I gotta say, Iwas expecting more tie fighters in 2.0, but aside from the first few games at my club I hardly ever see them anymore. I guess it is because they go pop too quick and people dont want to bother with them.

Could it be that a lot of people just find TIE/lns a little... Boring? Relatively squishy, not a very exciting dial...

I love them... I'm trying to include 2 minimum per squad at the moment... They never seem to fail to get their points either through damage or through the annoyance value

31 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

I think its because the Tie/ln is not the T65's coutnerpart. The Tie/ln's counterpart is the Z95. and neither have flashy manuevuers.

Still searching for those z95 in my Core Set.

The TIE swarm archetype isn't seen as much, to my mind, for two reasons: it had a pretty hard counter in Trajectory Simulated bombs and, more importantly, it's really difficult to fly to success (particularly over the course of a long event) as there's so many more dials to account for and not much room for error with how explodey they can be.
With bomb-flinging being so much more expensive now, you might start to see a bit of a resurgence among those willing to put in the time to get good at it (Personally I'm not!), and Iden can really help deal with their other big weakness - getting obliterated immediately by alpha strikes and ordnance.

31 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Still searching for those z95 in my Core Set.

Ahh in that case, try flying the Ties separately and force the X-Wing to chase one while taking fire from the other.

43 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Still searching for those z95 in my Core Set.

Why would there be Z-95s in the Core Set?

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Why would there be Z-95s in the Core Set?

I never said it should. I meant that the T65 is a counterpart to the TIE /ln in that basic Core experience and should as such, have gained some new manoeuver as well (a 3 sloop, for example).

Couple of points I haven’t seen yet or briefly touched on.

First: People are just not used to having more than 3-4 ships. The game changes when you get into 5-6-7 territory. Not just from a mental aspect but from a how to approach and get everything moving smoothly without jamming up your own lanes.

Second: people are still under the perception that 2 dice attacks are ineffective. The thing is 1 hit from 8 ships is still a lot of damage. Even in bigger ships. Reinforce is no longer invalidating 2 dice attacks. Yet the perception is still that you need 3 dice attacks or you wil not be able to win.

3 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

I never said it should. I meant that the T65 is a counterpart to the TIE /ln in that basic Core experience and should as such, have gained some new manoeuver as well (a 3 sloop, for example).

But the TIE's dial was already pretty decent for what it does. You have two in the core, vs one X-Wing, to demonstrate that its strengths are in cheap numbers, rather than being a jack-of-all-trades like the X-Wing.

15 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

But the TIE's dial was already pretty decent for what it does. You have two in the core, vs one X-Wing, to demonstrate that its strengths are in cheap numbers, rather than being a jack-of-all-trades like the X-Wing.

TIEs are supposed to be nimble but agile. How do you explain they don't get at least as much possibilities to turn around as the X-wing does? That doesn't make any sense.
The thing already has only 3HP and no shields, they deserve to be less predictable than only K-turns.

41 minutes ago, Ronu said:

Couple of points I haven’t seen yet or briefly touched on.

First: People are just not used to having more than 3-4 ships. The game changes when you get into 5-6-7 territory. Not just from a mental aspect but from a how to approach and get everything moving smoothly without jamming up your own lanes.

Second: people are still under the perception that 2 dice attacks are ineffective. The thing is 1 hit from 8 ships is still a lot of damage. Even in bigger ships. Reinforce is no longer invalidating 2 dice attacks. Yet the perception is still that you need 3 dice attacks or you wil not be able to win.

Or even just 5-6 ships. I got wrecked by a Howlie/Iden/Del/Gideon/Wampa/academy last weekend during a tournament. Those 2 die attacks really do add up.

I do second the notion that people aren’t used it. I’m honestly surprised 8 Tie swarm isn’t one of the top contenders for hyperspace format.

Hearing all the “flying swarms is too taxing” makes me question how well the CIS will fare as a faction. They can’t not swarm with their initial release of content.

Now, I’m not great at flying swarms myself, but maybe I should give it a go out of left field. Surprise everyone.

But yes, the tie fighter didn’t get adjusted because nothing is wrong with it. It’s plenty good just not the favored way to play 3-4 ship dogfighting.

1 hour ago, Giledhil said:

TIEs are supposed to be nimble but agile. How do you explain they don't get at least as much possibilities to turn around as the X-wing does? That doesn't make any sense.
The thing already has only 3HP and no shields, they deserve to be less predictable than only K-turns.

They have 3 Agility and a lot of turn options. But turnarounds put a lot of stress on any craft, and it makes a bit of sense that something as light as a basic TIE may not fare well with the more extreme ones.

2 hours ago, Giledhil said:

TIEs are supposed to be nimble but agile. How do you explain they don't get at least as much possibilities to turn around as the X-wing does? That doesn't make any sense.

They are nimble an agile. 3 agility, white 1-speed turns, and a speed 5 straight maneuver. All three are things the X-Wing doesn't have access to without upgrades, action use, or being at the right distance or right spot behind an obstacle in combat.

If they X-Wing didn't have the extra turn-around maneuvers it gained in second edition, the TIE Fighter would outfly it 100% of the time even with just K-turns as their only options for turning around.

2 hours ago, Giledhil said:

The thing already has only 3HP and no shields, they deserve to be less predictable than only K-turns.

Well, if you want to stick a lore reason to it, the TIE Fighter was a pretty predictable ship. And the X-Wing was a better quality ship anyways.

The First Order is happy to have you join their ranks though. Their fancy, "better-than-Empire" TIE/fo Fighter has those different turn-around maneuvers you're looking for.

3 hours ago, SoontirFel said:

Could it be that a lot of people just find TIE/lns a little... Boring? Relatively squishy, not a very exciting dial...

This is it for me. I love list building and theorycrafting. But the TIE/ln is pretty well set. There is the Academy 8, Howl 7, the Howl/Iden 6 named all, and pretty much you know which pilots to use in a list based on numbers.

There isn’t really much upgrades going around, except the occasional EPT, mostly Swarm Tactics, Crack Shot, and Marksmanship for Seyn.

Which isn’t exciting for me. Why I’ll never run a true TIE swarm, I don’t fly meta or netlists. But there isn’t really much reason to diverge from the set lists per number of craft. So if I’m flying them it’s usually as 2-3 ships of named pilots as a compliment to the rest of my list.

So, yeah, nothing I get too excited over because there isn’t anything for me to do interesting in list building.

56 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

The First Order is happy to have you join their ranks though. Their fancy, "better-than-Empire" TIE/fo Fighter has those different turn-around maneuvers you're looking for.

Exactly, the Tie/ln needs to be fairly basic so other ships can shine, I hadn't thought about the Tie/fo but that's one of best examples!

People want TIE Swarms to be good, but nobody wants to actually fly them because it's a PIA so that's why you don't see them in tournaments.

One version I haven't seen is the Six TIE swarm tactics alpha. Howl with swarm tactics, iden and wampa, and 3 Blacks with swarm tactics each.

1 hour ago, Tvboy said:

People want TIE Swarms to be good, but nobody wants to actually fly them because it's a PIA so that's why you don't see them in tournaments.

One version I haven't seen is the Six TIE swarm tactics alpha. Howl with swarm tactics, iden and wampa, and 3 Blacks with swarm tactics each.

LN Alpha (199)
“Howlrunner” — TIE/ln Fighter	40
Swarm Tactics	3
Ship Total: 43
Half Points: 22 Threshold: 2
 	
“Scourge” Skutu — TIE/ln Fighter	32
Swarm Tactics	3
Ship Total: 35
Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2
 	
“Mauler” Mithel — TIE/ln Fighter	32
Swarm Tactics	3
Ship Total: 35
Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2
 	
Iden Versio — TIE/ln Fighter	40
Ship Total: 40
Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2
 	
Academy Pilot — TIE/ln Fighter	23
Ship Total: 23
Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2
 	
Academy Pilot — TIE/ln Fighter	23
Ship Total: 23
Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2

You lose Wampa but the I5 will stay around longer if Howl gets nuked.

Inspired by this thread, I took a seven-TIE swarm to my league night yesterday. Seyn, Gideon, Rudor, and four Black Squadron Aces. Everyone had Crack Shot except for Seyn, who had Marksmanship instead.

I was pretty rusty, so I went 1-1 on the night. I mulched a double ARC-170 list pretty handily, but lost my second match to a pair of Supernatural Inquisitors with Concussion Missiles paired with Vessery.

At no point did I ever think the ship chassis was the problem. Rather, my biggest issues came from self-inflicted wounds (landing on an asteroid TWICE with my lead TIE) and and general mental fatigue once the swarm breaks up. Mapping positions for that many ships, while also trying to account for the potential maneuvers of your opponent, taxes you mentally haven't been doing it regularly. That leads to mistakes which quickly snowball. A misjudged bank causes you to fail a barrel roll with one TIE, which causes you to block your own K-turn with the next, leaving you stressed, actionless and facing the wrong direction for multiple turns.

4 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Mapping positions for that many ships, while also trying to account for the potential maneuvers of your opponent, taxes you mentally haven't been doing it regularly. That leads to mistakes which quickly snowball. A misjudged bank causes you to fail a barrel roll with one TIE, which causes you to block your own K-turn with the next, leaving you stressed, actionless and facing the wrong direction for multiple turns.

Exactly this. I wonder if the future of the TIE/ln in the tournament scene really will be in the mini swarm? I can't speak to it much myself, but 4 academies with 2 pocket aces (Duchess and Soontir?) seems way too good to pass up and has various ways of dealing with its problems. Even 3 named plus a Defender or something like that sounds like a good value, while still not making your brain run out your ears.

LN seems to me to be in a good place; its strength has always been numbers, it doesn't need fancy-pants sloops or T-rolls.

I've been flying Soontir with a Scimitar, then Howl with two Black Aces and been doing well with those.

Imperial TIE l/n swarm or mini swarm in the hands of a competent player is brutal.

At the start of the battle it's not that taxing, you basically assign the +/- same maneuver to every one. But if they brake up, it gets complicated and mentally taxing, as mentioned above.

Another problem is also that battles with swarm on one side are more likely to be ended by the clock running out. Thus the bleeding MOV by loosing TIEs can actually loose you the battle, because you did not kill enough or got enough to half points before time ran out, while the opponent profits from your sqhishy TIEs being blown up or sacrified in blocks.

On 2/1/2019 at 3:01 PM, PhantomFO said:

Inspired by this thread, I took a seven-TIE swarm to my league night yesterday. Seyn, Gideon, Rudor, and four Black Squadron Aces. Everyone had Crack Shot except for Seyn, who had Marksmanship instead.

I was pretty rusty, so I went 1-1 on the night. I mulched a double ARC-170 list pretty handily, but lost my second match to a pair of Supernatural Inquisitors with Concussion Missiles paired with Vessery.

At no point did I ever think the ship chassis was the problem. Rather, my biggest issues came from self-inflicted wounds (landing on an asteroid TWICE with my lead TIE)

You’re my hero.

...and, I did this (last sentence) twice with my bet TIE, by a millimeter each time. Uggg

On 1/31/2019 at 3:58 PM, Magnus Grendel said:

I noticed that now, I can field a "Where In The Galaxy Is Cive Rashon?" swarm with all the obsidians except Howlrunner - 7 Obsidian Squadron Pilots and Night Beast with Afterburners. Speed 3 straight with boost/focus/roll is a surprising amount of manoeuvrability from a cheap ship.

Having used the above Ruthlessness swarm in our local Yavin event, I can confirm that. 3-4 games on the trot is one thing, but I suspect I'd be completely mind-borked trying to use them for the entirety of a multi-day event. They're really good - Ruthless Swarms brutalise people who don't realise how nasty it is - but it is exhausting.

being new to anything other than the odd casual pickup games can you elaborate on "Where In The Galaxy Is Cive Rashon?" and Ruthless Swarms please

I love my tie fighters and one of the thing's I'd like to perfect is just getting good with them for all the reasons above.

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 11:05 PM, Kaleb daark said:

"Where In The Galaxy Is Cive Rashon?"

That was just intended as a 'Carmen Sandiago' joke (Cive Rashon is "Howlrunner's" name).

Essentially taking advantage of the reduced cost of Afterburners:

• "Night Beast" - Afterburners
• Obsidian Squadron Pilot x 7

It gives you an 'extra ship' compared to any squad including Howlrunner, and you have no specific reason to fly in a 2x4 'brick' - a common failing with TIE swarms - meaning you can come in in a true loose 'swarm', and get flanking shots to avoid reinforce and take whatever route through the obstacles you like. You lose out on Howlrunner's awesome ability, but the extra attacker is pretty close to giving you the same extra firepower, and you're not risking getting Howlrunner 'punched out' at I6 before anyone fires (which normally people feel they have to invest another 40 points in Iden Versio to prevent!)

"Night Beast" is a great little ship when he's not pinned to flying in formation. With his pilot ability plus afterburners, he gets a free focus whenever he does a blue move and a free boost whenever he does a speed 3+ move. That leads to some pretty impressive options - speed 3 straight/focus/boost/barrel roll, for example, or turtle up speed 2 bank/focus/evade. He's no soontir fel, but he's also about the price of a generic Omega Squadron TIE/fo, so what are you expecting?

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 11:05 PM, Kaleb daark said:

Ruthless Swarms

Basically shedloads of Black Squadron Aces with Ruthless. It's an incredibly powerful ability (blank-or-focus-to-hit) which is cheap because it has a painful downside.

My squad was:

• "Mauler" Mithel - Ruthless
• Valen Rudor - Squad Leader
• Black Squadron Ace - Ruthless x 5

This is no longer possible, since Squad Leader now costs a lot more, and that comes to 204 points.

As a result, I'd change it to either:

• Valen Rudor - Squad Leader
• Black Squadron Ace - Ruthless x 6

(I basically lose "Mauler" - which is nice as everyone's now at the same initiative, but a pain as I lost my initiative 5 'pocket ace')

• "Mauler" Mithel - Ruthless
• Valen Rudor - Ruthless
• "Wampa"
• Black Squadron Ace - Ruthless x 4

(Kind of a waste of Rudor's ability, but a spontaneous free evade or barrel roll is never bad, it's just restricted to him rather than the whole squad)

Or

• "Mauler" Mithel - Swarm Tactics
• "Wampa"
• Black Squadron Ace - Ruthless x 5

(Mithel will normally 'Swarm' with "Wampa", so the latter fires at initiative 5, before he gets shot at and loses his bonus attack die)