I'm really surprised that the new points list not only strips away ALL crew member options for the TIE Phantom but also gives the TIE Phantom access to just one gunner option: Fifth Brother. That's it. No other gunner does anything on the TIE Phantom. And as far as I'm aware, there's nothing on the horizon that is going to change that.

4 minutes ago, Wh0isTh3D0ct0r said:

I'm really surprised that the new points list not only strips away ALL crew member options for the TIE Phantom but also gives the TIE Phantom access to just one gunner option: Fifth Brother. That's it. No other gunner does anything on the TIE Phantom. And as far as I'm aware, there's nothing on the horizon that is going to change that.

Would you prefer not adding a Gunner slot so that Fifth Brother isn't even an option?

Pretty sure FFG just didn't want the hassel of having to balance a hard to kill arc-dodger, that is also a platform for powerful imperial support crew or Vader. I think it is a good change. Alternatively they would have had to raise the cost of the phantom drastically. Yes, it is hurting for options right now, but that can change in the future.

BT-1 fits if you have Vader in your list, but otherwise, yeah, its very slim pickings at the moment with 1 or maybe 2 unique gunner choices. I'm certain that there will be more generic gunners added soon that could be used with it, as there is a lot of design space open there.

They should have just changed Vader to Medium or Large ship only, honestly, but they won't because it's a printed change. But like that the phantom would have retained acces to Informant, Agent Kallus, Krennic, Perceptive Copilot, etc. Which we're all good choice. Now there's no way to make the phantom a support ship, it's flanker / arc dodger, and that's it. Kinda sad really.

Tie strikers got a gunner slot without much options, either. Nevertheless I really like it the way it is now. Fifth Brother is a cheap Force User which boosts your offense/defense quite a bit. After all the games I played, I found that Force users are great, especially at this price point.

1 minute ago, DarthSempai said:

They should have just changed Vader to Medium or Large ship only, honestly, but they won't because it's a printed change. But like that the phantom would have retained acces to Informant, Agent Kallus, Krennic, Perceptive Copilot, etc. Which we're all good choice. Now there's no way to make the phantom a support ship, it's flanker / arc dodger, and that's it. Kinda sad really.

This change also, importantly, keeps out Sloane, not just Vader.

Personally I always thought it was odd that Phantoms had a Crew slot instead of Gunners. In my mind if the crew member can’t get up and walk around the cockpit then it shouldn’t be a crew slot.

Yeah, a generic Gunner option that either adds utility (like Scum Han) or some form of offensive advantage out the front arc feels needed. While the Phantom is the obvious benefactor, I think ships like the Arc and Firespray could benefit as well. Though out of flavor for the slot, Strikers could also get a nice boost from it.

7 minutes ago, Ryuneke said:

Tie strikers got a gunner slot without much options, either. Nevertheless I really like it the way it is now. Fifth Brother is a cheap Force User which boosts your offense/defense quite a bit. After all the games I played, I found that Force users are great, especially at this price point.

TIE Striker got the Gunner slot just for Skilled Bombardier, just like the TIE Bomber.

It is also theoretically possible that they release more gunners in the future....

But the Phantom doesn't need a crew to be good.

8 minutes ago, mcgreag said:

TIE Striker got the Gunner slot just for Skilled Bombardier, just like the TIE Bomber.

Although with Fifth Brother dropping in points, it is tempting to use him more often for the force token on Sabaac (53 pts total) to keep damage off him or free up your action. But yeah, with the addition of the bomb slot, the gunner slot there was primarily for the bombs.

20 minutes ago, DarthSempai said:

it's flanker / arc dodger, and that's it. Kinda sad really.

Which fits its fluff exactly, doesn't it?

Imperials aren't supposed to be the best, just really good when one practices the h*ll out of just one or two available and playable lists. You can call it Rebel Bias like the old days (actually Resistance is the new Rebels they focus on now), but that's just a joke from the past. The reality is that this bias is baked into the core of the design process... early Whisper 1.0 and now 2.0 was a nod and a wink to keep the secret questionable by the average. Redline was a great bone to throw too as the 1.0 was such a joke; but worry not, they're being pull that back into mediocrity too.

...this salt or sarcasm?

Yep, it sucks that my triple Phantom list with Krennic, Kallus and Informant no longer is an option. There will be other gunners that come out though. Fifth Brother on one Phantom is still better than nothing, and Fifth Brother had a price drop too and has a decent ability and gives what is essentially a free Calculate every turn but is Purple so is not subject to Jam and doesn't require an action to get. Also, with the loss of crew now I can look into Systems upgrades that I normally never took. My triple Phantom list will be different but still fun as heck I think.

Rebels have no sympathy for you Imperial dogs. The ARC-170 only has one gunner option and it's awful. Count your lucky stars Fifth Brother and BT-1 are both decent options.

34 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

But the Phantom doesn't need a crew to be good.

Needs moar emphasis.

18 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Imperials aren't supposed to be the best, just really good when one practices the h*ll out of just one or two available and playable lists. You can call it Rebel Bias like the old days (actually Resistance is the new Rebels they focus on now), but that's just a joke from the past. The reality is that this bias is baked into the core of the design process... early Whisper 1.0 and now 2.0 was a nod and a wink to keep the secret questionable by the average. Redline was a great bone to throw too as the 1.0 was such a joke; but worry not, they'll pull that back into mediocrity too.

Aces of Legend (what Philip Booth won Phoenix with) can be recreated with a 13pt bid (of course, this results in no Vader and removing Advanced Sensors for the points). That still commands a lot of respect. Not to mention that 3 Juke Sigmas + 1 Crack Sigma is both terrifying and legal. In the meantime, Palob, tugs, Han gunner, Boba, Pro Torps, etc. all get a price hike. I was excited for Empire in the first wave of points. Now I am frothing at the mouth with vindictive excitement.

41 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Personally I always thought it was odd that Phantoms had a Crew slot instead of Gunners. In my mind if the crew member can’t get up and walk around the cockpit then it shouldn’t be a crew slot.

Remove crew from ARC and HWK then?

26 minutes ago, SoontirFel said:

Which fits its fluff exactly, doesn't it?

yes it does.... I just like janky phantom build

1 minute ago, HolySorcerer said:

Remove crew from ARC and HWK then?

ARC-170 has crew and gunner.

Hwk is supposed to be a transport ship too.

1 minute ago, MegaSilver said:

ARC-170 has crew and gunner.

Hwk is supposed to be a transport ship too.

Whomever labled the HWK as a transport is an idiot. It's a two seater heavy fighter/recon craft. The Phantom has a larger cockpit.

5 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Whomever labled the HWK as a transport is an idiot. It's a two seater heavy fighter/recon craft. The Phantom has a larger cockpit.

I'd rather have a balanced game then worry about whether the things in the game matches the fluff to the letter.

People seem to be forgetting that we have 2 whole new factions (and therefore new cards) coming soon, plus general new releases.

It could be that apart from Vader, we also have some new generic crew cards coming that FFG don't want on the Phantom. And we could have new Gunner cards coming that would work well on it.

I genuinely feel like this is the wrong focus. Imperials have some really cool crew and very few places to put them. Phantoms are a bad place for that, I want a small base 35 point crew carrier, not a 40+ point arc dodging front line fighter.