I know most of y'all are stoked about the new points thingy, and probably think the game is better than ever.

But seriously, cards with 7 point values, changes in the legalities of lists, slots come and gone, etc. etc., is beginning to feel like too much work to keep track of for someone who just wants a little more creativity than Quick Build cards and less rules lawyering to keep up with all the changes.

Feel free to flame my negativity amongst all the joy, but all I ever wanted was a fun Star Wars game for Wednesday nights.

You don't need to track, app does it for you Fail to see your point really...

Eh, as someone who played L5R CCG, a little change in legality every now and then never hurt anybody.

Just... use the app?

It tells you everything.

Yeah, I think you've gone out of your way to find the cloud around the silver lining here.

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

I know most of y'all are stoked about the new points thingy, and probably think the game is better than ever.

But seriously, cards with 7 point values, changes in the legalities of lists, slots come and gone, etc. etc., is beginning to feel like too much work to keep track of for someone who just wants a little more creativity than Quick Build cards and less rules lawyering to keep up with all the changes.

Feel free to flame my negativity amongst all the joy, but all I ever wanted was a fun Star Wars game for Wednesday nights.

You're not wrong. I'm not sure that makes you right but this is a big set of changes for the less diehard players.

All of my pulled lists except for the five cartel marauder kihraxz are illegal now. Nearly all of my still legal lists in the squad-builder are showing considerable bids. I'm really wanting some filters on my saved squads along with being able to keep revisions of lists and to have made notes.

I have a list that now has ten more points available. Do I start from scratch on some of this?

You're not wrong.

Just print off the pdfs and use the version you print in perpetuity, ignoring any subsequent update.

How is that hard? Or, y'know, use the app that does all the work of updating things for you.

Besides, how does this affect you anyway? I thought you weren't buying into 2e?

12 minutes ago, Redblock said:

You don't need to track, app does it for you Fail to see your point really...

As a casual Epic player who builds 8-12 ship lists, the app does not have near enough functionality to make it more than a a place to brainstorm.

It can't clone, and it doesn't print with details.

Even YASB fails to order ships by Initiative, which is a royal PIA unless you build your list in IN order. Which matters if you have 10 of them.

If all of your 6000 posts are in the X-Wing forum, I'm not sure you can really count as a casual anymore.

edit: oh, sorry, you're a casual EPIC player, that's totally different!

I'll fix the topic for you "Casual Player Bemoans Changes"

If you play Epic in 2.0, then these point changes should mean diddly to you anyway.

7 minutes ago, XPav said:

If all of your 6000 posts are in the X-Wing forum, I'm not sure you can really count as a casual anymore.

edit: oh, sorry, you're a casual EPIC player, that's totally different!

Right. Epic casuals have 3x as many posts as regular casuals.

13 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I know most of y'all are stoked about the new points thingy, and probably think the game is better than ever.

But seriously, cards with 7 point values, changes in the legalities of lists, slots come and gone, etc. etc., is beginning to feel like too much work to keep track of for someone who just wants a little more creativity than Quick Build cards and less rules lawyering to keep up with all the changes.

Feel free to flame my negativity amongst all the joy, but all I ever wanted was a fun Star Wars game for Wednesday nights.

I understand what you are saying. I have gone to a few tournaments over the years but am mostly casual. Seeing the mercurial points and upgrade slot system has been rough for me to embrace. Honestly, I still haven't fully embraced it but it is something I have to live with. The apps I use really help a lot with making lists.

I enjoy making lists and getting them to where I like them and trying them on the table. I don't have a lot of time to play so once I get a list I like I don't want to let it go. The points change today put one of my lists I have been flying and having a lot of fun with over by 4 points and another under by 17. I now have to adjust them from what I liked to something I may not like as much, but at the end of the day I am still flying little plastic Star Wars ships around a table and that is pretty cool.

35 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I know most of y'all are stoked about the new points thingy, and probably think the game is better than ever.

But seriously, cards with 7 point values, changes in the legalities of lists, slots come and gone, etc. etc., is beginning to feel like too much work to keep track of for someone who just wants a little more creativity than Quick Build cards and less rules lawyering to keep up with all the changes.

Feel free to flame my negativity amongst all the joy, but all I ever wanted was a fun Star Wars game for Wednesday nights.

I feel ya. Sorta.

There's certainly a downside in complexity and inscrutability to having Initiative-variable pricing. It'll be a lot harder to remember what things actually cost, and harder to double-check that an opponent's list is accurate or fair.

But.

I think it's generally worth it. The cards which got the hit from this were frequently some of the more annoying ones to play against. And on the plus side, generic BB Astromechs got a lot cheaper, and these will be fun to play around with.

For now, I'm OK with the complexity-for-balance trade. But I can totally foresee a time when it doesn't feel worth it, when too many variable prices add too much bother.

Have you actually bought into 2nd edition then @Darth Meanie ?

53 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Besides, how does this affect you anyway? I thought you weren't buying into 2e?

So far, no. I was thinking I would get into 2.0 with Prequel stuff.

57 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

You're not wrong. I'm not sure that makes you right but this is a big set of changes for the less diehard players.

Well, it's that keeping track of the game itself now becomes a major endevour. Even if you use the app, you can play a list and come back to the app a few months later and discover your list is illegal, same, or undercosted. And now you have to wade through PDFs, blogs, or what have you to figure out why.

37 minutes ago, Skitchx said:

I understand what you are saying. I have gone to a few tournaments over the years but am mostly casual. Seeing the mercurial points and upgrade slot system has been rough for me to embrace. Honestly, I still haven't fully embraced it but it is something I have to live with. The apps I use really help a lot with making lists.

I enjoy making lists and getting them to where I like them and trying them on the table. I don't have a lot of time to play so once I get a list I like I don't want to let it go. The points change today put one of my lists I have been flying and having a lot of fun with over by 4 points and another under by 17. I now have to adjust them from what I liked to something I may not like as much, but at the end of the day I am still flying little plastic Star Wars ships around a table and that is pretty cool.

And as other people have pointed out, I'm not exactly "true casual," at least in terms of following the game. But if I were like my brother, who basically just shows up to play once a lunar cycle or less, that level of player could walk into a FLGS to game to hear:

"That's amazing. Everything you used to play is now wrong."

And that would be an NPE before you even got to sit down.

You're threading the eye of a needle somewhat there. Not casual enough to use the quick build cards but too casual to use the many list builders, hmmm.......

34 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

As a casual Epic player who builds 8-12 ship lists, the app does not have near enough functionality to make it more than a a place to brainstorm.

It can't clone, and it doesn't print with details.

Even YASB fails to order ships by Initiative, which is a royal PIA unless you build your list in IN order. Which matters if you have 10 of them.

if you are really casual and the games were balanced keep your lists or just pencil in the points change - I like the changes - it stops the crazy stuff like Redline and supernatural

While I think Meanie's point is a little exaggerated, the tone of everyone disagreeing with him is barbaric.

Can we not engage in discourse here? Must we immediately attack the Darth? Is not this a place for discussion among learn-ed pilots??

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

28 minutes ago, MaxTeranous said:

You're threading the eye of a needle somewhat there. Not casual enough to use the quick build cards but too casual to use the many list builders , hmmm.......

Close. I'm too casual to really want to follow all of these changes that are designed to keep tournament players happy.

IMHO, changing the game by manipulating existing components of play to the point where players can become unaware of rules/options via an ongoing series of minutia makes the game less appealing to light-hearted players.

31 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Have you actually bought into 2nd edition then @Darth Meanie ?

Am I not allowed to have an opinion if I didn't?

52 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Right. Epic casuals have 3x as many posts as regular casuals.

And we use Huge fonts.

Just now, Darth Meanie said:

Am I not allowed to have an opinion if I didn't?

Of course you are.

But enquiring minds and all that - have you actually bought into 2nd edition yet, or not?

Sorry OP, but it's hard for me to sympathize. Why should I be willing to put your apathy and laziness above having a more balanced and interesting game at the competitive level for me and my friends to enjoy?

A bunch of my favorite lists got tanked too, and they weren't even top tier, a lot of them were Rebel jank that happened to have a HWK or were 200 points and had some key upgrades that went up. I'm not happy about it, but I know that having a new and fresh meta is going to be worth going back into the lab and retinkering.

Also do you even play 2.0? If you don't then your complaint actually is invalid.

18 minutes ago, HammerGibbens said:

While I think Meanie's point is a little exaggerated, the tone of everyone disagreeing with him is barbaric.

Can we not engage in discourse here? Must we immediately attack the Darth? Is not this a place for discussion among learn-ed pilots??

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

8 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Of course you are.

But enquiring minds and all that - have you actually bought into 2nd edition yet, or not?

No. I was waiting until Wave 3; ergo, I'm still a non-converter but interested in the game long-term.

21 minutes ago, HammerGibbens said:

While I think Meanie's point is a little exaggerated, the tone of everyone disagreeing with him is barbaric.

Can we not engage in discourse here? Must we immediately attack the Darth? Is not this a place for discussion among learn-ed pilots??

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

And the discourse could be, while all these point changes are "great" for the short term balance of the game, I would worry that this could exhaust less-dedicated player from wanting to play keep up.

Which is now a question I am now asking myself about my commitment to this game.

To me, it seems that the point and upgrade changes just seen are significant enough as to change the very nature of the game. That you will never be able to be sure you understand XWM unless you always have a finger on the pulse.

If you don't go to tournaments, is that worth the effort?

And yeah, you can use the app to make sure the list is legal, and just let it tell you things have changed, but if you care that little about the game are you really that much of a player/XWM hobbyist? As in, spending enough to keep XWM alive?

Lastly, if you do have to be that dedicated to keep abreast of what XWM The Game actually is from month to month, is casual play dead?