Always with the negative waves, Moriarty

By Qualitypunk, in Star Wars: Armada

14 hours ago, Qualitypunk said:

I didn't call anyone a toddler, I suggested people were acting like toddlers which is different. I didn't say the customer base was entitled I suggested a few were entitled for thinking a company should sabotage long term to appease a vocal few. I never said FFG did nothing wrong, I said FFG isn't in full control of when they can release information. You've maliciously twisted what I said, turning a light hearted post about a missing product code into a platform for your illogical vendetta against FFG. As you missed the dated reference in my title.

Asking for news, updates, articles, community support doesn't seem that entitled. ****, I'm not even asking for that stuff for myself. I'm asking for that stuff for the health and well-being of the game. I'm asking for that stuff so that Armada continues to be a viable product for FFG. I'm asking for that stuff to help FFG.

My state had half a dozen stores supporting or stocking Armada at one point (not much, but we are a big state with a tiny population). It now has none. Why? Because people saw the lack of news, articles, updates, etc as a sign that the game was failing. People don't want to invest $$$ into something that is dying. So fewer people buy expansions at the stores. Fewer people show up for tournaments. Fewer people play in the stores. Less new players get enticed due to lack of players and activity. Stores stop stocking expansions. Game appears to be dead. The last time I walked into what was the most supportive venue I saw exactly 2 expansions and no base game for sale. I've flat out heard former players telling other people that the game is dead. I've seen seen similar stories where people in other states, or other countries have heard of people talking about stores telling players the game is canceled, etc.

You see, entitled means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. I'm happy with where the game is. I don't have anyone to play against anyways. If the SSD was the end of the road, I'd be sad that would mean the end of collecting this fun game, but I'd be content with what I have. FFG however seems like the entitled entity here. No news. No articles. No updates. No expansions for over a year at a time. No waves for even longer. Yet they believe that their fan base will remain just as strong as ever while providing next to nothing in return. They can't keep a decent stock of expansions in the hands of stores and retailers, yet they expect those stores and retailers to continue playing ball, and the players to just treat them specially by waiting patiently for months to get basic, dare I say necessary, expansions restocked. They have promised us 3 times in the last year that they are going to improve their customer interaction with better communication...yet there has been no change.

You see, I don't see the players as the entitled individuals here at all. They are the die-hard fans that have stuck with this game through thick and thin. There the ones begging for something, anything from FFG to show that they haven't pulled the plug. They come here daily in hopes that FFG will finally throw them a bone. FFG is the entitled party that believes the fans will continue to show up every day despite the neglect.

Edited by kmanweiss
15 hours ago, Benjan Meruna said:

Not releasing new stuff fast enough for my liking != not supporting the game.

This is a remarkably bad take. Name any other current game - even one - that stays relevant with less than one release per year and so little community engagement that there might as well be none.

Edited by JauntyChapeau
1 hour ago, Crabbok said:

We need to stop pretending like FFG hasn't given us any communication.

They've tweeted about Armada, announced the largest expansion in history, and taken out a FOUR PAGE add in December's GTM. I mean they could certainly do more... but they could also certainly be doing alot less.

So, there is a very real chance that my response to this is going to come across as pedantic - I assure you it's not intended to be, because I agree with you in principle, but only up until a point - respectfully. FFG has been doing a little - but I do not think that this constitutes any kind of real community engagement campaign or plan.

- Keyword search on twitter's advanced search for @FFGames containing the word "armada" shows 2 tweets regarding the SSD from august of 2018, a tweet showing off a piece of art for Phoenix Home. preceded by 2 from May of 2016. and then 1 from March of 2016 - https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=armada from%3Affgames&src=typd&lang=en

- I tend to work with the idea that a tournament prize or announcements are not on the same level as other topics in news posts (I'm happy to discuss this qualifier if you feel like it is an unfair decision on my part, but for now, let's proceed). Taking a look at the last two years of news on their site: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/tag/star-wars-armada/?page=3 - and filtering out Tournament announcements, prize spoilers, etc - we have this:

DD9r7Ax.jpg

I don't feel like a one-off article in a print medium that hardly anyone has a subscription to does not constitute a change in community engagement policy

Are they doing stuff? Yes

Is there any kind of change in their engagement? Early last year was cool - but it's been a year since then....

1 hour ago, ThatRobHuman said:

So, yes, the last few lines of my vignette can be interpreted this way if isolated from the longer story - nevertheless, let me clarify: I don't think the frustration and dismay stems from FFG not divulging information about new stuff before they're ready - but rather a continuation of lack of engagement in the armada community in a meaningful capacity for a long time, with what feel like hollow promises to improve. The promise to communicate better is not a new promise.

I'm not demanding they breach contract with LucasArts, I'm pretty dumb, but I'm not THAT dumb ;) .

For example:

- Suppose FFG take some time to write up a few strategy articles of their own rather than just be guests.

- Interview some more of the regional championship winners rather than just worlds.

- Pick the brain of the design team again.

- Interview the model design team.

- A Q&A session right now would be a bad idea, but eventually after community re-engagement has hit a certain threshold, it's a good one.

- Have the staff play a Corellian Conflict campaign (or a new campaign?) and give weekly videos recorded in the style of a HoloNet News Cast (if you play EVE Online at all, the Scope videos by CCP games is wonderful).

There are many many ways to re-engage with the community without having to post spoilers or even keep a consistent release schedule (though a consistent release schedule would be nice). Will many people still ask for those spoilers? Probably. But I'm willing to bet that as community re-engagement increases, the demands that you refer to by "Entitled" character will probably reduce quite a bit, too.

This is the kinda stuff I want. they do all of this for several of there other games, why not us? I'm not frustrated by the lack of releases, though I would really like 1 new full wave a year, but im furstrateded by the lack community engagement done by FFG during this slow time. They have done a little better recently with slightly more transparent post on Twitter, like the when they said they were still working on armada and the one they said don't look for an artical this week, but next we most likely. I hope its a sign of good things to come they just finished making several internal changes, so we will see in the upcoming months how that changes things.

Also, I'd like to point out, that a number of interviews and other interesting articles came about a month after the forums were alight with frustration at FFG in November of 2017 - I found my old thread here - this thread was one of many.

There was also this interaction with FFG I had on twitter.

ffg.thumb.jpg.8c51bb99f78d8e5166d1657267d41bb4.jpg Screenshot_2017-11-12-08-48-17.thumb.png.460aea0610d66a65c2b6a452430b7d16.png 5a09adf7ceb31_11-13-20179-36-26AM.thumb.jpg.21a1a75479c62219dae6c8c05350dbda.jpg

This really does make me feel like it's the same wild goose chase - hence my disillusioned state.

Edited by ThatRobHuman

Im pretty sure the forum in dividing into 2 camps. Those who grovel for FFG and a virtual lynch mob who want to string up the grovellers

Just now, LordTesla said:

Im pretty sure the forum in dividing into 2 camps. Those who grovel for FFG and a virtual lynch mob who want to string up the grovellers

I'm pretty sure there's a larger group that is both discontent with FFG, but doesn't want to lynch anyone...

18 minutes ago, ThatRobHuman said:

I'm pretty sure there's a larger group that is both discontent with FFG, but doesn't want to lynch anyone...

That's my camp haha

1 minute ago, clontroper5 said:

That's my camp haha

Same, man - I'm irked, but I'm hardly homicidal.

26 minutes ago, ThatRobHuman said:

I'm pretty sure there's a larger group that is both discontent with FFG, but doesn't want to lynch anyone...

I may have exaggerated the extreme positions of each camp a little

Just now, LordTesla said:

I may have exaggerated the extreme positions of each camp a little

I was pickin' up what you're putting down - Hyperbole is a thing and I get that - I just wanted to get that thing about the middle-folks in there because it's way too often overlooked of a position amid ... passionate discourse

1 minute ago, ThatRobHuman said:

I just wanted to get that thing about the middle-folks in there because it's way too often overlooked of a position amid ... passionate discourse  

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Something big is coming for Star Wars Armada

Big Announcements Coming at Star Wars Celebration Chicago https://www.starwarscelebration.com/

Other big Star Wars announcements, TV series, and a major movie are coming later in the year.

20 June 2020 40th Anniversary of Empire Strikes Back

Product Announcements happen when/where there is maximum impact, not on a website with relatively low traffic. As taught in any high school marketing class.

Design teams doing online content means less time designing new content.

New communications teams don't get up to speed overnight.

Disney, a company retaining some of the world's best lawyers, has a micromanaged global promotional strategy this year. FFG is part of Disney's $ billion+ marketing and promotional campaign. New players don't grow in a bubble, which this website is and why they took out the ad aimed at non-Armada players. Some of us want them to take the time to get things right, not rush things breaking the game like X-Wing 1.0. A lot of hype now only to have a delay later is more damaging than what we're getting now. Star Wars information is lacking all over, Randomhouse, Lego, starwars.com, YouTube channel have all dropped off since December. These are the facts as I see them, based on looking on the broader picture.

1 hour ago, Qualitypunk said:

Star Wars information is lacking all over

This is actually a VERY insightful point. Since Solo failed to meet sales projections at the box office things from Star Wars have been awfully quiet. Especially considering a new movie is going to be in theaters less than a year from now. Episode IX is scheduled for December 20th, yet we haven't even seen a teaser. Considering TLJ's teaser was released just a few days under a year before the movie released, and TFA was more than a year between teasers and the movie... It could be related to the radio silence we're getting from FFG.


Or it could be unrelated.

We don't know, and likely never will. lol

Edited by Darth Sanguis

I agree that Disney has a good amount of say in what products FFG can develop relating to Star Wars, I'm not certain if their input is as granulated as to completely prevent what I want to call "Community Goodies", such as the interviews, community article spotlights, staff strategy blogposts, the Corellian Campaign HoloNews casts that I mentioned - things like that. If it did, then we wouldn't hear anything new for Legion or XWing either - and there's been plenty of that in recent weeks in those games - even Destiny.

42 minutes ago, ThatRobHuman said:

I agree that Disney has a good amount of say in what products FFG can develop relating to Star Wars, I'm not certain if their input is as granulated as to completely prevent what I want to call "Community Goodies", such as the interviews, community article spotlights, staff strategy blogposts, the Corellian Campaign HoloNews casts that I mentioned - things like that. If it did, then we wouldn't hear anything new for Legion or XWing either - and there's been plenty of that in recent weeks in those games - even Destiny.

I agree that online content would be great but with the new team it may take time to develop and will do little to attract new players. Some may not even be familiar with Armada. About 1% of the local Star Wars gaming community read articles on here, mostly Legion and X-Wing. The broader gaming community and potential gamers aren't checking Armada articles here unless something guided here. I'd rather their writers focus on broader press releases, say for free handouts at Celebration, than as my father would say "preaching to the choir" on here. We all want new players, I just don't see how that happens if FFG puts their focus on here.

Hopefully FFG riding the global hype wave later this year draws more players, and yeah FFG could at least give us an announcement date. When a company just focuses on retention of current players the game is already lost, hopefully we don't see that any time soon.

4 hours ago, JauntyChapeau said:

This is a remarkably bad take. Name any other current game - even one - that stays relevant with less than one release per year and so little community engagement that there might as well be none.

Chess?

5 minutes ago, malinjathem said:

Chess?

Would chess count as a current game? Wasn't it invented around the 6th century AD? I don't think that games that have been around for 1500 years count lol

Edited by Darth Sanguis
27 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Would chess count as a current game? Wasn't it invented around the 6th century AD? I don't think that games that have been around for 1500 years count lol

Also... incoming hot take; Chess is super boring.

1 hour ago, Qualitypunk said:

I agree that online content would be great but with the new team it may take time to develop and will do little to attract new players. Some may not even be familiar with Armada. About 1% of the local Star Wars gaming community read articles on here, mostly Legion and X-Wing. The broader gaming community and potential gamers aren't checking Armada articles here unless something guided here. I'd rather their writers focus on broader press releases, say for free handouts at Celebration, than as my father would say "preaching to the choir" on here. We all want new players, I just don't see how that happens if FFG puts their focus on here.

Hopefully FFG riding the global hype wave later this year draws more players, and yeah FFG could at least give us an announcement date. When a company just focuses on retention of current players the game is already lost, hopefully we don't see that any time soon.

First off, content posted here spreads far and wide. It's not preaching to the choir. It does attract new players.

Each and every post about Armada is nearly instantly cross posted to several other places. Reddit with have several posts on it. BGG will have several posts on it. These will both spill out beyond their dedicated sites and draw attention from outside their niches also. It will show up on board gaming news sites like TGN and Dice Tower. News about expansions can even hit much bigger audiences that aren't board game focuses such as Ars Technica and Kotaku. Those posts reach audiences that may not have heard about Armada. Those posts reach audiences that may have forgotten about Armada. Those posts attract new customers.

Beyond that, it's not uncommon to overhear about things posted here to be talked about in game stores hitting even more ears.

Secondly, content posted here is not just to attract new customers, it's also to maintain current customers. And any HR or business person will tell you that it's more valuable and it's way cheaper to maintain current blood than it is to acquire new blood.

You see, you yourself make it clear you are tired of the negativity. Well you know what doesn't happen when FFG is posting regular content about Armada? Negativity. Instead the forums are a buzz with discussions, debates, predictions, playtest results, guesses as to what the half hidden cards might be, speculation into their effects, guesses at new rules, etc, etc, etc...

A little content goes a long way in producing a positive environment.

3 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

This is actually a VERY insightful point. Since Solo failed to meet sales projections at the box office things from Star Wars have been awfully quiet. Especially considering a new movie is going to be in theaters less than a year from now. Episode IX is scheduled for December 20th, yet we haven't even seen a teaser. Considering TLJ's teaser was released just a few days under a year before the movie released, and TFA was more than a year between teasers and the movie... It could be related to the radio silence we're getting from FFG.


Or it could be unrelated.

We don't know, and likely never will. lol

eh, people were saying the same thing before TLJ released and before Solo, neither case ended up being true. Basing a belief structure off ideas with no evidence is crazytown.

21 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

Lol so your argument is that it is ok to go longer than 1 year without releases for a game? 

Well...yeah. I mean, if you absolutely need the jingling car keys of "NEW STUFF OMG!11" to keep interest in a game, then just go play another game and wait until you get releases on the first one. Don't act like it's some project abandoned halfway through its development cycle; it's pretty much a complete package at this point.

Edited by Benjan Meruna
21 minutes ago, Benjan Meruna said:

Well...yeah. I mean, if you absolutely need the jingling car keys of "NEW STUFF OMG!11" to keep interest in a game, then just go play another game and wait until you get releases on the first one. Don't act like it's some project abandoned halfway through its development cycle; it's pretty much a complete package at this point.

you're right, game is healthy, environment is great, no one has a problem with anything, PUNCH AND PIE WAS SERVED!

4 hours ago, IronNerd said:

Also... incoming hot take; Chess is super boring.

But have you seen Chess’ tweets about the really big piece they’re releasing in Q1 of this year?