So... Reading through Emerald Empire a little I had a few questions,

Characters start with a small amount of money,

But it is clear from the setting that most samurai should not be concerned with accruing wealth, and have plenty of interesting motivations for pursuing plots (honour, glory, etc), so it isn't quite clear how samurai acquire wealth after the start of the game?

Given the setting I would assume that most samurai would receive the equivalent of a stipend from their family, clan and/or parent organization (magistrates or whatever), but there isn't really any indication of how much this would be?

Loot & treasure isn't really a focus of the game (and how many koku would you expect an oni to carry! Besides, games set in court may never give this opportunity)

Admittedly most samurai should have fairly modest financial requirements - their lord will provide much of what they need and you can demand bed & board at pretty much any village providing you don't piss off the local lord, but still, there will be things that do require money (that fancy court outfit, staying at an inn, the services of a geisha, etc)

Honestly I'm kind of surprised FFG didn't go with an abstract money system (rating characters as poor/average/wealthy/rich or whatever) in order to avoid this as it is something of a throwback to D&D, and not really appropriate for the setting. Indeed, I may use something like this with my players.

Any thoughts or advice?

I think it's perfectly fine. Unlike D&D, where equipment and access to magic and special items is explicitly part of game balance, L5R doesn't have "throw money at it" as a standard problem solving approach. As the GM, all I consider when it comes to my players' characters' funds is "is there a reason they should not have this?" and unless there is, they are just assumed to have the money to get what they want.

Is the adventure going to be worse if the courtier gets some new threads to look his best? If not, why not allow it?

Is there a reason you don't want the PCs to be able to stay at an inn? If not, why would you tell them they can't pay for it?

Is spending time and money at a geisha house bad for the plot? If not, why not let the samurai take the load off and enjoy his evening with some paid-for company?

It wouldn't be that hard to come up with a houserule (status rank times X koku per year stipend or something), but I don't really see the point. I don't think the game benefits from having the players balance their budget.

As an aside, with the whole stigma on engaging in commerce for Rokugani samurai financial transactions are kind of fuzzy anyways, and with the way the economy works (each clan issueing their own koku more or less independently from one another) prices are in flux all the time to begin with. Items might vary in cost from one province to the next and certainly from one season to the next. Samurai often just pay what they want (and consider it a reward of sorts for the vendor, rather than payment), which can mean paying much more or much less than the nominal value.

Other than as a means to make something interesting happen, I don't see much value in concerning myself with wealth in L5R.

I *generally* agree with Nameless Ronin. Acquiring vast or even modest amounts of wealth is not usually a focus of the game (and really would be better measured in land than in coins). For many campaigns I also think you can mostly hand wave away modest money concerns. It is entirely within the setting to say PCs have what they need to look respectable doing their job and have enough for a generous dollop of saki on the side. I don't know that PCs should just automatically requisition something like lacquered armor from their Lord (in fact I wouldn't them...) BUT PCs who drop hints that there is an *expensive something* that they want should eventually get it for delivering good service. Or have the chance to claim it as booty from a major skirmish.

It should probably go without saying that context makes a world of difference with making & receiving requests. Uh Lord...can i get a 2 handed hammer? Before i serve on the Wall? Yeah that sounds reasonable to me! But...before I go as your courtier to the monastery of the 7 Thunders? Probably not. (...why would you need that Samurai-san?!?)

This kind of gets to Gareth's question about just assigning a "wealth factor" to PC samurai. You could certainly do that. The Hida don't have a lot of ready cash. The Yasuki effectively roll in it...everyone should have enough to get by. But the Yasuki probably has a nicer kit and never needs to pinch pennies. Maybe the Hida sometimes does...

The one part I might disagree with Nameless Ronin is where you want to use money as a part of the campaign/story. So much of L5R is about the daylight between two conflicting forces. A campaign that takes a hard look at corruption (or that takes place against a trade war, or famine, or with a group of Ronin) *could* use PC's financial stress as a great issue for the PC samurai to wrestle with.

What gifts can I take? How much am I willing to dirty my hands with base commerce? When can I do a side job for a merchant knowing *wink wink* that I'll probably have coins at the end? Will I engage in banditry against a rival Clan during war? Or even random travelers and villagers? In such a situation how much the PCs take in per year depends a lot on how you want to set up the campaign. Ronin? No set income. Hard times?...Maybe only half their starting weather per year...and NPCs constantly try to nickel and dime them as much as they think they can (without provoking a violent response...). In these situation its up to you to provide additional resources to PCs. An Oni doesn't have coins on him. But the ronin who attack the PCs might. PCs at court can potentially expect gifts (which could be sold) or outright bribes. (But probably have to shell the same out...)

I do agree absolutely that you should only sweat money as a means to make interesting things happen.

I think money in L5R is like Glory, so you just kinda get some when it is convenient, and lose some when you are up to that. It comes and goes depending on the plot and the situation. For extreme cases you have Famously Wealthy and Whispers of Poverty.

In fairness, if the authors are treating money in such abstract terms for the acquisition of wealth (the true objective of the game being glory and honor rather than being wealth driven) what is the point of providing costs for weapons and armor in the first place? I personally use listed prices as a guide to help me appreciate the real world equivalent, not as a standard for regular commerce in the game (even if that is what it is meant to be). Otherwise, prices are for incidental things samurai might want outside that which is standard issue.

Sure, in my game samurai get stipends sent to their estates from their lords (the amount of which is known to those who handle money). Anything they need directly related to their service is otherwise provided.

11 minutes ago, T_Kageyasu said:

In fairness, if the authors are treating money in such abstract terms for the acquisition of wealth (the true objective of the game being glory and honor rather than being wealth driven) what is the point of providing costs for weapons and armor in the first place? I personally use listed prices as a guide to help me appreciate the real world equivalent, not as a standard for regular commerce in the game (even if that is what it is meant to be). Otherwise, prices are for incidental things samurai might want outside that which is standard issue.

Sure, in my game samurai get stipends sent to their estates from their lords (the amount of which is known to those who handle money). Anything they need directly related to their service is otherwise provided.

Because some Samurai, like Ide and Yasuki, might find that interesting. It provides general guidelines which is enough for me.

The following tread, after the first few posts regarding multiple questions, turns out almost exclusively about wealth, money, economy etc. It has a lot of different ideas, approaches and discussions that you will certainly find useful, if only as inspiration for how you will chose to play it at your own table.

11 hours ago, Void Crane said:

The one part I might disagree with Nameless Ronin is where you want to use money as a part of the campaign/story. So much of L5R is about the daylight between two conflicting forces. A campaign that takes a hard look at corruption (or that takes place against a trade war, or famine, or with a group of Ronin) *could* use PC's financial stress as a great issue for the PC samurai to wrestle with.

Absolutely. That would be making things interesting. The City of Lies module from 1st edition is a perfect example: corruption and bribery are everywhere and even if the PCs want to keep everything on the up-and-up, they're likely to need to secure the services of one or more organisations in Ryoko Owari just to be able to stand up against being strongarmed and that takes more money than can easily be justified as a family stipend or funding from the magistrates' office. City of Lies is designed to force the PCs to make choices of honor and practicality, and money plays a big part in that. The module has information about how hand gifts work (which gives you another roleplay hook, which always makes me happy), it lists costs for goods (including illegal ones), it allows the PCs to try and muscle in on the opium trade for fun and profit, and so on - all of which is fantastic. My point though is that that is all quite campaign-specific. I don't think it's really feasible to provide official rules for this in a more general sourcebook, at least not without giving the wrong impression (all those things that make City of Lies awesome are unlikely to fly in 99% of the rest of Rokugan) or having to do a ton of explaining. It's very interesting material for a more specialized sourcebook though, or like in the case of City of Lies for a big fat campaign book.

15 hours ago, gareth_lazelle said:

Loot & treasure isn't really a focus of the game (and how many koku would you expect an oni to carry! Besides, games set in court may never give this opportunity)

An Oni has as many koku as were carried by the collective samurai he's eaten, clearly.

8 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

An Oni has as many koku as were carried by the collective samurai he's eaten, clearly.

LOL!

Player in the Shadowlands: I cut open the dead Oni and rummage around inside it, up to my elbows, going through all the jiggly bits twice.

GM: WHAT?!?

Player: I heard Hida-san say very clearly just the other day that Oni have koku in their bellies from all the samurai they have eaten!

So now we really know how the Hida are able to continuously recruit "samurai" to their cause. Twenty Goblin Winter my foot, it's more like one oni and whomever survives gets to vacay on the Islands of Spice and Silk!