Just now, thespaceinvader said:

The problem is the lack of offensive focus and rerolls, and the generics only having one force so choosing evade over everything else.

Sure, and the generics probably won't evade much. They're probably going to be like generic Inquisitors in the TAP.

The named guys, though, will likely be evading a lot, with the force points to back it up.

2 minutes ago, Jedu said:

I completly agree with that. If Anakin has 3force tokens, if he knows that he's in bad spot and has brilliant evasion- he has one guaranteed evade and can turn 2 eyeballs into evades. Is it really weak? I don't think so.

If he has three force, he doesn’t need brilliant evasion. BE looks like it has more value than Heroic, but right now I’m thinking of it more for resource management than anything else.

3 minutes ago, Jedu said:

I completly agree with that. If Anakin has 3force tokens, if he knows that he's in bad spot and has brilliant evasion- he has one guaranteed evade and can turn 2 eyeballs into evades. Is it really weak? I don't think so.

And if in the same round that you 'force' your evade -instead of focusing- you roll 2 eyeballs in your attack? Is it now weak or not?

18 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

And if in the same round that you 'force' your evade -instead of focusing- you roll 2 eyeballs in your attack? Is it now weak or not?

Haha, you're trying to get me no way buddy;)

It depends on the situation. If I roll 2 eyeballs in attack-thats fine,dice are dice. I'll change one using force if I attack 1 or 0 defense die ship.

BUT,as I've stated and maybe you didn't notice - if I didn't manage to escape from enemy fire arcs being PS 6Anakin- if I miss my 2dice attack, I don't bother as long as I can change 2 eyeballs and one blank into evades. The way I see it,he should be an arc dodger. And what is more important for an arc dodger with 2 red dice? I think that it's better not to be hit than to deal 1 damage and take 1 or more.

The thing I'm trying to say- the purple evade may be strong if the full of Force Jedi gets caught in enemy's arcs. We will see how it is not earlier, than when we get acquainted with the points cost.

Just now, Jedu said:

The thing I'm trying to say- the purple evade may be strong if the full of Force Jedi gets caught in enemy's arcs. We will see how it is not earlier, than we get acquainted with the points cost.

Color me unconvinced.

I will still prefer having available for the round 1 Focus + 3 calculate, to 1 evade + 2 calculate.

And once your force pool is depleted, you have to choose between Focus+calculate or a evade.

38 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

And if in the same round that you 'force' your evade -instead of focusing- you roll 2 eyeballs in your attack? Is it now weak or not?

It's still not weak, because you're trying to use results from a single roll to justify the process. It's like saying a Focus action was a bad idea because you rolled all blanks.

Firstly, you are more likely to roll a blank than a focus on any given die, with three faces vs two.

Secondly, the combination of Evade plus Force/Focus/Calculate is much stronger on defense, because you can modify multiple types of facings. It's the defensive equivalent to combining a focus and reroll on an attack in order to maximize your results.

This is an interesting thread so far. We have people convinced that the purple evade could make a good panic button for high force pilots. Others are placing more value on the force token than the evade, since one can be offensive and defensive, while the other is pure defense. Based on the arguments, I'm leaning more towards the panic button perspective myself. There definitely is a trade off in taking the evade, so looking at it as a more situational option seems pretty solid. In theory anyway. In most situations I feel it wont really be worth it, but if you don't have brilliant evasion, and you absolutely must get one evade result to not die, maybe a purple evade is what you need?

When introducing a faction that you know many people will buy anyway, start them out weak and build them up a little with every new release. This keeps already invested buyers on the hook. Purple evades are next to useless with our current understanding. Bullseye abilities on ships that can't swarm puts all the burden of execution on you. Fine for one ship in a small squad, but not all. Need some boring, reliable salad in there for good health. (Soontir will forever be the only affordable true arc dodging ace)

When introducing something for a faction that isn't as popular or everyone's first buy, start them strong and nerf them down after a few waves, then sell something that barely makes them competitive again. This gets buyers to invest, and keeps them on the hook for both this faction and the one that actually interests them. Han gunner totally seemed balanced to us at this cost, we swear.

This has the additional benefit of creating the illusion that you are trying to reach balance, instead of manipulating it for solid marketing reasons. Oh, we are just kinda bad at design, we have no idea what will be good and what won't. 😁

Cue the X-Files theme song for my conspiracy theory please

2 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

This gets buyers to invest, and keeps them on the hook for both this faction  and the one that actually interests them. Han gunner totally seemed balanced to us at this cost, we swear. 

I think you quite underestimate the Scum loyalties of people. The Scum Falcon was never going to struggle due to faction, of anything it would be because of people already having two.

I think a lot of the people defending the purple evade with nothing extra forget the Delta has a built option to reposition after completing a maneuver that also cost a Force. What's going to be more useful in most situations, a reposition plus a focus or a single evade? Even when you're going full defense how many realistic situations are you imagining the evade is better?

And for those pilots loaded with Force, which is better a double reposition with 1+ Force tokens left, or a single evade and reposition?

Yes, I acknowledge there is some really niche cases where an evade is worth a Force token and an action, but they are going to be rare.

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Not giving them the talent slot does that. They're basically guaranteed to have Force.

This is actually one of the reasons I don't like running force users.

Not because I believe they should have both or anything, but I simply like Talents more.

4 hours ago, millertime059 said:

I think you quite underestimate the Scum loyalties of people. The Scum Falcon was never going to struggle due to faction, of anything it would be because of people already having two.

I know that Scum was my first faction into xwing back before I even knew what was good or not. And I really like the Scum ships still.

12 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Sure, and the generics probably won't evade much. They're probably going to be like generic Inquisitors in the TAP.

Generic Inquisitors evade (or should evade ) almost every turn. They fact that they can have 3 green + force + evade is what takes them from playable to pretty good; little 38 point bastards that are almost as tough to hurt as Defenders. Jedi Knights just can't do this, so I'd assume they'll have to adopt a slightly different playstyle.

I think this thread contains two different interpretations of what the purple evade action does.

One group thinks that you use a force token AND your regular action to take the purple evade. These people think the purple evade is terrible, because you are trading a focus and a force token of potential eyeball modification for a single evade. If that is correct, these people are right.

The other group thinks that you can spend a force token to take the purple evade action IN ADDITION TO retaining your normal action for something else. These people think the purple evade is nice, since it lets you trade a force token usable on offense or defense for a superior evade token that is only usable on defense. If that is correct, these people are right.

At this point we don't know which interpretation is the correct one, and until an English article is released I won't be able to judge for myself.

2 minutes ago, Covered in Weasels said:

I think this thread contains two different interpretations of what the purple evade action does.

One group thinks that you use a force token AND your regular action to take the purple evade. These people think the purple evade is terrible, because you are trading a focus and a force token of potential eyeball modification for a single evade. If that is correct, these people are right.

The other group thinks that you can spend a force token to take the purple evade action IN ADDITION TO retaining your normal action for something else. These people think the purple evade is nice, since it lets you trade a force token usable on offense or defense for a superior evade token that is only usable on defense. If that is correct, these people are right.

At this point we don't know which interpretation is the correct one, and until an English article is released I won't be able to judge for myself.

It's unlikely we'll know for absolutely sure until we have the actual rules update.

6 minutes ago, Covered in Weasels said:

I think this thread contains two different interpretations of what the purple evade action does.

One group thinks that you use a force token AND your regular action to take the purple evade. These people think the purple evade is terrible, because you are trading a focus and a force token of potential eyeball modification for a single evade. If that is correct, these people are right.

The other group thinks that you can spend a force token to take the purple evade action IN ADDITION TO retaining your normal action for something else. These people think the purple evade is nice, since it lets you trade a force token usable on offense or defense for a superior evade token that is only usable on defense. If that is correct, these people are right.

At this point we don't know which interpretation is the correct one, and until an English article is released I won't be able to judge for myself.

I believe the first interpretation is correct, but I still think it will be really good.

1 hour ago, Covered in Weasels said:

I think this thread contains two different interpretations of what the purple evade action does.

One group thinks that you use a force token AND your regular action to take the purple evade. These people think the purple evade is terrible, because you are trading a focus and a force token of potential eyeball modification for a single evade. If that is correct, these people are right.

The other group thinks that you can spend a force token to take the purple evade action IN ADDITION TO retaining your normal action for something else. These people think the purple evade is nice, since it lets you trade a force token usable on offense or defense for a superior evade token that is only usable on defense. If that is correct, these people are right.

At this point we don't know which interpretation is the correct one, and until an English article is released I won't be able to judge for myself.

The language in the article isn't ambiguous. Unless it's just plain wrong , the first interpretation is correct.

1 hour ago, Okapi said:

The language in the article isn't ambiguous. Unless it's just plain wrong , the first interpretation is correct.

Some of us can’t read the article 😜

But the translation I read only stated “spend a force to evade,” not that it was your normal action step.

The same person who was translating the article said that he received outside confirmation that it was the normal action, and his source apparently has a good track record. So I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I’m also willing to hope he’s somehow wrong 😜

34 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Some of us can’t read the article 😜

But the translation I read only stated “spend a force to evade,” not that it was your normal action step.

The same person who was translating the article said that he received outside confirmation that it was the normal action, and his source apparently has a good track record. So I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I’m also willing to hope he’s somehow wrong 😜

Anything is possible, I guess, but assuming it's a free action is just hopefully adding something that isn't in even hinted at in the text.

Besides, we know that there are both crew and force talent upgrade cards in the wave that add a purple coordinate action. If this is a free action, it'd have to have an astronomical cost, especially since you could add it do a ship that already has these free purple actions to begin with. It'd let Anakin lock, evade, coordinate AND reposition in a single turn, all at I6. To me, this just seems too extreme to be the base.

40 minutes ago, Okapi said:

Anything is possible, I guess, but assuming it's a free action is just hopefully adding something that isn't in even hinted at in the text.

Besides, we know that there are both crew and force talent upgrade cards in the wave that add a purple coordinate action. If this is a free action, it'd have to have an astronomical cost, especially since you could add it do a ship that already has these free purple actions to begin with. It'd let Anakin lock, evade, coordinate AND reposition in a single turn, all at I6. To me, this just seems too extreme to be the base.

Unless you can only take one Force Action a turn. In that case you could purple evade OR purple coordinate. Your scenario gets dialed back some.

The whole thing certainly depends on a purple action being a "regular action" that costs a force or a "free action" that costs a force.

Does it suck compared to a white evade? Yes. But I'm glad it sucks.

I mean, I guess TAP v1s can have Force/Evade pretty easily, but excessive easy token stacking is why we needed 2e in the first place.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Does it suck compared to a white evade? Yes. But I'm glad it sucks.

I mean, I guess TAP v1s can have Force/Evade pretty easily, but excessive easy token stacking is why we needed 2e in the first place.

Just now, player3010587 said:

As the song goes, one of these things is not like the other .

Soontir is one pilot on a chassis which normally only gets a single token, his ability is fairly conditional so you have to work for it, and he can easily die in a single shot. Dude's fine. Does Initiative 6 que Initiative 6 need to be more expensive? Maybe, but Soontir isn't really like the other ships.

But the others? Sure, a bit excessive. That's also why Defenders cost a small forture, why they just nerfed Juke, deleted the crew slot on Phantoms, and hiked the price of Whisper.

Defenders are effective when they're working, but they've got weaknesses. Predictable dial (good but predictable), and their high price means that the rest of the list has to skimp and save on points. Phantoms get a lot while they can keep their Evade tokens, but once they spend those Evade tokens, the whole chain breaks down. In some ways, it's more like a 1e X-Wing with Flight Assist Astromech, or a better version of Adaptive Ailerons.

//

Jedi with White Evades... There's something about it which makes me a bit nervous about it, but that's maybe an overreaction. Still, I think the fact that FFG felt that they needed to not include a White Evade shows something about how they felt about the balance.

I don't bite on the conspiracy theories that FFG is making the first wave of Jedi bad, so we have to buy into a later wave to get better ships, since they want to actually sell us this wave. Game companies make money, ultimately, by making a product which is fun to play. If the game isn't fun, it doesn't matter how many improvements get made to future ships: folks stop playing. Imbalance and excessively strong ships are an enemy of fun for most players. So while there's an incentive for newness and powercreep, there's also an incentive for balance and plain fun.

55 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

As the song goes, one of these things is not like the other .

Soontir is one pilot on a chassis which normally only gets a single token, his ability is fairly conditional so you have to work for it, and he can easily die in a single shot. Dude's fine. Does Initiative 6 que Initiative 6 need to be more expensive? Maybe, but Soontir isn't really like the other ships.

But the others? Sure, a bit excessive. That's also why Defenders cost a small forture, why they just nerfed Juke, deleted the crew slot on Phantoms, and hiked the price of Whisper.

Defenders are effective when they're working, but they've got weaknesses. Predictable dial (good but predictable), and their high price means that the rest of the list has to skimp and save on points. Phantoms get a lot while they can keep their Evade tokens, but once they spend those Evade tokens, the whole chain breaks down. In some ways, it's more like a 1e X-Wing with Flight Assist Astromech, or a better version of Adaptive Ailerons.

//

Jedi with White Evades... There's something about it which makes me a bit nervous about it, but that's maybe an overreaction. Still, I think the fact that FFG felt that they needed to not include a White Evade shows something about how they felt about the balance.

I don't bite on the conspiracy theories that FFG is making the first wave of Jedi bad, so we have to buy into a later wave to get better ships, since they want to actually sell us this wave. Game companies make money, ultimately, by making a product which is fun to play. If the game isn't fun, it doesn't matter how many improvements get made to future ships: folks stop playing. Imbalance and excessively strong ships are an enemy of fun for most players. So while there's an incentive for newness and powercreep, there's also an incentive for balance and plain fun.

I don't disagree with what you said (except you can still run Juke Rexlar, Juke Whisper, and Soontir so long as you demote his Lone Wolf to Predator!), but the point is not that excessive easy token stacking is going to ruled out of the game, but that it is relegated to specialized chassis' that offer your aforedescribed balance in their application. The fun is Juke is still spectacular for double duty evades on your I5's when you are given starting player (which is what you want with Defenders and killboxes, especially when Rexlar's ability will apply conditions and Whisper will get that bonus evade before they start shooting!).

I should probably run the trio again in at least a kit tourney post points-change. I'd imagine that with a bunch of their natural predators or uphill battles nerfed to oblivion or to stratospheric costs they would be even more effective, but Lone Wolf has extended my Soontir's life a little longer to bolster Rexlar's 1v1 or his and Whisper's 2v1 endgame so many times at Crossroads.