards the enemy. Ciena allows a 90° turn, Rex now suddenly points towards the enemy ships. Rex clears the stress token from the 90° turn by flying 5 forward (blue maneuver!). You can even boost then, meaning you will be able to hit on the first round, unless the enemy ships have moved sideways or dialled in a stop.

2) Turn 180° on the spot: a coordinated boost to the left or right + 90° turn + 1 bank to clear the stress + barrel roll means you have effectively turnd on the spot by 180°.

3) Horizontal sliding (though you're not longer facing exactly the same direction): barrel roll + 90° rotate + 5 straight + boost right/left and you've suddenly moved horizontally across half the board.

I suspect that any list containing Ciena Ree needs a lot of practice to intuitively see the opportunities given a certain situation. Players not used to play against her might have a hard time determining what moves they themselves should dial in. I'm not yet that good with Ciena Ree-lists, but then again I'm not that good with any list 😉

The reaper also has a coordinate, like the shuttle. You could also use the shuttle + e.g. Collision Detector, but then you'd loose any ini bid. Of course, the list above also doesn't have such a large ini bid...

The jamming beam is in because it's free and might come handy once in a while.

2 hours ago, Glattyator said:

I got really excited to see this list, I am not as familiar with Defenders and Soontir. However I love Duchess, so here is my take.

Rexler Brath — TIE/D Defender 82
Juke 5
Fire-Control System 2
Ship Total: 89
Half Points: 45 Threshold: 4
“Duchess” — TIE/sk Striker 42
Juke 5
Fifth Brother 9
Ship Total: 56
Half Points: 28 Threshold: 2
Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 52
Predator 2
Ship Total: 54
Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2
The build I am very familiar with, Duchess gives max versatility with Fifth Brother + juke. Essentially you always have a focus with Bro's force token and taking an evade action every turn gives you excellent offense with damage mitigation for defense. Rex at a cost of 97 for me is too much for the 6 total damage a def can weather. I can appreciate the AS for the red maneuver flexibility, but the following turn you HAVE to take a limited blue maneuver. With the ships ability giving you an evade id take the cost reduction of 8 points (Allowing you afford Fifth Bro and Juke on Duchess) for FCS and juke giving better die rolls on attack as well as evade help on def with those sexy 3 def die. Soontir wouldn't change anything at that price, have flown against him many times and watched that ace rack up more points of damage than he is worth.

The problem with defenders at high PS is NOT that they are using AS to take action before a red maneuver. It’s because they’re so dang predictable they’re easy to block. They rely on their maneuver dial for their action economy (as opposed to Vader or Fel).

AS is used to avoid bumping by a nifty BR or boost before you do your 4K or whatever. It won’t stress you.

And.... they have 7 HP.

FCS is good too tho.

3 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

The problem with defenders at high PS is NOT that they are using AS to take action before a red maneuver. It’s because they’re so dang predictable they’re easy to block. They rely on their maneuver dial for their action economy (as opposed to Vader or Fel).

AS is used to avoid bumping by a nifty BR or boost before you do your 4K or whatever. It won’t stress you.

And.... they have 7 HP.

FCS is good too tho.

Thanks for the input, ill have to spend sometime to get the hang of Defenders.

I knew I said 6 HP! Didn't look hard enough when I was editing

Has anyone considered Major Vynder as an alternative Torp carrier in order to fit the list now that Redline has gone up in points? Of course he is not as good, but with Adv. Slam, Os-1 loadout and 3 Defence dice he won't be that bad I think...

Rexler Brath — TIE/D Defender 82
Juke 5
Fire-Control System 2
Ship Total: 89
Half Points: 45 Threshold: 4

Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 52
Predator 2
Ship Total: 54
Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2

Major Vynder — Alpha-class Star Wing 39
Fire-Control System 2
Proton Torpedoes 12
Advanced SLAM 3
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout 0
Ship Total: 56
Half Points: 28 Threshold: 4

46 minutes ago, C3gorach said:

Has anyone considered Major Vynder as an alternative Torp carrier in order to fit the list now that Redline has gone up in points? Of course he is not as good, but with Adv. Slam, Os-1 loadout and 3 Defence dice he won't be that bad I think...

*cough*

23 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Whisper (Juke, Fifth Brother) (68) with an FCS Delta and [...] Vynder (season to taste, I kinda think this is cool: Proton Torpedo/FCS/Advanced SLAM/OS-1) (56) for [...] 196 points

I haven't flown too much Vynder, but I've kinda enjoyed it when I have. I love the style of getting to a flank, chasing, and throwing the reloaded Proton Torpedoes at someone. It's not quite a PTL/AdvS Rho from 1e, but it seems close enough, given the overall reduction in dice mods in 2e.