“Whisper” (54)
Juke (5)
Collision Detector (6)
Fifth Brother (9)

“Echo” (50)
Juke (5)
Collision Detector (6)

Major Vermeil (49)
Darth Vader (14)

Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I played Vermeil quite often and really like the chassis and his ability because it synergises very well with Juke and Vader. I also tend to use Palp on Vermeil and give both phantoms stealth device instead of Coll.Det.

What do you think?

Good to see this fits together. Honestly, it's a little beyond me to make it work, but that is definitely a build I'd take.

Stealth might be tempting with Whisper. With Echo, if I'm taking anything past an EPT, it's Col Det 1st last and always. With that, she can just be anywhere and it takes an awful lot of resources to neutralise her. I'm maybe thinking about putting the Bro on her too, in this group. If people go for big scary Whisper, you're laughing.

Although I'm totally looking at a Ruthless/Afterburners Echo atm.

The balance I think I struggle with here, is that I kinda want to trade Vermeil 1st but he's a big target and dies too fast. (I'm aware Ruthless may not help this, lol). I might consider Feroph instead. Hope that maybe Whisper can bait and run and then so on. The longer the Reaper can cause headaches and take heat off the Phantoms the better.

Palps price drop interests me. I only tried him once and just didn't get much change out of it before the Reaper blew up. Be happier with him bunkered in a Lambda.

Also, I kinda suck at Whisper and I can fit Rex there. If not him, Kestal and APT Rhymer. So it's difficult for me to switch and practise

Love the list as presented.

10 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

that  I kinda want to trade Vermeil 1st but he's a big target and dies too fa  s  t

Correct. You have to be patient with the Reaper. Running into the opponent to fast can cause him harm especially because of the phantoms can slow roll.

Given the price adjustments, ColDet vs Afterburners is an interesting switch, too. Don't get me wrong, I've been a huge ColDet Phantom booster; I think it's great on them for giving them a lot of active options. Fly through an obstacle to get to a better position. Afterburners are pretty cool too, though. Phantoms decloaking happens before anyone moves, so having another tool to adjust position which happens after most ships have moved seems potent. Guessing wrong with a decloak can sometimes leave you in a bad place, and Afterburners can correct that in a way that ColDet can't. I think it's the kind of thing which would take a bit of on-table play, see which seems better for any given player's flying style.

The other thought would be to cut down, and put Juke on Vermiel. He's also a good ship for it, able to Evade, use Vader to strip a token, and still have dice mods from his ability.

Solid list, though. Just running through options which probably don't have to happen.

And what about that?

Darth Vader (65)
Hate (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Afterburners (6)

“Whisper” (54)
Juke (5)
Collision Detector (6)

“Echo” (50)
Elusive (3)
Collision Detector (6)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I think a solid base would be Whisper with Juke, Vermeil with Vader, and Redline with AdSen and ProTorps. Everyone is very efficient, especially as regards firing order, and target priority is really hard to manage. Leaves 12 points for bid/upgrades

17 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

I think a solid base would be Whisper with Juke, Vermeil with Vader, and Redline with AdSen and ProTorps. Everyone is very efficient, especially as regards firing order, and target priority is really hard to manage. Leaves 12 points for bid/upgrades

I only see 4 points remaining. Changing Vizer to Scarif gets us to 12, though. That what you meant?

Whoops, 4 is right

What about some blockers?

Vader
-FCS
-Afterburners

Whisper
-Juke
-Collision Detect
-5th Brother

Academy Pilot

Wampa

Total: 200

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 6:16 AM, MarcoDeGone said:

And what about that?

Darth Vader (65)
Hate (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Afterburners (6)

“Whisper” (54)
Juke (5)
Collision Detector (6)

“Echo” (50)
Elusive (3)
Collision Detector (6)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

You want to be weary putting elusive on Phantoms, typically when a Phantom pulls a red maneuver/gets stressed it is shut down until the turn AFTER it clears.

13 hours ago, Glattyator said:

You want to be weary putting elusive on Phantoms, typically when a Phantom pulls a red maneuver/gets stressed it is shut down until the turn AFTER it clears.

Agreed, and FCS on Vader is unnecessary given how easy it is to take multiple actions with him. I’d drop Elusive and FCS for Juke on Echo.

2 hours ago, RelativeShoe said:

Agreed, and FCS on Vader is unnecessary given how easy it is to take multiple actions with him. I’d drop Elusive and FCS for Juke on Echo.

You must be thinking about 1st Ed FCS because now it isn't about action efficiency. It's about getting those rerolls and keeping the lock on your target which X1's definitely want.

6 hours ago, RelativeShoe said:

Agreed, and FCS on Vader is unnecessary given how easy it is to take multiple actions with him. I’d drop Elusive and FCS for Juke on Echo.

100% disagree with taking FCS off of Vader. With the ship ability giving you a free crit on a locked ship it means that you will seldom have a missed shot with FCS. The average crits thanks to FCS are typically 2 per attack its a glorious thing. If you are flying Vader IMO you are taking Afterburners and FCS with you (73 points)

That being said you could take elusive and collision detector off of Echo and throw on just Juke

25 minutes ago, Glattyator said:

100% disagree with taking FCS off of Vader. With the ship ability giving you a free crit on a locked ship it means that you will seldom have a missed shot with FCS. The average crits thanks to FCS are typically 2 per attack its a glorious thing. If you are flying Vader IMO you are taking Afterburners and FCS with you (73 points)

That being said you could take elusive and collision detector off of Echo and throw on just Juke

If Vader uses his regular action to take a lock he has a lock and three force, statistically better than focus lock. Even if you spend a force to barrel roll you still have two force to use, and if you really want to you can spend another to have lock, focus, force and reposition in one turn. FCS is nice if you have the points, but in this list it’s less important than Juke and Collision Detector on Echo, which makes her impossible to ignore and even harder to catch.

9 minutes ago, RelativeShoe said:

If Vader uses his regular action to take a lock he has a lock and three force, statistically better than focus lock. Even if you spend a force to barrel roll you still have two force to use, and if you really want to you can spend another to have lock, focus, force and reposition in one turn. FCS is nice if you have the points, but in this list it’s less important than Juke and Collision Detector on Echo, which makes her impossible to ignore and even harder to catch.

ESPECIALLY in the case of Hate vader, he regens his force so fast he can be quite liberal with spending his target locks. I've found collision detector or advanced sensors to be way more value than FCS on vader, his action economy is so high. Not to mention FCS only lets you reroll one dice, if you need to reroll two you're spending the lock anyway.

9 minutes ago, RelativeShoe said:

If Vader uses his regular action to take a lock he has a lock and three force, statistically better than focus lock. Even if you spend a force to barrel roll you still have two force to use, and if you really want to you can spend another to have lock, focus, force and reposition in one turn. FCS is nice if you have the points, but in this list it’s less important than Juke and Collision Detector on Echo, which makes her impossible to ignore and even harder to catch.

That's great on 1st initiate but this is a knife fight list, endurance is key. You only regenerate 1 force per turn and you don't want to depend on Hate because your 1st priority is to Ark dodge. You also cant perform actions if you need to execute a talon role or K-turn. 2 points for FCS on Vader > 6 points for Collision detector on Echo. With Echo's ability you need ColDet even less. Flown multiple games with Whisper and Echo and didn't need/use ColDet, IMO ColDet is over priced and needs to be dropped to 4-5

2 minutes ago, pyoinator said:

ESPECIALLY in the case of Hate vader, he regens his force so fast he can be quite liberal with spending his target locks. I've found collision detector or advanced sensors to be way more value than FCS on vader, his action economy is so high. Not to mention FCS only lets you reroll one dice, if you need to reroll two you're spending the lock anyway.

Funny you say that. Probability is you only have one blank die when rolling 3-4 attack die (Yay math!). I usually reserve 1-2 force tokens to use on attack or def die. Valid arguments to be made but I don't want to put that many points on Echo for the simple fact that it has a lower bid for a knife fighter and less action econ that both Vader and Whisper so if I am choosing which ship will explode 1st... its going to be a Juked Echo, that has so many maneuver options without spending 6 more points for.... maybe 1-2 more in a turn

2 minutes ago, Glattyator said:

Funny you say that. Probability is you only have one blank die when rolling 3-4 attack die (Yay math!). I usually reserve 1-2 force tokens to use on attack or def die. Valid arguments to be made but I don't want to put that many points on Echo for the simple fact that it has a lower bid for a knife fighter and less action econ that both Vader and Whisper so if I am choosing which ship will explode 1st... its going to be a Juked Echo, that has so many maneuver options without spending 6 more points for.... maybe 1-2 more in a turn

Your points are well founded. I'm just saying in my experience, Vader gets more value out of other system upgrades than FCS. He used to depend on supernatural to avoid being blocked, and now he relies on smart positioning the turn before to ensure he doesn't get blocked. Collision detector/advSen/afterburners help with that. Plus, if you have to spend the target lock/switch targets, it's a moot point anyway. Echo is a VERY high skill-ceiling ship. If you fly her well, the opponent should not be able to predict where she's going because she has so many options. (Plus even more options if you throw collision detector on her). Echo should be hard to catch, if you're planning on having a ship for them to catch, I'd use a bulkly "shoot me" target like a shuttle instead.

Count me also in the "FCS is a nice perk, but something you can cut from Vader" camp. It's always good when you don't need to spend a lock, when you can more easily pull K-Turns and T-Rolls or just not have to use an action.

But I also think FCS on Vader are some of the less valuable points in most Vader lists. If it's the choice between FCS on Vader, or Juke on a Phantom, to me this is a no-brainer: Juke on the Phantom. He has enough action economy--particularly with Hate--to be fine spending his locks instead of keeping them sometimes. However, Juke is a really crucial upgrade on a Phantom, IMHO.

//

So many -ators! It's like a doppelbock convention!

https://sites.google.com/site/librarypubomaha/news/whydodopplebocknamesendin-ator

On 2/9/2019 at 12:27 AM, Glattyator said:

You want to be weary putting elusive on Phantoms, typically when a Phantom pulls a red maneuver/gets stressed it is shut down until the turn AFTER it clears.

Yeah! But sometimes save a life allowing evade token to be held for cloacking. What about that?

On 2/9/2019 at 9:47 PM, Glattyator said:

That's great on 1st initiate but this is a knife fight list, endurance is key. You only regenerate 1 force per turn and you don't want to depend on Hate because your 1st priority is to Ark dodge. You also cant perform actions if you need to execute a talon role or K-turn. 2 points for FCS on Vader > 6 points for Collision detector on Echo. With Echo's ability you need ColDet even less. Flown multiple games with Whisper and Echo and didn't need/use ColDet, IMO ColDet is over priced and needs to be dropped to 4-5

I find it very useful to use ColDet in my strategy game and it gives me an opportunity to completely surprise my opponent with additional movement possibilities through obstacles. But I have to admit that I'm a new X-Wing player and still learn how to fly effectively. ColDet is my insurance so :-)

On 2/9/2019 at 9:47 PM, Glattyator said:

Flown multiple games with Whisper and Echo and didn't need/use ColDet....

1

Glattyator: Whisper, Echo and... could you tell something more about your squad? I find a lot of fun and pleasure to fly Whisper and Echo and I think that Phantom squads have big potential and it's really true when I can see Battle of Glendale results... https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/1/30/the-battle-of-glendale/

4 hours ago, Ponczi said:

Glattyator: Whisper, Echo and... could you tell something more about your squad? I find a lot of fun and pleasure to fly Whisper and Echo and I think that Phantom squads have big potential and it's really true when I can see Battle of Glendale results... https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/1/30/the-battle-of-glendale/

Yeah Battle of Glendale was the last ride of Phantom dominance, afterwards was the point update with Phantom at the focus for Imps. They took away crew slot (Replacing with Gunner slot) and increased price on Whisper as well as the almost required Juke. Not a single list in that winning line up is even legal anymore

Here is my squad I have been tinkering on since.:

What it is now(ish)

4 hours ago, Ponczi said:

Yeah! But sometimes save a life allowing evade token to be held for cloacking. What about that?

I agree it will help any ship at least once in a game Elusive on Phantom is incredibly hard to run efficiently and effectively because, including the turn you use the charge, it takes minimum 3 turns before you have recovered that charge, shed the stress, and have your cloak abilities synergizing. 3 points for a non-guaranteed reroll on a single def die for a ship that only has 2 natural green die... Ill be looking at other EPTs for Phantom pilots.

Starwing Alpha Class... I've tried too... during one local tournament 2 wins 2 defeats not so bad but not good also...

Rexler Brath (82)
Juke (5)
Fire-Control System (2)

Rho Squadron Pilot (35)
Elusive (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Xg-1 Assault Configuration (0)
Ion Cannon (5)

Imdaar Test Pilot (43)
Collision Detector (6)
Fifth Brother (9)

Total: 200

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