Hello

Is there a specific rule, that forbids using yt-1300 from heroes of the resistance in the rebel facion and vice versa? I know, that similar discussions were made already, but i cant find reasonable rule, that strictly forbids that.

Hereoes of the resistance was rebel faction expansion with ship named yt-1300. Old falcon was rebel expansion with ship named yt-1300. So, to me, models are exactly the same (i know about the radar stuff). There is also no 2.0 expansion with either of those falcons, so whats the exact rule, that makes one of those rebel, and second one resistance? I know, you can accept that one of those got "resistance 1.0" pilots in it, but i dont rly think that its a factor, if you consider it as a "rule".

Im not trying to proove, that you can use both of those models in both factions, i can accept it either way, i want to know why i can or cant, or why my oponents can or cannot do that, and which RULE forbids that.

I was under the impression that there is no such rule. You can modify or paint a ship and still fly it as long as it remains recognizable. Also, your opponent is being a massive D-hole if they are trying to argue that you can't.

In 1e, no. They're all the same ship, with the same name, so the models are interchangeable.

In 2e, technically, yes. Models are only interchangeable between ships of the same name, and the ships do not have the same name, one is Customised, one is Modified, and one is Scavenged.

But as noted above, your opponent is being a massive jerk if they enforce this rule, especially given that they are all from different factions now.

But in a tournament, you might want to be aware that it IS a rule.

29 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

In 2e, technically, yes. Models are only interchangeable between ships of the same name, and the ships do not have the same name, one is Customised, one is Modified, and one is Scavenged.

Even though they are all literally the same ship (YT-1300 492727ZED aka The Millennium Falcon). I would always be sure to check with the Tournament Organizer (TO) beforehand if you are planning on substituting one of the models for another. The letter of the rules does not allow you to use the Scavenged YT-1300 in place of the Modified YT-1300 and while some TO's may make an exception for that ship, another TO may enforce that rule as strictly as any other rule.

They are not all the same ship by the rules of x wing.

i got the idea, that the 2.0 falcons are diferent ships, got that. But how can you tell, which 1.0 falcon MODEL (plastic ship) is which? I know, that i can assume that older is rebel and newer is resistance, but which rule or something say so?

The new one has a rectangular satellite dish instead of the old circular one. Also the new falcon has the engine grill while the old one just had a smooth surface there, but the satellite dish is the most obvious update. The differences are not very significant between the Modified YT-1300 and the Scavenged YT-1300.

im not talking about where are differences in models. My question is, why we assume that rectangular satellite is resistance, and circular is rebel. I know, one got rey as a pilot card (resistance 2.0, rebel 1.0) while second one got lando (rebel 2.0 and 1.0) but the ships themself are both rebel YT-1300 when you buy 1.0 box with either one. If there is a rule, that ship name have match, i got that, but which rule says that one falcon is faction one, while second falcon is faction two? I dont care if i can use it or not, i just want to know whats the reason behind that, rules are rules

First off, thank you everyone for sticking with a discussion of the letter of the law, all while acknowledging the much more relaxed spirit of the law. I can't imagine someone being so uptight that they would call a judge over an "illegal model YT-1300," but it's never bad to really look into the explicit, technical details of the situation.

For the three YT-1300 models currently available, one is clearly designed for one faction: The Scum Falcon has never been called anything other than a Customized YT-1300 . It's the Rebel and Resistance models that fall into a little bit of a gray area. Neither has been re-released in Second Edition yet, so neither has a truly defined model to go by, aside from their previously-assigned factions. However, many ships changed names... and the YT-1300 is no different. Using the releases of the various ships and the factions they exist within, you can get a reasonable definition of which is which. The Rebel Falcon, which we know now as the Modified YT-1300 , was released with a Classic Trilogy-accurate round radar dish. The Resistance Falcon, released alongside Poe's T-70, is now called the Salvaged YT-1300 , and has an era-appropriate rectangular radar dish.

Technically , then, you need to use a Round Dish YT-1300 in Rebel Squads, and a Rectangle Dish YT-1300 in Resistance ones. From an official standpoint, no mixing and matching is permitted, if you're trying to fly more than one of them at a time (including 4x Scum Falcons. Yes, it's possible).

Seriously, though, this is an argument that I find patently ridiculous. Fly Casual, bros.

This doesn't apply to dials, since the dials are different. But models? No reasonable TO will prevent a player from using YT-1300 models interchangeably.

This is not a rules interpretation--it is a pronouncement of judgment on TOs.

//

To note: the ship names and dials of Rebel and Republic ARC 170 are the same, and without a doubt those can be used interchangeably.

Officially, this is the test: are the "ship names" the same? Are the dials the same?

From previews, the ARC-170 in both Rebel and Republic have the same dial and ship name. Rebel and Galactic Empire TIE Fighters share the same dial and ship name (TIE/ln Fighter). However, the Mining Guild TIE in Scum has a different dial and ship name: Modified TIE/ln Fighter. It cannot be used interchangeably. All three YT-1300 have slightly different dials, and all three have slightly different names. Customized, Modified, and Scavenged.

But.

Most folks haven't bought two copies of Heroes of the Resistance. A few more folks probably bought two of the original Millennium Falcon expansion in the early days of 1e, but many probably didn't. And the models are nearly the same, so any reasonable TO is going to say "yeah, fine."

9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Rebel and Galactic Empire TIE Fighters share the same dial and ship name (TIE/ln Fighter).

Now I want to borrow a ton of Sabine's TIE Fighters, to fly my Imperial TIE Swarm, just to infuriate my opponents.

8 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Now I want to borrow a ton of Sabine's TIE Fighters, to fly my Imperial TIE Swarm, just to infuriate my opponents.

Using the red Rebel cardboard dials in the Scum dial kits.

and what about this: All ship cards and ship bases in a player’s squad must belong to the same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, the player may use any version of the miniature and dial that match the full ship name when assembling a squad (tournament regulations)

"Finally, this conversion kit gives you plenty of options for rounding out your Resistance squadrons, containing enough maneuver dials to convert three Resistance Bombers, three YT-1300s, and four T-70 X-wing fighters"

so, 1.0 ships got the same names, 1.0 into 2.0 kits converts YT-1300 for both factions.

I got the idea, that TO might judge it either way, im trying to find a way to define answer that is rules based

@tibipl is right on the money.

"Multiple Faction Ships

All ship cards and ship bases in a player’s squad must belong to the same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, the player may use any version of the miniature and dial that match the full ship name when assembling a squad. All dials must be from Second Edition. Plastic dial backs from the premium maneuver dial kit may be used.

Multiple Ship Example: Scott is fielding a Scum & Villainy squad that has two BTL-A4 Y-wings. One of his BTL-A4 Y-wing miniatures and one of his BTL-A4 Y-wing dials is from the Second Edition BTL-A4 Y-wing expansion. The other BTL-A4 Y-wing miniature is from the First Edition Most Wanted expansion, and the other dial is from the Second Edition Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit. However, all of his ship cards and ship bases are from the Scum & Villainy faction."

from tournament rules page four. if a TO would have any problems with you using the wrong falcon, i wouldn't consider that tournament worth your effort anyway. as long as non essential components are appropriate and their purpose is clear, i don't want to hear any ******* from anyone about how someone elses third party tokens or modified ships are not legal.

i don't even want to hear any complaints about someone using a custom yt-1300 in place of a salvaged yt-1300 (yes, i know it would hurt your brain to see it - and that's why i would allow it). it's the millenium falcon. doesn't have to be clearer than that. it's just cosmetics. it has no impact. don't you go shaving your bases down on my watch, though!

Do a post ROTJ mod on either Falcon (or both) and break off the satellite dish. Who's to say which falcon it is at that point. 😁

1 hour ago, meffo said:

@tibipl is right on the money.

"Multiple Faction Ships

All ship cards and ship bases in a player’s squad must belong to the same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, the player may use any version of the miniature and dial that match the full ship name when assembling a squad. All dials must be from Second Edition. Plastic dial backs from the premium maneuver dial kit may be used.

Multiple Ship Example: Scott is fielding a Scum & Villainy squad that has two BTL-A4 Y-wings. One of his BTL-A4 Y-wing miniatures and one of his BTL-A4 Y-wing dials is from the Second Edition BTL-A4 Y-wing expansion. The other BTL-A4 Y-wing miniature is from the First Edition Most Wanted expansion, and the other dial is from the Second Edition Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit. However, all of his ship cards and ship bases are from the Scum & Villainy faction."

from tournament rules page four. if a TO would have any problems with you using the wrong falcon, i wouldn't consider that tournament worth your effort anyway. as long as non essential components are appropriate and their purpose is clear, i don't want to hear any ******* from anyone about how someone elses third party tokens or modified ships are not legal.

i don't even want to hear any complaints about someone using a custom yt-1300 in place of a salvaged yt-1300 (yes, i know it would hurt your brain to see it - and that's why i would allow it). it's the millenium falcon. doesn't have to be clearer than that. it's just cosmetics. it has no impact. don't you go shaving your bases down on my watch, though!

The thing is, the rule doesn't apply, because there isn't a multi-faction YT-1300 .

There is a Scum "Customized YT-1300" with a statline of 2/1/8/3, a Rebel "Modified YT-1300" with a statline of 3/1/8/5, and a Resistance "Salvaged YT-1300" with a statline of 3/1/8/3. As far as the game is concerned, they are not the same ship. There are three different single-faction ships which are really similar looking pancakes. Rebel/Scum Y-Wings, Rebel/Imperial TIE Fighters, Rebel/Republic ARC 170--these are actually the same ships.

The relevant rule is SHIP TYPE (RR, p.17)

Each ship has a ship type that is identified by the name of the type of ship listed on the bottom of its ship cards.

• Each ship must use the dial that matches their ship type.

• Some upgrade cards have ship restrictions that refer to ship type.

Now, I've been clear. Anyone who doesn't allow the Millennium Falcon models to be used interchangeably is a ****. But these are the rules, and I suppose it's useful to know them in a technical sense.

I was thinking of getting a dish from the salvaged Falcon, magnetise it, and magnetise the original falcon with dish. Swop out when needed.

**** nor high frakking water is gonna' stop me from using best falcon for the resistance.

Yes, that is the scum falcon.

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

The thing is, the rule doesn't apply, becaus  e there isn't a multi-faction YT-1300 .

There is also no 2.0 YT-1300 model. So I agree with @tibipl : any YT-1300 model is an undefined model, that can be converted to any specific 2.0 ship (customized, modified or scavenged).

You get the cards and tokens, you then attach a thing that was called a YT-1300 model in 1.0 and call it whatever you want

3 hours ago, NilsTillander said:

There is also no 2.0 YT-1300 model. So I agree with @tibipl : any YT-1300 model is an undefined model, that can be converted to any specific 2.0 ship (customized, modified or scavenged).

You get the cards and tokens, you then attach a thing that was called a YT-1300 model in 1.0 and call it whatever you want

There is (only) a 2.0 Customized YT-1300: Lando's Millennium Falcon .

Or, you just splash a tiny bit of blue paint on your resistance falcon to match those wonderful RZ2's and T-70's and you're golden.

No, in fact, there is no rule that specify what old model are what. Except looking at the lore can you tell the difference between a TIE \ ln versus TIE \ fo. The model never had a clear association in rules, it is just assumed, because the model come in X or Y expansion, associated with a name. Nearly all the ship changed name in the second edition, why do you know you can use the TIE Advance Prototype with the TIE Advance v1 card. You just do it because we assume so... also the small icon on card fit...

And if the small icon is the reason to know which model go with which ship, in the case of the falcon, I doubt the angle of the ship icon really help to know which is which...

13 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

The thing is, the rule doesn't apply, because there isn't a multi-faction YT-1300 .

There is a Scum "Customized YT-1300" with a statline of 2/1/8/3, a Rebel "Modified YT-1300" with a statline of 3/1/8/5, and a Resistance "Salvaged YT-1300" with a statline of 3/1/8/3. As far as the game is concerned, they are not the same ship. There are three different single-faction ships which are really similar looking pancakes. Rebel/Scum Y-Wings, Rebel/Imperial TIE Fighters, Rebel/Republic ARC 170--these are actually the same ships.

The relevant rule is SHIP TYPE (RR, p.17)

Each ship has a ship type that is identified by the name of the type of ship listed on the bottom of its ship cards.

• Each ship must use the dial that matches their ship type.

• Some upgrade cards have ship restrictions that refer to ship type.

Now, I've been clear. Anyone who doesn't allow the Millennium Falcon models to be used interchangeably is a ****. But these are the rules, and I suppose it's useful to know them in a technical sense.

no, there isn't a multi faction yt-1300 - and it doesn't matter. the headline for the paragraph may be " Multiple Faction Ships", but that doesn't matter either. read this again please:

" If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, the player may use any version of the miniature and dial that match the full ship name when assembling a squad.  "

also note that ship models are non essential components (as they are not tools or objects, which are the only essential components) - and as such, they can look like what ever, be heavily modified or third party, as long as they're appropriate and have a clear purpose. again, read the sentence above. any version of the miniature that match the full ship name is legal. what matches what is of course highly subjective, but there are no written rules that say you have to use a certain miniature for a certain ship, as long as the miniature is appropriate and it has a clear purpose.

the part about ship type that you're quoting from the RR has nothing to do with what models are being used what so ever.

i'm glad we agree, but i still like arguing with you.

18 minutes ago, meffo said:

[...] read this again please:

" If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, the player may use any version of the miniature and dial that match the full ship name when assembling a squad.  "

I am reading it, are you? See the highlight.

The rule does not apply to the different C/M/S YT-1300s.

It is not a ship with different versions in more than one faction--they are entirely different ships in game terms. As different in rules as E-Wings and YV-666. Because the miniature and dial do not match the full ship name.

I don't know why I'm bothering. I guess the actual rules are worth knowing for, like, reasons, or something. Justice demands we ignore the rule, so that ought to be it.

13 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I am reading it, are you? See the highlight.

The rule does not apply to the different C/M/S YT-1300s.

It is not a ship with different versions in more than one faction--they are entirely different ships in game terms. As different in rules as E-Wings and YV-666. Because the miniature and dial do not match the full ship name.

I don't know why I'm bothering. I guess the actual rules are worth knowing for, like, reasons, or something. Justice demands we ignore the rule, so that ought to be it.

can't see any reference to a yt-1300 model being called modified or salvaged. they're just an yt-1300 (original) and yt-1300 (alternate). the custom one is of course the custom one, but it's still a yt-1300 and in light of the requirements put on non essential components, the model matches the full ship name. it's appropriate enough and it's purpose is clear. it's not trying to obscure anything. the rules say "any version of the miniature", right?

well, at the very least i appreciate it. this question has been raised before on a number of occasions, so it should be a good thing if we can get to the bottom of it.