5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:
- Fenn Rau - Fearless, Advanced Proton Torpedoes
- Old Teroch - Fearless, Advanced Proton Torpedoes
- Kad Solus - Fearless
"Hyperspace Tracking Data! They can't get away!"
"Sir? They're not trying to get away......."
I'm personally stoked to try a striker swarm but with afterburners, which I suspect may have enough oomph to escape a head on "firing line" from the upsilons, and sounds fun to fly regardless.
APT isn't legal in Hyperspace.
1 hour ago, CRCL said:Ah I see, that's what I was missing. Still, that's a pretty fragile deployment, a well placed rock or two could really mess it up. Even if you just stop one upsilon from being able to come in hard, having a 1 vs your list trade isn't the worst.
I'll have to convince someone to play it against me and see what it's like.
They (should) have collision detector
I think you have to accept that to get behind it you are going to lose a ship. But once there,the game is winnable, but still tough by the looks of it. Glad I haven't faced it yet.
1 hour ago, Boreas Mun said:APT isn't legal in Hyperspace.
...[Reads] and only the Heavy Laser Cannon, too. Hadn't noticed that. Messes a bit with the T-70 list I was thinking about.
I'm not planning to tech against it at all but a couple things occurred to me, but only for extended and only in theory....
2 Adv Sen/Outmanoeuvre Defenders (Rex and Ryad) are very survivable and will be nigh on impossible to catch after the 1st turn. If one drops to half points on that Alpha, you possibly have the rest of the game to try and chew enough points off them for a win. But losing Final Salvo is also an outcome that may be on the cards. Tends to be that if you don't want to take shots, you just don't, but it limits the damage you can do.
One I have no idea how it would do. Moralo and Emon Azzameen with Boba crew. Tricks here are pretty obvious and it will probably struggle against almost anything else. If nothing else, it may force the FO player to deploy normally, which I'd take as a moral victory.
For Hyperspace, I'm just gonna throw Boba, Swarm Teroch and a Zealous Recruit at it from 2 different directions and cross my fingers
Am I too old-school to think a swarm of simple, cheap TIE Interceptors spread across the board couldn't get behind and take 'em? I kinda think so... but yeah, I've flown way too many squints in 1.0, none in 2.0.
Where's my tea?
I've not played against the list, so I don't really have any particularly valuable advice to give but is this a situation where Han Yolo might actually be useful.?
At I6, all you have to do is have a big enough bid to place after the three Upsilons and then park him somewhere behind at least one, preferably two, of the Upsilons.
He should be able to tank Dormitz's opening shot and still have enough HP to go a few more rounds. The scary thing is the amount of effort it takes to kill just one of those Ups. 12HP with reinforce and 1 agility is absolutely enormous.
No idea who he'd go with. I want to say Rey, but I feel like that's just not enough damage output, even with Rey's big combos.
Other than that... am I totally off base for thinking 4x Lamba is an option to out joust it? I know it doesn't have anywhere as much access to easy dice mods and 4x3 red dice isn't as good as 3x4 , but it's a lot of health for those Ups to wear down, and the rear arc might make up the gap after the first engagement.
There's enough points for Adv Sensors and ISB slicers on two of them, so if you can get one through the initial engagment, you should be able to jam some tokens off next round. Or maybe try and leverage Sloane and Death Troopers? Sadly it's not possible to fit Sloane, Death Troopers and Krennic and Tarkin on Jendon by just two points, I feel like that could have given some very good options to mess with target priority.
...I know exactly what's going on:
1) The Lambda had strong sales for FFG, so they thought the dark Batmanian version would do just as well or perhaps better with the slightly improved dial and 4 red dice, so they made bunches of them and thought money, money, money at $40 a pop. 2) But it was a below average at best support ship (saw little to no play), was really only a 40 dollar Kylo crew card tax, and arguably garnered the trophy: "worst large based SW ship the game has and will ever have" award. 3) With this in mind, they now roll into 2.0 design and there is a **** pile of these in warehouses and sitting on shelves in LGS's (mine has had four since the initial splash when they were released and the first lot went fast, and the secondary shipment didn't). 4) FFG thinks for a bit and design the costs and the upgrades so they can have these spammed and create the new Dengaroo boogieman that will generate sales to offload these things and sell the converse counter ships (whatever that list(s) ends up being). 5) I mean, the First Order doesn't have another hammer list as Kylo is restricted to obscurity by his limited I5, high cost, squishy craft and Quickie is but a shadow of his former 1.0 powerful self. Face it, without the Tripsilon terror, the entire FIRST ORDER Faction IS DOOMED.
Yes? No?
In any event, they are as cheaper than a TIE/SF if you are an Amazonian fan:
Edited by clanofwolves34 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:Am I too old-school to think a swarm of simple, cheap TIE Interceptors spread across the board couldn't get behind and take 'em? I kinda think so... but yeah, I've flown way too many squints in 1.0, none in 2.0.
Where's my tea?
You lose at least one squint in the opening, and then you have to push damage through against reinforced targets, potentially focus/reinforced depending on init, whilst avoiding three big arcs which hit hard enough to one shot unlucky squints.
It's not a GOOD answer.
10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:You lose at least one squint in the opening, and then you have to push damage through against reinforced targets, potentially focus/reinforced depending on init, whilst avoiding three big arcs which hit hard enough to one shot unlucky squints.
It's not a GOOD answer.
Come on vader, could you let a guy dream for just a minute?
32 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:Other than that... am I totally off base for thinking 4x Lamba is an option to out joust it?
Having actually flowm 4x Lambda , I'm pretty sure three loaded-up is much better than 4 bare. Many 2.0 ships like to be flown light. The Lambda isn't one unless you're sticking it in a purely support role.
1 minute ago, JJ48 said:Having actually flowm 4x Lambda , I'm pretty sure three loaded-up is much better than 4 bare. Many 2.0 ships like to be flown light. The Lambda isn't one unless you're sticking it in a purely support role.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Even with the raw stats, I could see how 4x Omicrons would really struggle to actually put damage through. Dropping to 3 lets me take all the upgrades I wanted to get on the four, and more.
Advanced Sensors on everything for Jam actions or pre movement co-ordinates, Sloane and ISB Slicers on an Omicron, Death Troopers and ST-321 on Sai, Tarkin and Krennic on Jendon. 200 points exactly. Not bad for something that really doesn't care about a bid. Stress control if you kill one of the named Lambdas, Target locks for both named if you kill Sloane. And the potential for all three ships to get locks beyond range 3 twice a game.
Only problem I see with 3xLambda specifically against the Ups is they're just going to get out diced, out HPed and out tokened even with all those tricks.
Still, could be interesting to see.
Just as a word of caution:
Somehow everyone not having played against the list is very confident that it's not that big of a deal. There are all kinds of reasons why your solution works great, why that upgrade is all you need, how just getting behind solves it, how you can take them down later, how 1 agility melts fast, how obstacles are really helpful, and so on and so on. I know because I am/was exactly the same.
Somehow those who have played against the list have lost.
Most of those solutions work fantastically against one upsilon.
16 hours ago, PhantomFO said:While I'll give you your other points, if you can't get three boost- and barrel-roll-capable ships to train bullseye arcs on the same lower-PS, large-based shuttle, you should probably just sell your collection now. This game ain't for you.
I mean, you do realize that if you're having to use your action to reposition (boost and/or barrel roll) to get your bullseye arc that it's a net loss right? Adding a 4th die without any modifiers (expected 2 hits) is actually worse than just having 3 Dice with a Focus (expected 2.25 hits). So, if you have the shot, don't waste actions pointlessly trying to get the bullseye arc because you're statistically costing yourself damage...
Now, total fringe case, if you're S-Foils are closed and you can red-link a Focus to Barrel Roll to get that Bullseye Arc
and
the Focus token, then go for it, I suppose, if you don't mind the stress.
Basically, the major lesson is that HLC is simply not worth it generally, though looks a bit more appealing on 2-Attack ships or IG88Bs, maybe.
38 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Just as a word of caution:
Somehow everyone not having played against the list is very confident that it's not that big of a deal. There are all kinds of reasons why your solution works great, why that upgrade is all you need, how just getting behind solves it, how you can take them down later, how 1 agility melts fast, how obstacles are really helpful, and so on and so on. I know because I am/was exactly the same.
Somehow those who have played against the list have lost.
I'd urge anyone who plans to play at a Store Championship or higher event, and wants to do well , to have a plan for Triple Upsilons. It's a gatekeeper list. The solution isn't likely to build a list specifically designed to defeat it. Those lists probably just lose to the rest of the field. More likely, the solution is to figure out a strategy/tactic with your preferred list and/or a minor tweak to your preferred list to give you an edge. If you can't find that edge, then it's either time to move to a different list or accept probable defeat in that match up.
If you don't play competitively and/or don't really care about how you do at larger events, then I don't think headsim answers are going to be helpful, because those answers are generally dismissive in the first place. That's not really a dig at anyone doing that, just...there are a lot of us competitive players who would like to see this list go away and "just get behind it" suggestions just create a lot of noise that's not helpful.
3 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:I mean, you do realize that if you're having to use your action to reposition (boost and/or barrel roll) to get your bullseye arc that it's a net loss right? Adding a 4th die without any modifiers (expected 2 hits) is actually worse than just having 3 Dice with a Focus (expected 2.25 hits). So, if you have the shot, don't waste actions pointlessly trying to get the bullseye arc because you're statistically costing yourself damage...
Now, total fringe case, if you're S-Foils are closed and you can red-link a Focus to Barrel Roll to get that Bullseye Arc and the Focus token, then go for it, I suppose, if you don't mind the stress.
Basically, the major lesson is that HLC is simply not worth it generally, though looks a bit more appealing on 2-Attack ships or IG88Bs, maybe.
HLC on Poe or Nien is absolutely viable, arguably preferable after the proton torps points boost if your list needs the points. Also, doing the focus into linked red BR isn't a fringe case, I do it all of the time. Lastly, if the reposition action gets you out of arcs while also giving you an unmodified shot, that's usually preferable. I suspect you have played a lot of T-70s in 2.0.
1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:I've not played against the list, so I don't really have any particularly valuable advice to give but is this a situation where Han Yolo might actually be useful.?
At I6, all you have to do is have a big enough bid to place after the three Upsilons and then park him somewhere behind at least one, preferably two, of the Upsilons.
Isn't it better to place him before Upsilons? You can place him next to enemy edge of the board, because there is no enemy ships there yet.
8 hours ago, Oldpara said:Wedge Antilles (52)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
R2 Astromech (4)
Afterburners (6)
Servomotor S-foils (0)Luke Skywalker (62)
Supernatural Reflexes (24)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
R2-D2 (6)
Afterburners (6)
Servomotor S-foils (0)Total: 184
As for Tripsilion match up: you place Wedge after Upsilons, so you can control approach. With Luke you just use Supernatural to get shot only once in initial, then they'll never see you again. You probably loose Wedge but you need to kill 1,5 Upsilon to win. Easy.
I feel like I personally lack the intestinal fortitude to fly a two ship list with 12 hit points behind 2 green dice, but seems cool. Thanks.
25 minutes ago, Boreas Mun said:Isn't it better to place him before Upsilons? You can place him next to enemy edge of the board, because there is no enemy ships there yet.
I think you need the bid... if I were the Upsilons you did that first, I think I'd just box in Han and take him out on turn 1.
2 minutes ago, ahdaniels76 said:I think you need the bid... if I were the Upsilons you did that first, I think I'd just box in Han and take him out on turn 1.
Yup, given that opportunity I'd be pretty surprised if the Upsilons couldn't just keep him boxed in a corner without shots forever.
Resistance Han anyone? He will be laughing as he sets up behind the entire mess of ships and just hammers away. Toss in a couple of X-Wings or maybe some speedy A-Wings and you can out fly/pepper away fro he rear:
Slippery Resistance
(76) Han Solo
(14) Rey
(1) Heroic
(5) Cluster Missiles
(5) Chewbacca
(9) Rose Tico
Points 110
(34) Green Squadron Expert
(6) Ferrosphere Paint
(1) Heroic
Points 41
(34) Green Squadron Expert
(6) Ferrosphere Paint
(1) Heroic
Points 41
Total points: 192
Or conversely use 2.0 GhostFenn to shut down the Shuttle that has the target lock/focus so it can't use either of those:
Ghost of Fenn
(84) Kanan Jarrus
(4) Ion Cannon Turret
(6) Veteran Turret Gunner
(2) Leia Organa
(4) Chewbacca
(2) Fire-Control System
(2) Tactical Scrambler
(0) Ghost
Points 104
(52) Fenn Rau
Points 52
(35) Evaan Verlaine
(2) Dorsal Turret
(6) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points 43
Total points: 199
Finally you could out-joust it with this another reinforced squad like:
Reinforcements
(73) Hera Syndulla
(0) Ghost
(4) Ion Cannon Turret
(6) Veteran Turret Gunner
(8) Magva Yarro
(2) Fire-Control System
Points 93
(32) AP-5
Points 32
(56) Wullffwarro
(8) Saw Gerrera
(8) R2-D2
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 75
Total points: 200
The latter of the three would be the one I would most opt to try as it's similar to what I've been flying so far in 2.0 but I think some of the heavy hitting/tanky squadrons could enough damage and survive against the triple bats. But I haven't gone up against it because of the "who has three bats" argument, which also leads me to agree with the statement that they are such a powerhouse because of FFG wanting to move old stock.
9 minutes ago, GILLIES291 said:Or conversely use 2.0 GhostFenn to shut down the Shuttle that has the target lock/focus so it can't use either of those:
Not in Hyperspace format.
3 hours ago, clanofwolves said:...I know exactly what's going on:
1) The Lambda had strong sales for FFG, so they thought the dark Batmanian version would do just as well or perhaps better with the slightly improved dial and 4 red dice, so they made bunches of them and thought money, money, money at $40 a pop. 2) But it was a below average at best support ship (saw little to no play), was really only a 40 dollar Kylo crew card tax, and arguably garnered the trophy: "worst large based SW ship the game has and will ever have" award. 3) With this in mind, they now roll into 2.0 design and there is a **** pile of these in warehouses and sitting on shelves in LGS's (mine has had four since the initial splash when they were released and the first lot went fast, and the secondary shipment didn't). 4) FFG thinks for a bit and design the costs and the upgrades so they can have these spammed and create the new Dengaroo boogieman that will generate sales to offload these things and sell the converse counter ships (whatever that list(s) ends up being). 5) I mean, the First Order doesn't have another hammer list as Kylo is restricted to obscurity by his limited I5, high cost, squishy craft and Quickie is but a shadow of his former 1.0 powerful self. Face it, without the Tripsilon terror, the entire FIRST ORDER Faction IS DOOMED.
Yes? No?
The upgrades and ships have existed in roughly the same way since 1.0: Collision Detector, Hyperwave Comm Scanner, Dormitz's ability. So at the risk of taking a possible joke post seriously, I'd say no.
Far more likely that a B or C rank list is rising to A rank with the 2.0 changes nerfing previous A rank lists out of the competition.
Edited by Koing90710 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Not in Hyperspace format.
Hyperspace is doing great to open up the meta. 😩
1 minute ago, Koing907 said:The upgrades and ships have existed in roughly the same way since 1.0: Collision Detector, Hyperwave Comm Scanner, Dormitz's ability. So at the risk of taking a possible joke post seriously, I'd say no.
It was much, much more possible to weather two 4 dice modified shots at range 3 in 1e, though, and the Upsilons didn't have reinforce to avoid getting burned down quickly either.