8 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I know after TLJ ...

Uh oh. You mentioned it.

I liked the direction this thread was going in, and I genuinely liked your post. But this thread will be locked before it hits page 3.

(I agree with everything you said in that post. All of it)

3 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

Besides, there's nothing in Legion as it is now to keep it from having an extended "Epic" format that allows for the use of larger units like the AT-AT and Juggernaught.

Well, other than the fact that a giant lumbering game piece at that scale is of minimal tactical interest. Like, in the WotC (28mm) miniatures game, you just sort of plopped an AT-AT down and it shuffled slowly forward. Gigantic "Battle of Hoth" Gencon events looked like the most dull and boring tactical exercise in dice-rolling, as these AT-ATs basically lumbered forward on a rail toward the Rebel Base.

It also doesn't help that at Legion's scale, an AT-AT ought to be entirely impervious to lightly-armed foot soldiers and emplacements, with only lightsaber-wielding Luke and a tow-cable T-47 posing any threat, and they're absolute silver bullets. So thematically, there's game-balance issues preventing an AT-AT from being anything but a mantle-piece. Then again, we're getting an SSD in Armada... so...

14 hours ago, NebulonB said:

is that certain? confirmed SSD wont have a German version? Would be a first.

14 hours ago, LordCola said:

Can you list a source for that claim?

A guy called "Asmodee" confirmed it in a facebook post. I dont know who is this guy, but german Armada community interpretates him as officially speaking.

The reason he gave was that it would not be worth it to produce a german version. So I assume that there wont be spanish or french versions either - a hard proof that the interest in Armada has lowered.

I am not convinced, yet, and I dont need the German version personally, but if true, I dont like it. I wonder, do they foresee such small quantities to be sold.

I think Episode IX will be a key issue for all franchize especially for Armada.

if there is a big and juicy space battle ( like Battle of Endor or Scarif), I think it will boost the interest at the game ( of course if FFG/Asmode manages to catch the wave)

8 hours ago, Jimbo2142 said:

A guy called "Asmodee" confirmed it in a facebook post. I dont know who is this guy, but german Armada community interpretates him as officially speaking.

The reason he gave was that it would not be worth it to produce a german version. So I assume that there wont be spanish or french versions either - a hard proof that the interest in Armada has lowered.

Not necessary, could just be that they dont think it will sell as good as for example squadron pack or cr90.

On 2/2/2019 at 12:13 PM, Admiral Calkins said:

I actually thought the status report of the other games was interesting, but I have to agree with @SkyCake on this one. It sounds like the 14 people that quit Armada were more interested in buying stuff than actually playing the game. Because let's be honest, 2018 was an amazing year for playing Armada, as the meta was seriously shaken up by both a game-changing wave and FAQ. If people are quitting Armada during this time, they were not that into it to begin with.

Or maybe, just maybe, FFG made it difficult to actually play. CSI is out of stock of 20+ expansions. MM is out of stock of 8. FFG themselves is out of stock of 3 squadron expansions. There have been serious gaps of time where various expansions have been completely sold out except for scalpers on ebay charging 2x or 3x the MSRP. If any of those 14 people were trying to build a collection...well, 2018 wasn't a good year for that.

Maybe, just maybe, those 14 players like games that are alive and vibrant, not seemingly on life support for a year or more. Anyone that's been in the gaming market for more than a few years has seen the birth, life, and death cycle of lots of games. They start to see the writing on the wall. When the expansions start wavering, when support from the company vanishes, when production/stock issues start making it hard to find stuff to buy...well, those are the tell-tale signs of a dying game. And when those signs start showing up, the rumors start flying. I'm not saying Armada is dead or dying, I don't think it is (or at least I hope it isn't), but it sure has all the symptoms of a dying game.

Maybe, just maybe, you are right, and a few of the players like it when things are changing. Some people play these games for the challenge of adapting to an ever changing meta that comes from releases of new expansions that introduce new ships, new upgrades, new commanders, new challenges. When the release schedule slows down as much as Armada has, the meta tends to stagnate significantly, especially local metas.

Maybe, just maybe, it was a combination of all these things and more. 1 person runs into a financial situation and has to sell of their collection. 1 person changes jobs and schedules and can't make local games any more. 1 person starts a relationship, or has a kid, and no longer has the free time for local games. 1 person moves away. 1 person quits because they like changing metas and its not changing anymore. 1 person quits because they just like buying new stuff and there isn't any. 1 person quits because they are frustrated they can't find expansions. 1 person quits because a friend of theirs that played also quit. 1 person quits because they think the game is dying and they would prefer to be in a living game that is still expanding. As the player count drops due to various reasons, the remaining players see less reason to get involved as the game appears to be dead. Without expansions making the news. Without articles and news from FFG, no new players are joining in. Without a strong enough community to survive momentary dips in player population, there is nothing to come back to.

On 2/2/2019 at 7:13 PM, Admiral Calkins said:

I actually thought the status report of the other games was interesting, but I have to agree with @SkyCake on this one. It sounds like the 14 people that quit Armada were more interested in buying stuff than actually playing the game. Because let's be honest, 2018 was an amazing year for playing Armada, as the meta was seriously shaken up by both a game-changing wave and FAQ. If people are quitting Armada during this time, they were not that into it to begin with.

I vehemently disagree with this.

2018 was the year that armada went completely stale for me.

For a brief time Thrawn 2-ship offered a new way of playing mostly the same Imp squads, but that's the extent of it.

11 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

For a brief time Thrawn 2-ship offered a new way of playing mostly the same Imp squads, but that's the extent of it.

The fact that this is the "most fun" thing that popped up is depressing as well. Thrawn 2-ship is among my least favorite fleet types in the game. It abuses the activation mechanics with the poorly crafter Pryce and abuses the power of ace squadrons by fitting in all the best ones. I've never fielded it, but it's super boring to play against.

18 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

I vehemently disagree with this.

2018 was the year that armada went completely stale for me.

For a brief time Thrawn 2-ship offered a new way of playing mostly the same Imp squads, but that's the extent of it.

5 minutes ago, IronNerd said:

The fact that this is the "most fun" thing that popped up is depressing as well.

Raddus didn’t offer a new and fun way of playing?

13 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

Raddus didn’t offer a new and fun way of playing?

That will be a resounding "meh" from me.

Raddus's biggest boon is that you can avoid big losses by positioning (what is probably) the most important part of your fleet very strategically (in other words, where it will do the most damage, but more importantly, probably won't die). That does not make the game more "fun" to me, it's actually worse. It skips a lot of the important setup bits that should be very important and engaging. I don't hate Raddus or anything, but I don't think he is fun to square off against either.

7 minutes ago, IronNerd said:

That will be a resounding "meh" from me.

Raddus's biggest boon is that you can avoid big losses by positioning (what is probably) the most important part of your fleet very strategically (in other words, where it will do the most damage, but more importantly, probably won't die). That does not make the game more "fun" to me, it's actually worse. It skips a lot of the important setup bits that should be very important and engaging. I don't hate Raddus or anything, but I don't think he is fun to square off against either.

I’m truly sorry that Wave 7 and the FAQ didn’t make the game new or more fun for you. But it begs the question, if those didn’t and the prospect of the SSD doesn’t, what will?

6 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

I’m truly sorry that Wave 7 and the FAQ didn’t make the game new or more fun for you. But it begs the question, if those didn’t and the prospect of the SSD doesn’t, what will?

The easiest answer for me is Armada 2.0, but I'm not getting into that here.

That said, you are vastly oversimplifying. I actually love the introduction of the MC75, that is by far my favorite large ship for the Rebels. Unfortunately, I think Wave 7 caused more issues than it solved (for me). Raddus encourages a "play half a game" style, where you aim to deny your enemy options based on perfect information after the game has started. I have only seen Thrawn used to run squadrons, which is effectively just the best way to avoid things like Slicer Tools and Raid tokens (which, let's face it, are also pretty garbage). Squadrons just so happen to be my least favorite thing about Armada, so adding more tools to combat squadron counter-play doesn't make the game better for me. Finally, they did try to "fix" activation advantage (and by extension, first/last), but would most call that a success? Now large ship activations cost as much as small ones (as long as you can spare an officer somewhere), and MSUs have largely disappeared (yes, yes, I know a Cracken CR90/MC30 MSU placed well in Regionals...).

I've made my feelings on the SSD clear in other threads, so I won't spend much time on it. Short version is: Rebels get nothing. Imperials get good officers that cost $200 whether you want the SSD or not. I'm scared of what the SSD *might* do for the meta.

I've said this a lot over the last few months on this forum. I LOVE Armada. It's the best miniatures combat game I've played in my 15ish years of gaming. That said, it has serious issues. I get tired of the apologists touting that it's the most balanced gift to gamers that we've ever seen and we should just be happy. You can love things and still want them to improve, and that's where I am with Armada.

I started Armada Dec 2017, and have played at least 24-30 games in 2018. It was a good year for me in miniatures wargaming. It was my last year at Fort Bragg, and I will be moving soon. I wanted a miniatures game to play when I move because I know they help when making friends.

I think one of the main issues with Armada is the same issue you see with people who only play one list in Warhammer. They are bored. People have played SO MUCH Armada, that they have tried almost everything. They look at certain upgrades, ships, squadrons, ecy, decide they arnt worth the points, and never use them. The Gauntlet Fighters are a great example. I havent seen them used. At all. Mostly because "20pts, no worth it."

Like, people are complaining about lack of content, but also about how things cost too much so they would never use them. They want more ships, but not from the sequels or clone wars... ugh. This is why we are getting the SSD as the only release for the year.

6 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

Like, people are complaining about lack of content, but also about how things cost too much so they would never use them.

Yeah I agree, but at the same time, many players build lists not just for casual play, but to be competitive. I kinda outlined this idea with the NK-7 thread I posted a while ago. There are a lot of good reasons why they aren't taken, but it doesn't make them less fun to use in my opinion. (and using less competitive cards can certainly add some variety to list building.)

8 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

They want more ships, but not from the sequels or clone wars... ugh.

I don't think this is a consensus. I've seen a fair amount of arguing in threads about both. lol

9 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

This is why we are getting the SSD as the only release for the year. 

I don't think this is the conclusion we can draw from the statements above. They could be related, but realistically we have no idea why this is happening.

1 hour ago, Admiral Calkins said:

Raddus didn’t offer a new and fun way of playing?

No.

He broke/abused (your mileage may vary) another key aspect of the game, and is in no way fun to play against.

1 hour ago, IronNerd said:

The fact that this is the "most fun" thing that popped up is depressing as well. Thrawn 2-ship is among my least favorite fleet types in the game. It abuses the activation mechanics with the poorly crafter Pryce and abuses the power of ace squadrons by fitting in all the best ones. I've never fielded it, but it's super boring to play against.

That's what was 'fun' about it. With Pryce and activation quality you had another way of leveraging activations.

But the core issue remains, and that is activation control is way too big a part of successfully playing competitive armada.

23 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

Like, people are complaining about lack of content, but also about how things cost too much so they would never use them. They want more ships, but not from the sequels or clone wars... ugh. This is why we are getting the SSD as the only release for the year.

I think the answer then is more ship variants. I think the Kuat and Cymoon were largely successful in showing that folks would use variants that were vastly different along with the originals.

1 hour ago, IronNerd said:

I get tired of the apologists touting that it's the most balanced gift to gamers that we've ever seen and we should just be happy.

OOF.

55 minutes ago, draco193 said:

I think the answer then is more ship variants. I think the Kuat and Cymoon were largely successful in showing that folks would use variants that were vastly different along with the originals.

Campaign boxes. Campaign boxes can release new ship and squadron variations that can bring more variety to the table. This is a cheap, easy way for FFG to add a lot of new material to the game. No need for repainted minis. No need for new sculpts.

Give us one good wave a year (at least 1 ship for each faction), plus one campaign box per year, seperated out 6 months. Next campaign box could be 2 new designs of the Neb B and Vic along with the rogues squadron pack. Next campaign after that could be a wave 5 redo with the new versions of everything there.

2 hours ago, Green Knight said:

I vehemently disagree with this.

2018 was the year that armada went completely stale for me.

For a brief time Thrawn 2-ship offered a new way of playing mostly the same Imp squads, but that's the extent of it.

Agreed, since Armada doesn't, theoretically, have power creep in the releases over time, the most important part of any release should be "What in this release makes players WANT to change their fleets?" So far, the most effective way that FFG has found to change the meta has been through FAQs. Which tended to have the intended effect, its basically the equivalent of pounding the game over the head with a sledgehammer. For bonus points, it also doesn't sell more models. In fact, due to the FAQs most players are going to have way way more flotillas than they can ever run.

At this point, I don't care if the solution is 2.0, putting power creep into releases, promoted alternative formats, or something else entirely. Between all of the variables, it's very likely that the only way to spread Armada back into the regions that have lost it will be for someone to bite the bullet and take a hit. Meaning either the playerbase, FLGS, and/or FFG. That is one of the reasons the 2.0 train has so much support, effectively making a new game is an investment, trying to expand an existing game is throwing good money after the bad. The (admittedly anecdotal) evidence we have for xwing 2.0 is not encouraging for that being attempted again though, most players putting the blame on expensive conversion and poor app support. Pointing towards FFG not wanting to take as much of a loss on xwing 2.0.

On 2/2/2019 at 5:00 PM, NebulonB said:

is that certain? confirmed SSD wont have a German version? Would be a first.

I just read in the Facebook blog of "Yoda's data" (German retailer) there won't be a German version of the SSD, because of the estimated low number of sold SSDs. Don't know if it's true, but sounds reasonable given the high price of 189 €, that's roughly the price of 5 ISDs in Germany...

1 minute ago, Nebukadnezzar said:

I just read in the Facebook blog of "Yoda's data" (German retailer) there won't be a German version of the SSD, because of the estimated low number of sold SSDs. Don't know if it's true, but sounds reasonable given the high price of 189 €, that's roughly the price of 5 ISDs in Germany...

Poor scrubs need to git gud at buying things...

17 hours ago, Green Knight said:

No.

He broke/abused (your mileage may vary) another key aspect of the game, and is in no way fun to play against.

News to me. I love playing him and against him. It’s exciting and tense.

1 hour ago, Nebukadnezzar said:

I just read in the Facebook blog of "Yoda's data" (German retailer) there won't be a German version of the SSD, because of the estimated low number of sold SSDs. Don't know if it's true, but sounds reasonable given the high price of 189 €, that's roughly the price of 5 ISDs in Germany...

thx. I wasnot under the impeession that it wont sell, even xwingers seem keen to have onefor display. But surely peeps wont need multiples, and Rebels only players are not enticed.