With the massive point decreases for the VCX-100 and the YT-1300, I figured FFG had come to the same conclusion as the rest of us: the Rebels' large base ships cost too much to merit using in the competitive format, and said points are better used on smaller, cheaper ships that can be fielded in multiples, giving more health and guns overall.

But with the rise of the Han Gunner/Roark combo, Dash was beginning to see not only more usage, but even success in competitive play. It wasn't a list I myself used, but I could justify leaving Dash at his existing price if the list continued to see success, even if that would basically become his one de facto list.

But now FFG has revised their previous ruling and the interaction no longer works, AND both Roark and the Moldy Crow turtle have seen a massive price increase. Dash, (and Leebo, now that he's lost his crew slot) have basically lost all viability as a weapons platform, and bring no real benefit over smaller ships for equal price.

As an example, Dash with Trick Shot and the Outrider title (what I consider his bare minimum, must-have upgrades) costs 114 points. That's over half your list for a ship with ten health, and one 4-dice gun.

For the same amount, you can run Wedge with Outmaneuver & R3 and Thane with Lone Wolf, equaling twelve health and 2 three-dice guns, with equal or better initiative.

Is the balance team in charge of points different from the team who write errata? Was there a breakdown of communication in this case?

Could I at least fly Dash/Corran again someday, and still hope to win?

Dang it. It totally slipped past me that the Leebo’s crew slot got axed. I was looking forward to trying out Leebo with 3P0 with the reduced point values.

Leebo's crew slot has to be an error, like the error on the Trandoshian Slaver.

Yeah, my favorite list so far in 2.0 was Luke(R2-D2)/Leebo(C-3PO). It could be very solid defensively, but still not THAT strong/reliable. Just a fun list. Leebo + C-3PO wasn't winning competitively and, even without considering the competitive field, it wasn't prevalent at all. So why nerf it?

7 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Leebo's crew slot has to be an error, like the error on the Trandoshian Slaver.

Seems unlikely since he was the only 2400 that lost a crew, it feels very targeted at him.

But I agree, the 2400 feels like it is worse off than it was before the change. But a lot of people I've talked to about it are still butt hurt about the ship in 1.0 so it seems 2400 fans won't get much sympathy from the larger community.

Rotating dual arc 4 red primary behind 2 green base with 10 hp barrel roll and a nimble dial for a large base. Leebo is the Calc token equiv of Luke pilot. Dash is still Dash. The Fringer still has its crew. I see why it is in the price range it is. Is it still too exspensive? Maybe by a couple of points.

33 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Seems unlikely since he was the only 2400 that lost a crew, it feels very targeted at him.

But I agree, the 2400 feels like it is worse off than it was before the change. But a lot of people I've talked to about it are still butt hurt about the ship in 1.0 so it seems 2400 fans won't get much sympathy from the larger community.

Between that and people who couldn't handle Double-Tap Dash, I agree.

13 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Rotating dual arc 4 red primary behind 2 green base with 10 hp barrel roll and a nimble dial for a large base. Leebo is the Calc token equiv of Luke pilot. Dash is still Dash. The Fringer still has its crew. I see why it is in the price range it is. Is it still too exspensive? Maybe by a couple of points.

And agree that it is a good ship, but like I said in my opening post, there's just not enough to warrant flying it when you can just take a couple of X-wings. I could see Dash easily getting dropped to 90-94 points, and the title to 7-10. Puts it in the range of 1.0 when it cost between 52-58 (and that was fully loaded with illicits, crew, and Lone Wolf.)

8 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Rotating dual arc 4 red primary behind 2 green base with 10 hp barrel roll and a nimble dial for a large base. Leebo is the Calc token equiv of Luke pilot. Dash is still Dash. The Fringer still has its crew. I see why it is in the price range it is. Is it still too exspensive? Maybe by a couple of points.

Calculate sucks when you need to modify 4 attack dice. That's what people are forgetting. You can't compare him to Luke who has 2 force to modify 3 attack dice and without having to spend an action.

Put the YT2400 on the shelf till July, too many better options now

The large ships that haven’t seen a lot of play, ships that are getting table time but are overpriced are getting gradual price drops.

Look at Scum Han gunner, saw a lot of play, tripled in price. Moldy Crow, increased by 50%. FFG hopefully won’t be doing cost changes every 2-3 months and let people settle on some lists.

13 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

FFG hopefully won’t be doing cost changes every 2-3 months

Next one is scheduled for July per the article with a current plan of every 6 months.

I think part of the cost is still in the 4 Dice attack. They admitted in the Article they priced large base stuff conservatively. I have a feeling they are still being a bit leery of what a 4 dice attack ship can do with crew, Gunners, the Title, and Dash’s ability. I think once they see how it performs on it’s own without the obvious combination with Gunner Han and Roark, they can make a more informed adjustment.

I don't know. I was planning on bringing Rebel Han to the Hyperspace Qualifier in a couple of months. He's been working just fine for me. And that's BEFORE he dropped ten points.

Now I feel like it's no longer the cool hipster choice and I'm less enthused! I guess I could throw Luke Gunner back on and feel "non-viable" again while winning consistently...

Han is really good.

13 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

With the massive point decreases for the VCX-100 and the YT-1300, I figured FFG had come to the same conclusion as the rest of us: the Rebels' large base ships cost too much to merit using in the competitive format, and said points are better used on smaller, cheaper ships that can be fielded in multiples, giving more health and guns overall.

Don’t blow the point decreases out of proportion, I only really know the ghosts’ price differences but they are really small.

Kanan did have a big change was 90, down to 84.

the others weren’t that dramatic. kanan was overpriced bc he had force.

Hera went from 76 to 73

Lothal rebel went from 70 to 68

now that thats out of the way, Dash does need some love. The problem is ffg is afraid to buff anything that sees some play, and the faq to the double tap combo came too late for Dash to prove he needed a buff.

30 minutes ago, SCSkunk said:

Now I feel like it's no longer the cool hipster choice and I'm  les  s enthused  

19 hours ago, Tvboy said:

But a lot of people I've talked to about it are still butt hurt about the ship in 1.0 so it seems 2400 fans won't get much sympathy from the larger community

I'd be one not to look to for sympathy. I never enjoyed flying against that thing. It was easy mode for the player playing it. Eventually I didn't hate flying against it but I can't say it breaks my heart I haven't seen it since 2nd Ed started.

22 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

With the massive point decreases for the VCX-100 and the YT-1300, I figured FFG had come to the same conclusion as the rest of us: the Rebels' large base ships cost too much to merit using in the competitive format, and said points are better used on smaller, cheaper ships that can be fielded in multiples, giving more health and guns overall.

But with the rise of the Han Gunner/Roark combo, Dash was beginning to see not only more usage, but even success in competitive play. It wasn't a list I myself used, but I could justify leaving Dash at his existing price if the list continued to see success, even if that would basically become his one de facto list.

But now FFG has revised their previous ruling and the interaction no longer works, AND both Roark and the Moldy Crow turtle have seen a massive price increase. Dash, (and Leebo, now that he's lost his crew slot) have basically lost all viability as a weapons platform, and bring no real benefit over smaller ships for equal price.

As an example, Dash with Trick Shot and the Outrider title (what I consider his bare minimum, must-have upgrades) costs 114 points. That's over half your list for a ship with ten health, and one 4-dice gun.

For the same amount, you can run Wedge with Outmaneuver & R3 and Thane with Lone Wolf, equaling twelve health and 2 three-dice guns, with equal or better initiative.

Is the balance team in charge of points different from the team who write errata? Was there a breakdown of communication in this case?

Could I at least fly Dash/Corran again someday, and still hope to win?

When you take Bistan instead of title you have two 4-dice attacks for the same cost.

8 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

Don’t blow the point decreases out of proportion, I only really know the ghosts’ price differences but they are really small.

Kanan did have a big change was 90, down to 84.

the others weren’t that dramatic. kanan was overpriced bc he had force.

Hera went from 76 to 73

Lothal rebel went from 70 to 68

now that thats out of the way, Dash does need some love. The problem is ffg is afraid to buff anything that sees some play, and the faq to the double tap combo came too late for Dash to prove he needed a buff.

All of the Rebel YT-1300 pilots have seen a reduction of 9-12 points. I don't think I'm blowing anything out of proportion.

1 hour ago, Boreas Mun said:

When you take Bistan instead of title you have two 4-dice attacks for the same cost.

Against a different target, IF you still have focus. And as I said, I feel like the title is a must-have upgrade. It just has too much synergy with Dash's ability.

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

I'd be one not to look to for sympathy. I never enjoyed flying against that thing. It was easy mode for the player playing it. Eventually I didn't hate flying against it but I can't say it breaks my heart I haven't seen it since 2nd Ed started.

Clearly you never actually tried flying it yourself. I won't say it wasn't powerful, but If you didn't know what you were doing with it, swarms could block it fairly easily, and aces could stay in its donut hole with little difficulty.

But that's all pretty moot considering the fact we're talking about SECOND EDITION prices here.

30 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

All of the Rebel YT-1300 pilots have seen a reduction of 9-12 points.

Maybe FFG just thought the YT-1300s were more overcosted than the YT-2400.

26 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

But that's all pretty moot considering the fact we're talking about SECOND EDITION prices here.

I don't think he was saying the prices should be based on 1E performance; just 1E is the reason he's sick of seeing them. Personally, I can sympathize with that, as this ship was one of the primary reasons I never really got to enjoy first edition all that much. Even if it were completely balanced and fairly priced, I'd still be just as happy to never see it in play again, just because of all the bad memories it brings up.

Have you guys seem the cost comparison of the YT-1300 vs YT-2400? Rebel han is WAY cheaper than Leebo for example and is just better.

22 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Leebo's crew slot has to be an error, like the error on the Trandoshian Slaver.

But the app confirmed the trandosian error, but also confirms the Leebo crew ax

10 hours ago, SCSkunk said:

I don't know. I was planning on bringing Rebel Han to the Hyperspace Qualifier in a couple of months. He's been working just fine for me. And that's BEFORE he dropped ten points.

Now I feel like it's no longer the cool hipster choice and I'm less enthused! I guess I could throw Luke Gunner back on and feel "non-viable" again while winning consistently...

Han is really good.

What do you pair him with in Hyperspace?

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

I don't think he was saying the prices should be based on 1E performance; just 1E is the reason he's sick of seeing them. Personally, I can sympathize with that, as this ship was one of the primary reasons I never really got to enjoy first edition all that much. Even if it were completely balanced and fairly priced, I'd still be just as happy to never see it in play again, just because of all the bad memories it brings up.

11 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

What do you pair him with in Hyperspace?

I was using Han with Homing Missiles/R2-D2/Lando/Vet Turret Gunner and Wedge with Elusive/ProTorps/R5/Shield Upgrade/S-Foils

Two i6 with nine point bid. I was really only having trouble against very high health lists.

Now it's back to the drawing board, lol!