So now that I am sucked into another plastic Crack addition by FFG, I am trying to figure out when death troopers are dropping.

sooooo excited to tell people about My Achivement Not theirs.

1 hour ago, Cubanboy said:

So now that I am sucked into another plastic Crack addition by FFG, I am trying to figure out when death troopers are dropping.

sooooo excited to tell people about My Achivement Not theirs.

If everything goes well, Jyn and Pathfinders surely will be out by the end of February and Krennic and Deathtroopers by the end of March

4 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

If everything goes well, Jyn and Pathfinders surely will be out by the end of February and Krennic and Deathtroopers by the end of March

That's the common "word on the street" and follows the trend of Legion's monthly releases.

I'm sure, some Spanish fly will come forward soon

So I was just looking at the Deathtroopers card because I have never really looked at it and those guys look crazy good. I also like the guard. That's a lot of points for both and I like running Vader and Fett. What to do?

20 minutes ago, ScottGilbert25 said:

So I was just looking at the Deathtroopers card because I have never really looked at it and those guys look crazy good. I also like the guard. That's a lot of points for both and I like running Vader and Fett. What to do?

They look like good generalists, so I'd recommend cutting down the Corp somewhat

3 hours ago, ScottGilbert25 said:

So I was just looking at the Deathtroopers card because I have never really looked at it and those guys look crazy good. I also like the guard. That's a lot of points for both and I like running Vader and Fett. What to do?

I'm was actually quite hesitant on them because of Pierce. That 3+ save doesn't help against that nasty little keyword. I will say, though, now that Medical droids are a thing, and having seen how amazing they are, keeping some Stormies nearby to heal them could be huge.

44 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

I'm was actually quite hesitant on them because of Pierce. That 3+ save doesn't help against that nasty little keyword. I will say, though, now that Medical droids are a thing, and having seen how amazing they are, keeping some Stormies nearby to heal them could be huge.

Yeah they will yield a very efficient return on investment with the medical droids

One thing I didn’t realize about Pathfinders and Deathtroopers is that though they can only add one heavy unit, they actually come with six minis.

No doubt because of unique heavy weapons on the minis, but I just like that you get six minis instead of the normal five.

Also, is it just me, or do the Deathtroopers seem like a Swiss Army knife?

They come with a melee attack and two ranged attacks, then you can even add a blaster and a grenade, and that’s not even including the heavy!

Imperials are getting too good and out distancing the rebels in power and flexibility. I play both, but like the rebels as the “good guys” more, but when the Clones and Jedi come, my favourite will change. Talk about not being able to wait, and they’re months away!🥺😬😳

4 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

Imperials are getting too good and out distancing the rebels in power and flexibility.

We'll see. The 'infiltrate' keyword on Pathfinder might be broken good. Will have to wait and see.

1 hour ago, SirCormac said:

We'll see. The 'infiltrate' keyword on Pathfinder might be broken good. Will have to wait and see.

Yeah I'm hoping it will tilt the balance in the Rebel's favor and let them play objectives really well.

1 hour ago, JediPartisan said:

Imperials are getting too good and out distancing the rebels in power and flexibility

I'm not to worried about the power creep just yet. They're poised to be the most expensive non unique trooper unit in the game, but a deceptively frail one with how common pierce is from rebel units even if you stick a stormtrooper unit with a medic up their butt.

Their damage is good, but even rebel troopers still out power them for the same cost

Guessing March for those Deathtroopers.

Which is fine - I have over a month to play with my specialists and get them all painted nice. Plenty of time.

Can’t WAIT for them... they will be a great addition to the imperial ranks.

That said... I am NOT looking forward to painting them. Blech.

1 hour ago, Lord Ashram said:

That said... I am NOT looking forward to painting them. Blech.

Why? Paint them some other color but the flat black if you don’t want to deal with it.

I will probably end up painting them up some not-Black color.

I really enjoyed painting Vader and the emperor in shades of subtle dark greys and blacks and then bringing out the details with progressively lighter highlights. The death troopers should be pretty fun to paint

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

Why? Paint them some other color but the flat black if you don’t want to deal with it.

I will probably end up painting them up some not-Black color.

I’ve gotta keep it canon:)

Not a lover of painting black. My Vader and Emperor turned out good, but I didn’t enjoy it!:)

20 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Their damage is good, but even rebel troopers still out power them for the same cost

Rebel troopers don't out power anyone. In fact, rebels don't have a unit that can do this type of damage at this range, Luke in melee is the only one close and that's not counting the heavy weapon choices

21 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

I'm not to worried about the power creep just yet. They're poised to be the most expensive non unique trooper unit in the game, but a deceptively frail one with how common pierce is from rebel units even if you stick a stormtrooper unit with a medic up their butt.

Their damage is good, but even rebel troopers still out power them for the same cost

It’s not so much power creep as unbalancing between the two factions. I know they’ll eventually correct it, but it will be a while before they do, and in the meantime fewer people will play rebels.

Its better when both sides are different but equal in power, that way it’s fun for both sides.

Besides, “Take pleasure in you opponent’s success” ~ Sun Tzu. Meaning, if your opponent is powerful and you beat them, your accomplishment is all the greater, but if they’re weak to begin with, it’s meaningless.

Just my 2 cents, which with inflation, is meaningless too.😁

17 hours ago, Lord Ashram said:

I’ve gotta keep it canon:)

Not a lover of painting black. My Vader and Emperor turned out good, but I didn’t enjoy it!:)

I painted Palp with a dark dark blue, then added a lot of black wash. Sorta turned out. Not my favorite but not the worst work I’ve ever done.

Vader? I admit it.... I was too new and terrified of messing that up. I had a friend who is a master painter do him.

For the death troopers, I’m going to end up breaching canon I think.

Which isn’t a big deal.... my stormies all have a colored shoulder armor to help keep them in proper cohesion, my snowtroopers are forest colored Galactic Marines, and my scouts look more like the ROTS barc troopers than they do scout troopers. And that ATST that resembles how you’d camo one up in a forest with brown legs and a green cockpit.

Royal guards are close... sorta. But most of my stuff has breached that wall long ago so I just make it look cool. Just characters I try to keep accurate.

17 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

It’s not so much power creep as unbalancing between the two factions. I know they’ll eventually correct it, but it will be a while before they do, and in the meantime fewer people will play rebels

I’m not convinced they aren’t unbalanced, at least with what is released thus far. They play very differently, sure, but that’s sort of the point. I think, for the most part, Rebel hero command cards are “better” or at least there are more combinations of them you can take. The imperial player is highly unlikely to be doubling up on commanders, meaning the choice pool is more limited.

Imperials are better at “conventional maneuver warfare” because of their stronger defense dice and weapons like the DLT. This is somewhat thematic, as they are the dominant force in the galaxy during the GCW.

Rebel characters are solid. Rebel units are better at trying to prevent damage in the first place (nimble keyword, all the command cards that hand out dodges, or Han’s uncanny luck for example). They also have more Pierce options than Imperials.

I play Imperial, but I don’t think Rebels are in trouble. Just play out differently. I have noticed a significant difference in the game between mirror matches or matches against a Rebel player.... at least a significant difference on any of the games that end close. When Rebels try to play like Imps they die horribly.

1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

Rebel troopers don't out power anyone. In fact, rebels don't have a unit that can do this type of damage at this range, Luke in melee is the only one close and that's not counting the heavy weapon choices

If they had arsenal then I'd agree with you, but they don't. Rebels with the extra trooper alone average the same damage at the same range as the deathtroopers. Commandos roll the same dice at the same range. The pathfinders out damage them with their 4 person unit, barely. Chewie also breaks even with their damage. Since you said unit, the RT with the rotary gun, T-47, and dish turret all out damage them at the equivalent ranges. At range 2, fleets with the extra and wookies both out damage them. The only rebel units that can't break even with them are Leia and the generic commander. Han can, but his damage is spread between targets.

My initial thoughts on the unit haven't changed. Against corp unit they will mop them up. Against special forces and named units they will have much more difficulty with their low, but consistent, damage output and weakness to pierce.

Just to weigh in a little for what it's worth (probably just 2 cents), but I run into the misconception that Empire is clearly better a lot. My standard practice with this in Legion, like any other game, is to offer the individual making the assertions a game and see what happens. I do this with pretty much every game. When an X-Wing player basically concluded low Initiative pilots will never get off Torpedoes I offered him a game and both of my Initiative 2 Y-Wings dumped all 4 torpedoes into Initiative 5 pilots before the game's end. When someone asserted that the Shadows of the Retribution theme list in Warmachine had no hitting power, I offered him a game against his list with the most armor and hp and promptly tabled him.

It's no different in Legion and I'm undefeated in these demonstration games, but the point of the endeavor isn't to gloat, but to teach and to break false assumptions, so after or even during the game, I'll ask questions. Most them are geared towards correcting how the person views the game. In the X-Wing game mentioned above, I asked him how I got the Torpedoes off. the answer was pretty simple, I used an approach through asteroids to limit his options and blocked him at range 2 of both ships. The point isn't to answer the question, but think about the setup because this clearly demonstrates that Initiative isn't the only factor in determining success, indeed, forcing him into predictable movement lanes was a much larger factor and allowed me to dictate the flow of the game very easily.

In the same vein, I always ask why Empire is better after these games, most of which end in near tabling, to try and force a re contextualization of how they value certain stats and abilities. A classic example is the DLT and it's often cited as a big reason, but I'll usually turn my opponent's attention to the gameflow and ask "What was your DLT doing that my Z6 wasn't?" and that's usually where the epiphany hits. 1-2 DLTs might have gotten a range 4 shot off maybe killing a trooper, but most of the game they were just Z6's with more reliability, but less spike potential and less odds of rolling natural crits. In short, the DLT is better than the Z6, but not in every area and frequently they end up doing basically the same thing, but the Z6 just does it for less points. In this example, again, we're trying to get our opponent to think about the setup. He has a ranged advantage, why wasn't he able to do anything meaningful with it? Usually a combination of mission objectives and use of Heavy cover or LoS blocking terrain, in short realizing that stats are not the only factor in success, much like with the Y-Wings.

To put my thoughts on relative game balance as of right now:

-At the early stages of skill, Empire will seem to have an advantage. This is because their skill floor is lower than rebels. Most of the stuff just does what it says on the box with no real added complexity. For this reason, Rebels will probably look weak pretty early because the context for using them properly and getting the most out of their advantages while mitigating opposing advantages just isn't there.

-This evens out a lot in the mid range of skill where Imperial players will get some more mileage out of their abilities, but a Rebel player in this tier has gotten better by leaps and bounds as they understand more of the game and how their elements fit in it.

-At the high range of skill, Rebels seem to have narrow, but actually quite consistent, advantage due to a higher skill ceiling and that greater complexity that was a problem at low tiers becomes an advantage at higher tiers where it allows better flexibility and power for players able to effectively utilize it, unlike Empire that plateaus in terms of what you can get out of the army somewhat lower.

My experience so far hasn't been that Rebels have any real disadvantage, but a lot of players do like to just line up and shoot each other like it's a Napoleonics game and Rebels are pretty bad at that, so it's possible that's at least some of the source.

Grain of Salt and all that

11 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Against corp unit they will mop them up. Against special forces and named units they will have much more difficulty with their low, but consistent, damage output and weakness to pierce.

Sounds kinda like how they were portrayed in Rogue One.

So... secret thematic win by FFG?

I didnt say that the Imperials were a lot better, but that they were better in nearly every respect/unit. Skill is nearly everything in a game like this or a lot of FFG's games. Luck also has a place. FFG has created a lot od the bias themselves in their release schedule. It's too easy to make side by side comparisons. Boba is easier and more useful in every respect than Chewie. The emperor is the most dangerous of all the commanders and has the best command cards. The new imperial command cards released with the personnel packs are better, more compatible, and have less limitation than the rebel ones. The personnel figurrs have better use or a better value for their points than the rebel counterparts. The sniper/mine weapons have better keywords and abilities tham the rebel counterparts. Stormtroopers are more survivable and thus more dangerous in a 6 turn game than the rebels and have the best value heavy weapon on the entire game. All units receive the same benefit from cover.

Commandos can equal Deathtroopers in range 3 damage so you got me there. Rotary too, even though i was thinking of troopers.

There's really not that much ranged pierce in the game. Snipers and characters is all there is that i know of.

1 minute ago, buckero0 said:

There's really not that much ranged pierce in the game. Snipers and characters is all there is that i know of.

Fleet trooper scatter guns would like a word.