2 hours ago, Khazadune said:

First, it's not going to be 10,000 books in this run, probably 5,000 if we are being more realistic, and the presence of books without issue in Europe means that this would have isolated to a small subset of the larger print run.

Now a larger problem could exist where they had already arrived state side and the cost to return the books is prohibitive and time consuming, which is more believable, but as we don't have any clear communication from FFG that and the idea of the bent cover are just guesses.

Also, yeah, I should have looked at the binding on one of my books before suggesting they were flex adhesive (due me for assuming) but rope bound books can still be mostly salvaged, and saving 80% of the print process is still worth it.

No it is not worth it because it requires a lot of manual labor which seem to keep ignoring. And none of the Rise of the seperatists were in europe as far as i know. Anyone who has them went to celebration.

4 hours ago, Daeglan said:

No it is not worth it because it requires a lot of manual labor which seem to keep ignoring. And none of the Rise of the seperatists were in europe as far as i know. Anyone who has them went to celebration.

4 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

Which is heresay.

8 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Which is heresay.

As is the idea of the bent cover...

2 hours ago, Khazadune said:

As is the idea of the bent cover...

The difference is i know warped cover was the reason for the delay of Ghosts of Dathomir.

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

The difference is i know warped cover was the reason for the delay of Ghosts of Dathomir.

And I know the usual European delay did not happen meaning they had books in stock at release.

Sure. But since we dont know the issue with RoS we dont know what will happen with it. We have rumors of warehouse books. It might be true. It might not. I cant evaluate because i dont know how reliable any link in the chain of sources.

I trust my source on the book cover warping because i know they are placed high enough at FFG to know what happened. I didnt get to ask about RoS this year. So i cant speak to it other than to eay when someone else says the covers warped i can say i believe that. It has happened before.

20 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I trust my source on the book cover warping because i know they are placed high enough at FFG to know what happened. I didnt get to ask about RoS this year. So i cant speak to it other than to eay when someone else says the covers warped i can say i believe that. It has happened before.

A warped cover though wouldn't delay a book this long. It's been what 9 months?

41 minutes ago, bblaney001 said:

A warped cover though wouldn't delay a book this long. It's been what 9 months?

7 months. It went on the boat in late Sept.

14 hours ago, bblaney001 said:

A warped cover though wouldn't delay a book this long. It's been what 9 months?

14 hours ago, Daeglan said:

7 months. It went on the boat in late Sept.

Yep. And yes it could take that long given that the new print run has to fit within whatever slot it can get within the printer’s existing que.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yep. And yes it could take that long given that the new print run has to fit within whatever slot it can get within the printer’s existing que.

Im pretty sure it already has been printed. Probably a while ago.

9 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Im pretty sure it already has been printed. Probably a while ago.

Yeah, one would think that if it had a printing defect of any sort that the printer would’ve expedited a new run. Would be a pretty crappy printer if they didn’t.

30 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Im pretty sure it already has been printed. Probably a while ago.

Oh sure, but the question is how long it took before getting back through the que.

18 minutes ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Yeah, one would think that if it had a printing defect of any sort that the printer would’ve expedited a new run. Would be a pretty crappy printer if they didn’t.

Not necessarily. Think about it. If they did an “expedited” printing, that would mean that other products already scheduled for print by that company would need to be pushed back, delaying them. It just compounds the problem. As a result, reprinting has to fit within the existing que. They can’t push back production or delivery of other clients’ orders.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

Oh sure, but the question is how long it took before getting back through the que.

Not necessarily. Think about it. If they did an “expedited” printing, that would mean that other products already scheduled for print by that company would need to be pushed back, delaying them. It just compounds the problem. As a result, reprinting has to fit within the existing que. They can’t push back production or delivery of other clients’ orders.

Like I said, a pretty crappy printer.

Just now, AnomalousAuthor said:

Like I said, a pretty crappy printer.

I disagree. A “crappy” printer would rearrange its entire schedule over a single client, pushing back numerous orders and thus screwing over multiple other clients in the process. Such a printer wouldn’t stay in business long. Yes, being expedient with reprinting a problemed print run, but not at the expense of other clients already scheduled for that time with deadlines for delivery needing to be met by the printer.

30 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I disagree. A “crappy” printer would rearrange its entire schedule over a single client, pushing back numerous orders and thus screwing over multiple other clients in the process. Such a printer wouldn’t stay in business long. Yes, being expedient with reprinting a problemed print run, but not at the expense of other clients already scheduled for that time with deadlines for delivery needing to be met by the printer.

I disagree. If a business cannot guarantee the quality of their product then they aren’t worth doing business with. If they printed a defective product then it is incumbent on them to rectify the situation in a timely manner. If they can’t do that themselves then they should find another that can. It’s basic customer service.

It’s all conjecture at this point as we have no idea what occurred. It’s entirely possible that the printer wasn’t at fault. Perhaps the shipping company was to blame. Maybe some overzealous Chinese bureaucrat decided to pulp the run, who knows. Lots of things could’ve happened.

20 hours ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

If a business cannot guarantee the quality of their product then they aren’t worth doing business with.

If they are also the cheapest, you might not have a choice. RPGs aren't exactly big money-makers, licensed ones even more so. FFG is probably working with who they could find at the price they could afford.

Personally I prefer the boat-fire theory. It would explain why some copies were available for Chicago but why shipments haven't gone out to the general public: They had to dump containers worth of fire-damaged books and only had a comparatively small number that survived they could sell. Also considering how the line has suffered under shipping issues and how long products have been "on the boat" the vision of the S.S. FFG cruising across the pacific in flames seems just too fitting.

47 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

If they are also the cheapest, you might not have a choice. RPGs aren't exactly big money-makers, licensed ones even more so. FFG is probably working with who they could find at the price they could afford.

Personally I prefer the boat-fire theory. It would explain why some copies were available for Chicago but why shipments haven't gone out to the general public: They had to dump containers worth of fire-damaged books and only had a comparatively small number that survived they could sell. Also considering how the line has suffered under shipping issues and how long products have been "on the boat" the vision of the S.S. FFG cruising across the pacific in flames seems just too fitting.

This whole supply chain is more reminiscent of a dumpster fire.

58 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

This whole supply chain is more reminiscent of a dumpster fire.

A dumpster of epic proportions..................

2 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

If they are also the cheapest, you might not have a choice. RPGs aren't exactly big money-makers, licensed ones even more so. FFG is probably working with who they could find at the price they could afford.

Well, there is the old gaming industry joke of "how do you make a small fortune? Take a large fortune and start a gaming company."

As with any business, it's a matter of striking a balance between cost of services and quality of services. Food industry is a prime example of this in action; if one goes to a Five Star restaurant, one is generally assured of having an excellent meal, but you're going to pay through the nose for it. Conversely, one could easily afford to eat at McDonalds or Taco Bell without breaking the bank, but you're not getting top quality food either, and you body will probably not thank you for trying to subsist solely upon fast food offerings.

Apart from Ghosts of Dathomir's issue with the covers, the printer that FFG is using seems to be doing a fairly good job. If anything, the real problem seems to be with getting the books shipped overseas from the printer to the FFG's warehouses.

Now if it is true that the issue with RotS is one with the shipping company (books damaged/destroyed in transit), then the printer isn't under obligation to drop everything to do a new print run. FFG did have a similar problem with a couple of their shipments being literally stuck on the boat when the shipping company they'd been using went bankrupt, resulting in entire shipments being locked down (this resulted in Cyphers & Masks being delayed as FFG had to order a brand new print run as the original one had effectively been lost for the foreseeable future), as well as a number of their products being delayed due to a dock worker's strike a couple years ago, again a factor that is beyond the control of the printing company.

12 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Apart from Ghosts of Dathomir's issue with the covers, the printer that FFG is using seems to be doing a fairly good job. If anything, the real problem seems to be with getting the books shipped overseas from the printer to the FFG's warehouses.

Love the quality of the printing but the CRBs have pretty bad binding. I’ve had to reapply binding glue to all three of mine. They were getting pretty loose there for a bit. I was actually a bit nervous to even use my AoR CRB due to this. Never had any issue with their smaller books though, and my CRBs are good for the foreseeable future after my fixit job.

Having said that, their binding was still better than that of my Mongoose Traveller CRB. That sucker had major issues within just a few weeks of light reading. Got great customer support and a free pdf from them though, so I can’t complain too much.

17 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Well, there is the old gaming industry joke of "how do you make a small fortune? Take a large fortune and start a gaming company."

As with any business, it's a matter of striking a balance between cost of services and quality of services. Food industry is a prime example of this in action; if one goes to a Five Star restaurant, one is generally assured of having an excellent meal, but you're going to pay through the nose for it. Conversely, one could easily afford to eat at McDonalds or Taco Bell without breaking the bank, but you're not getting top quality food either, and you body will probably not thank you for trying to subsist solely upon fast food offerings.

Apart from Ghosts of Dathomir's issue with the covers, the printer that FFG is using seems to be doing a fairly good job. If anything, the real problem seems to be with getting the books shipped overseas from the printer to the FFG's warehouses.

Now if it is true that the issue with RotS is one with the shipping company (books damaged/destroyed in transit), then the printer isn't under obligation to drop everything to do a new print run. FFG did have a similar problem with a couple of their shipments being literally stuck on the boat when the shipping company they'd been using went bankrupt, resulting in entire shipments being locked down (this resulted in Cyphers & Masks being delayed as FFG had to order a brand new print run as the original one had effectively been lost for the foreseeable future), as well as a number of their products being delayed due to a dock worker's strike a couple years ago, again a factor that is beyond the control of the printing company.

I've heard the same rumours regarding potential issues including a ship sinking at sea, a ship fire that destroyed books, a printer who went out of business, customs seizure of the materials, Chinese government crackdown on content in books and a bevy of other "issues." Some seem possible, some seem ludicrous, none have been officially put forth by FFG to explain any of the huge and terrible lapses in content.

All I can say is I have never experienced any of these problems from the sorcerers by the sea or the Paizo people, and I've been dealing with them much longer.

1 hour ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Love the quality of the printing but the CRBs have pretty bad binding. I’ve had to reapply binding glue to all three of mine. They were getting pretty loose there for a bit. I was actually a bit nervous to even use my AoR CRB due to this. Never had any issue with their smaller books though, and my CRBs are good for the foreseeable future after my fixit job.

Having said that, their binding was still better than that of my Mongoose Traveller CRB. That sucker had major issues within just a few weeks of light reading. Got great customer support and a free pdf from them though, so I can’t complain too much.

The Star Wars books actually have far better binding than the Dark Heresy 2e books FFG put out a few years ago. That piece of crap had pages falling out within a few days of opening it. Junk product, but FFG's customer service was top-notch and sent me a replacement right away.

Gotta say that since being updated to Rise Of The Separatists being "on the boat" 7 1/2 months ago (6th Sept 2018) FFG have announced Allies & Adversaries book in December being in Development, then at the printers, on the boat and now in the shops ! So they can develop, print & ship a book faster than they can reprint ? .... and we're still waiting on an update of what happened to the ROTS being on a boat or on fire lost in the china sea in a sinking boat impounded by the communists who warped the book cover out of spite .... or whatever.
Piss poor way to run a Games Supplier Company, especially when they go to the trouble of having an update site to show what's supposedly happening with release dates ... then do nothing about it for half a year. Guess this Star Wars RPG isn't worth their effort anymore. I know they're not great money spinners but still, You kinda expect some sort of update when you pre-order from them. Being treated like a mushroom has to be Bad for customer loyalty and therefore Bad for Business