Hey, last weekend I played the following deck.
It played quite well but I think it still needs some streamlining.

Could you guys help me a bit please.

Cheers, nny

Units (22)

3 x Walking Sacrifice
3 x Gutter Runners
3 x Shades
3 x Vile Sorceress
3 x Corsairs of Ghrond
2 x Morathi's Pegasus
2 x Mortella
3 x Cold One Riders

Tactics (25)

2 x Hate
3 x Lash the Prisoner!
3 x Seduced by Darkness
3 x Call the blood
3 x Chillwind
2 x Dark Visions
3 x We need your blood
3 x Caught the Scent
2 x Invoke Khaine's Wrath
2 x Take Captive!

Quests (3)

1 x Prepare for war!
2 x Infiltrate

Support (10)

2 x Har Ganeth
2 x Word of Pain
3 x Contested Fortress
2 x Altar of Khaine
1 x Cauldron of blood

Total 60 cards

Both quest seems questionable in your build. Do you want to win by Inflitrate, or by attacking ? Both AoU quest would make more sense in my opinion.

Could you use the Hate cards for good effect ?

Maybe I would replace some 3-cost units for some heavy hitters (Lokhir for example).

The plan was winning trough milling and hand destruction.
So the units are there more for defending than for attacking.

I like hate in the dack, sometimes you just need that one extra resource, or you can use it annoy your opponent.

Hi!

I would keep down the cards number...I know that's pretty difficult with decks like this (more with Dark Elves), but I'd pull out some tactics and a Quest, for more consistancy.

Waiting to win by millin' your oppo, with a build like this, it's a big risk.

Anyway, if you wanna focus on control, pull out the Quests...The only one I'd use is "Sack Tor Aedris"...At least, it allows you to have an "aggressive" quest...Mortella and Vile Sorceress are there and if you use it you gain a double advantage and a considerable RESOURCES BOOST (that's much better than Hate).

For a control deck like this, 60 cards are too much...The risk is not to get what you really need (that's the point on a heavy-control deck like yours).

"Call the blood" works better with Caos than with DE itself...Right now, most of the Units die with a single combat...It's more a sideboard card (if you allow sideboarding in your tournament) or a 2x one...I don't use it at all...But that's just a point of view

Cauldron of Blood is more like a "Don't attack here" card: useful, but not that much, considering that you have to invest a little on KZ to have your Tactics engine work.

Then, 1x is not that useful, IN YOUR build.

After that...Give me some time to understand it a bit more and I'll give you more suggestions...if you want them...

IMHO

Thanks for the suggestions DB_Cooper if you have more suggestions please share them

nny said:

Happy to be useful even if I had a bad start in our national league, cause I've not been playin' for a long time...But I'm comin' back and I wanna destroy my meta with Dark Elves

So, let's do this...If you don't mind, I post a list I created tonight...Not tested Yet and it's basically an evolution of your list based on my previous suggestions.

Consider it as an hint (if it sucks, well...It'd be useful to understand you should not play like me... )

It's a BASIC idea...It's good "in theory"...for the testing you've to wait next week

BTW, here it is...

To make an "in depth" analysis, I explain each single choice.

UNITS 24

3x Walking Sacrifie (loyalty, draw engine with Har Ganeth, sack for LtP...It's its job!!! )

3x Vile Sorceress (need an explanation here?)

3x Corsairs of Ghrond (comboes nicely with LtP, nice guy)

3x Cold One Riders (good defense, nice attack)

3x Shades (early discard)

3x Gutter Runners (early discard)

2x Morathi's Pegasus

2x Mortella (destroy your enemy with his own weapons...OMG, I love control!!!)

2x Malus Darkblade (nice finisher, draws a lot of attention)

SUPPORTS 12

3x Har Ganeth (comboes with Vile Sorceress, Walking Sacrifice, slows down the oppo)

3x Warpstone Excavation (boost)

3x Mind Killer (slows down the oppo, early loyalty)

3x Word of Pain (bye bye)

TACTICS 17

3x Dark Visions (boost, tutor)

3x Caught The Scent (fits the strategy, early discard)

3x We need your Blood (units control)

3x Chillwind (comboes with Mortella and Gutter Runners...Avoid the WE malus)

3x Lash The Prisoner (boost, comboes with Shades and Corsairs, love this card!!!)

2x Invoke Khaine's Wrath

TOT 53

NOTE: in prototypes I usually exceed 50 cards, but when tryin' to "transform" them in competitive war machines I tend to reduce the number to 50 (I usually don't exceed maximum)...In this case 1/2 cards over the limit are ok, considering a bunch of good Boosts (WE, LTP) and some cheap stuff...

What do you think? Let's work together to create the ultimate Dark Elf Hand devastation deck!!!

Looks like a pretty good list, Cooper. I can never decide between Malus and Lokhir. I think I like Take Captive! over Invoke Khaine's Wrath (or maybe two of each) for the LtP combo (remember you can have them soak damage and then get Lashed). Still not sold on Caught the Scent, which seems a little too expensive. Would be good against Order decks, I guess. I'm on the fence on Mind Killer, too; good in the early turns if they put guys in Quest. If you're going to play Gutter Runners, you might as well play Deathmasters and Elites over marginal guys like Morathi's Pegasus. Needs Villages. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like the way to play Dark Visions is to run a lot of 2-ofs and use it as a toolbox card. Or to look for a key combo component, which this deck doesn't seem to have.

I'm with cyberfunk in preferring Take Captive over Invoke Khaine's Wrath, and even more so when you are Lashing vigorously.

The main reason is that I tend to find that Khaine often gets grumpy right after your second zone gets burned, which is a bit too late, whereas the helpful "volunteer" you draft for TC can save that zone. Having said that, mixing both can be good too if your opponent knows your decklist since then it's harder for them to play round TC and IKW.

Looks nice, I'll try it out as soon as i can.
If you manage to play it this weekend let me know how it went.

Thanks for the effort guys...I hope it's useful for you NNY!!! )

Anyway, let's think...

- TAKE CAPTIVE

Definitely a good card and I guess you're right guys. I'll test it, removing IKW for it.

I guess it's like a 3 cost "defend and kill" card.

- CAUGHT THE SCENT

I think it's expensive too, but I thought about it for 2 reasons:

- fits the hand devastation strategy;

- removing "Units removal". Some Units are KEY cards in this Deck. I don't really care about any particular Support card, but I do care about removals...Mortella, i.e., is a cornerstone of the deck.

- DARK VISIONS

It's good because of 2-cost cards. Opening with a 2-cost + Dark visions gives you the opportunity to get a boost (LtP if you have WS...Or the opposite) and helps you with a bad hand.

It's not card advantage, but it saved my life in previous testing with other lists...

- CONTESTED VILLAGE

For the Same reasons I use Dark Visions, I do really need them, now I'm sure. It lets me avoid the 2-cost stall.

Later in the afternoon I'll take some time to think about the Units...I don't wanna let this become a Skaven deck for "FAITH" reasons But I wanna think about other viable options for Units...

NNY: sorry if you think I'd stolen your Thread...this is not my intention...It's just "cooperating" and finding a good solution

Personally I wouldn't play more Skaven than the Gutterrunners in this deck.
The other Skaven cards may be good but I don't want to make another rushdeck.

I ain't that fond of take captive!, there are many situations where it's just to expensive in my eyes.

Btw, Cooper don't think that I think that you stole my thread , it's a new discipline -> co-op deckbuilding.

Hmmm an interesting deckbuild. I think i'll give it a try Cooper when next I go to the gamestore to play some WH:I.

Darthvegeta800 said:

Hi Vegeta!

If you do, tell us what you've got!

I like where this is going. I'm gonna also try to piece this together and post what seems to work and not work for me.

A little test with it...

Considering that it's been played against a "not so strong" High Elf deck (not too bad in the long run, but a bit slow), it did pretty well. You can get pretty awesome starts out of here...Good manipulation/draw/sacrifice machine (Walking Sacrifice, take it back with Har Ganeth, play again 2nd turn, sack it for Lash the Prisoner, draw, Dark visions, etc.).

It's pretty resilient in the long run, even if it doesn't have any destructive Unit.

But I'd wait another test, more focused than that.

Anyway, just to let you know that it seems to be on the right way...

I really like this one here. It's similar to the tournament winning deck that Cooper posted in another thread.

You have to develop early into quest to get your Chariots enough hit points to attack without getting killed easily. Sack Tor Aendris is really powerful in this combination as your units become like they were everywhere in your turn. They get you cards, deal damage and get you resources after that. Walking Sacrifices and Mind Killer help to get quick loyalty for playing turn 1 Chariot or early Caught the Scent. As I have to develop in quest I thought Pilgrimage would fit good in this deck as it gives this control deck a high elvish touch.

Unit (20)

3x Walking Sacrifice

3x Lobber Crew

3x Shades

3x Vile Sorceress

3x Cold One Chariot

3x Corsairs of Ghrond

2x Mortella

Tactic (15)

3 Chillwind

3 We Need Your Blood

3 Caught the Scent

3 Pillage

3 Pilgrimage

Quest (3)

3x Sack Tor Aendris

Support (12)

3x Mind Killer

3x Warpstone Excavation

3x Contested Village

3x Har Ganeth

Nice concept around Chariot...I used to play that card...I removed it just becaus I gave the last versiona more "hand control" touch and a bito more of consistancy on "sack-draw-kill" stuff.

Anyway, I REEEALLY like this one and give it a try...

Pilgrimage is a big idea as well, just to give more sense to the developements.

Maybe (that's just my "classic control point of view" ) i'd consider a real Finisher in the deck...Someone's there to get your oppo attention while other stuff annoys him.

The fact with Dark Elf is that they're pretty solid and have a very useful/functional core that leaves no space for modifications and makes them pretty difficult...Each DE build seems to have great personality and it's difficult to stay on 50...

DB_Cooper said:

I couldn't test this deck against a strong rush deck but against most of the others there was no real need for attention because the opponent is annoyed that he can't really play much. In many games the opponent's board is quite clear because you can get rid of most units with little effort. Vile Sorc and Har Garneth nearly force the opponent to play 3HP units or buildings that (if you're lucky enough with card draw) you can pillage the next turn.

Caught the Scent destroys key cards especially tactics or other bothersome cards that you can't destroy when they are in play and it helps you to adjust your strategy when you know actual hand cards of your opponent. Even in a reset situation the deck allows you to rebuild yourself if your oppenent doesn't finish you quickly. Most of the cards are playable with 3 resources and since quest cards stay in play you have all the loyalty you need (Pillage excluded).

I made some minor changes to this deck as brutal offering on corsairs is too good. I also included Hate because it further disturbs the opponent in his turns and it also gives some safety when you attack and your opponent still has 1 or 2 resources. I had a match where I had his turn 1 unit "mindkiller'd", after that he played a building and I stole him 1 resource on his next turn. One or two turns after that I could double Pillgrimage (for 0 cost) 2 other units from him and destroyed his building so by turn 4 or 5 his board was basically clear and I had already a Sack Tor Aendris with chariots + Shades in battlefield going. Quest card, Warpstone Exvacation/Contested Village and a Mind Killer on starting Hand are quite strong.

The only matches that I lost were because of a lack of power but I don't know what to get out of the list and what to include. Lokhir doesn't fit because I can't develop the battlefield too. Maybe Malus instead of Mortella? She didn't win me games but I think she was a menace when in play because it reduced some tactics of your opponent (demolition, will of the electors, gift of aenarion...).

Sadly I can't playtest really much because it's hard to find time to play when somebody isn't working ... so if anyone could share experience against a tight skaven deckversion it would be appreciated.

actuallist is here:

Units (17)

3 Lobber Crew

3 Shades
3 Vile Sorceress
3 Cold One Chariot
3 Corsairs of Ghrond
3 Mortella

Tactic (18)

3 Hate
3 Chillwind
2 We Need Your Blood
2 Brutal Offering
2 Caught the Scent
3 Pillage
3 Pilgrimage

Quest (3)

3 Sack Tor Aendris

Support (12)

3 Mind Killer
3 Warpstone Excavation
3 Contested Village
3 Har Ganeth

Clan Moulder would probably be a good fit if you are looking to add some power.

Yeah that's true but I refuse to play skaven ^^. I'm aware that I limit myself because of that but I want to try to do get good allround deck without them.

grille said:

Absolutely agree!! I just ignore Skaven cards in my build...It's like a...religion.

Has anyone tried doing a variation of this that uses the Rock Lobber to sack stolen units? I wonder if such a deck would be possible?

Nice input, man!

I'll give it a try...That's...evil!

DB_Cooper said:

Haha, thanks!

I try from time to time.