1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:It was an in person conversation, so I doubt it 😅
Neat! There's two of me!
Sorry, there's not many Rebel players toying with Biggs, Magva, selfless four ship routines. Partially because it's not glamorous or exciting. I was doing well with it though, so it's frontline list for me.
40 minutes ago, matt.sucharski said:This decent list might weather it ok:
Cry4 Drea (Drea + 4xCrymorah Goons w/ Dorsal & VTG) just point at one of them and attack 9 times. Maybe lose 1 y-wing.
At range 2 against a reinforce token, you'll do a maximum of 9 damage (not counting potential crits).
I'll give it a shot today, 5 strikers vs tripsilons. I'll play the tripsilons and coach the strikers, then we play it out
11 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Neat! There's two of me!
Sorry, there's not many Rebel players toying with Biggs, Magva, selfless four ship routines. Partially because it's not glamorous or exciting. I was doing well with it though, so it's frontline list for me.
9 minutes ago, Gilarius said:In extended, yes. But it's not hyperspace legal.
This is the crux of my issue with Hyperspace. The thing I was most hesitant of, a list far above the curve, has far less counterplay and options in Hyperspace than extended.
Many of the best options for counterplay are not Hyperspace legal. Tripsilon is a very difficult to beat list in full extended, and very nearly requires you to list build around. But the more limited spate of options means that it is very likely, even probable, that several ships, and perhaps factions, become inviable due to this.
How deep of a bid do you need for Vader, to place after. Because if the Trips place before Vader? May as well call game. Vader will almost certainly die (brilliant evasion, when it comes out, may be nice). Or, alternately, you are starting with a base price of over 100 points for SNR Vader for the hope of being able to escape.
And the other X1’s? They’re tough to be viable without the Shuttle, no chance.
Now what happens to that list of you face something else?
TIE swarms may have a hard time punching through. So bring Howl, but Howl will get pasted, so you must bring Iden. Now you’re at 80 points for two TIE/ln.
Strikers are fun, but not fast enough to get away. And with 2 AGI and only hull? You are guaranteed to lose one, possibly two. This list single handedly eliminates Sabaac and Duchess. Countdown may have a chance, if you run up hard and are able to sneak behind them (but the 1k and 2 sloop will be hard to do against the traffic jam). If you spread them across the board, you can probably sore some. The problem then is: do you have enough firepower to even up points? Can you flank _everythingr_ when they can 2 hard different directions. I posit that it is unlikely. You’ll lose at least one to start, and at least one more a turn or two later.
Double tap Y’s are an interesting option, and I played against a fully loaded Nora, Dutch, Gold list yesterday that is a porcupine. The ions were especially nasty. Not sure how it fares against Trips, maybe the genetics would be better. More ship, more guns.
X-wings? Maybe. Selfless and Biggs seem good here. Again can you survive attrition and retain enough offense.
The Falcon, particularly Han, May be your best bet. It can take the initial shots and still be viable (probably). Han with Lando to gamble for double tokens?
U-wing? It gets pasted. It’s not fast or agile enough, and doesn’t have the health of the Falcon. It’s only turn around requires it to stop, and be -1 AGI.
A Falcon with Biggs and a double tap Y? Maybe. But now you are list building to beat this.
It may not be unbeatable, but it 100% requires you to build around it, and none of the hard counters (ha, no such thing, merely things that are more likely to survive with power) are Hyperspace legal outside of the Resistance. There isn’t any list that is even more than 60/40 against Trips, while I can think of several otherwise viable lists that are 20/80 or worse against it.
It is exactly emblematic of why I strongly favor extended.
33 minutes ago, JJ48 said:Then we use our rear arcs to keep chipping away and our superior Crew options to keep the pressure on!
Looks at hyperspace legal crew for Empire
1 minute ago, millertime059 said:Looks at hyperspace legal crew for Empire
https://giphy.com/gifs/sad-depressed-disappointed-33iqmp5ATXT5m
Well, if the requirement is that it must be Hyperspace-legal, then Lambda s are a no-go anyway. I think there are multiple conversations going on simultaneously, one being Hyperspace-exclusive and others not so much.
7 minutes ago, JJ48 said:Well, if the requirement is that it must be Hyperspace-legal, then Lambda s are a no-go anyway. I think there are multiple conversations going on simultaneously, one being Hyperspace-exclusive and others not so much.
So I’ll say this, a list I cooked up last week, had great success with, fought trips to a draw with, and pasted everything else in 40 minutes or less, only losing a single other ship across 5 non trips games. Full Extended options, and I was able to fight trips to a draw (where I lost in Final Salvo)
Sai with Sloane
Feroph with Death Troopers
Howl
Night Beast
Academy
Its a nasty, efficient, brutal, almost downright unfair list. People hated it after our game (was not my intent, the entire theory had been, Death Troopers, haven’t seen them used. Let’s try them).
And yet, despite all that, I was only able to manage a draw (and also be the only person not tabled by it). Granted his list used Phasma on Thannison, which is a brilliant update, as it makes doing the thing you need to do, get behind it, that much harder. The extra 2-3 turns it took my remaining ships to get turned around likely made the difference.
So my entire premise is that this list is a massive problem for Hyperspace. It almost entirely invalidates the Empire. In extended it has more counterplay, but is still a massive meta defining problem.
And unfortunatley the answer is almost always either ‘switch factions’ or ‘list build around this specific list’. Neither of which I’m ok with.
Its like being someone who liked Interceptors at the height of Dengaroo. It was not beatable if you took those ships. It single handedly removed entire ships from the game, almost for the rest of 1st ed.
It’s not that bad… yet. But it could be.
Edited by millertime05939 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Neat! There's two of me!
Sorry, there's not many Rebel players toying with Biggs, Magva, selfless four ship routines. Partially because it's not glamorous or exciting. I was doing well with it though, so it's frontline list for me.
I mean somebody was pitching Tripsilons at him (in discussion, not on the table), and I think the question was raised "What in Hyperspace can stand a chance against that round 1." Not so much that it's what he normally plays, but. He's a solid player who will actually fly stuff others aren't looking at, for sure.
I've been running Han Yolo and 2x A-Wings a lot recently, how would you run Lulo and Tallie vs Trip Ups? Han is obviously going to start in a great spot to get right behind them, but I'm worried I lose both A-Wings in the first 2 rounds
43 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:At range 2 against a reinforce token, you'll do a maximum of 9 damage (not counting potential crits).
I think trading most of 1 y-wing for 6 shields might be ok on that tought 1st turn.
6 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:I mean somebody was pitching Tripsilons at him (in discussion, not on the table), and I think the question was raised "What in Hyperspace can stand a chance against that round 1." Not so much that it's what he normally plays, but. He's a solid player who will actually fly stuff others aren't looking at, for sure.
Ah, understood. Well, your friend here isn't wrong. From experience with the list I also think it has a chance, but not sure how big that chance is yet.
5 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:I've been running Han Yolo and 2x A-Wings a lot recently, how would you run Lulo and Tallie vs Trip Ups? Han is obviously going to start in a great spot to get right behind them, but I'm worried I lose both A-Wings in the first 2 rounds
Going off what @GreenDragoon and some of us were discussing in their Five A-Wings thread over in the Battle Reports sub your best bet would be to try and slip around the front Upsilons by aiming to end up out of arc and to their sides. Dormitz should not have many if any mods for their attack and can only attack either Lulo or Tallie.
Hyperspace Tracker needs to be made Unique to efficiently fix this. It can only go on the Upsilon at the moment anyway.
Stops the list from deploying at I6 and stops the huge token stack.
48 minutes ago, Deffly said:Hyperspace Tracker needs to be made Unique to efficiently fix this. It can only go on the Upsilon at the moment anyway.
Stops the list from deploying at I6 and stops the huge token stack.
They'd still get the alpha strike, they would just go to focus+lock+reinforce instead of focus+lock+reinforce+2x evade.
5 hours ago, Hiemfire said:Dormitz should not have many if any mods for their attack and can only attack either Lulo or Tallie.
It'll still be 4 dice with focus, it's not nothing. But the bigger risk is screwing up and ending up in two arcs, yeah.
1 minute ago, svelok said:It'll still be 4 dice with focus, it's not nothing. But the bigger risk is screwing up and ending up in two arcs, yeah .
Risk mitigation. Getting fully out of the 3 arcs against a reasonably competent player is impossible turn 1 without special abilities that change where you setup in turn 0.
3 hours ago, svelok said:They'd still get the alpha strike, they would just go to focus+lock+reinforce instead of focus+lock+reinforce+2x evade.
It'll still be 4 dice with focus, it's not nothing. But the bigger risk is screwing up and ending up in two arcs, yeah.
Not really, there would only be one Hyperspace Tracker in the list so the best initiatives to deploy are I2 for Dormitz (so you can place the other two at R2), Tavson at I3 and SKB at I6.
As long as you have ships deploying after Dormitz at I2 you can counter deploy and escape the Alpha.
10 hours ago, millertime059 said:Strikers are fun, but not fast enough to get away. And with 2 AGI and only hull? You are guaranteed to lose one, possibly two.
You're expecting to take a kicking, but even 4-dice-primary, range 1, focus/locked attack will struggle to one-hit a striker, especially a planetary sentinel with a shield upgrade.
Fly into one upsilon (initiative 1 moves first so you're not blocked) and take a range 1 from the other. It'll hurt like heck, but it's only got aout a 10% chance of killing you, and "one of my ships is on fire or dead before we start" was SOP against the torpedo trios pre points adjustment.
http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=ggAAAAAAAAAA&a1=UwgAAAAEAAAA
Edited by Magnus GrendelIs Hotshot gunner worth considering on I3 Y-wings with selfless, esp. with Magva? It removes a mod, which lowers the hit numbers by a good amount.
In all this, did anyone work out what his illegal squad was?
8 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:Is Hotshot gunner worth considering on I3 Y-wings with selfless, esp. with Magva? It removes a mod, which lowers the hit numbers by a good amount.
Works, probably... except in any other match up.
3 hours ago, TheCeilican said:In all this, did anyone work out what his illegal squad was?
Yeah, I posted the deets on page 2 or 3. Nothing sinister, error in the squad builder was the root cause.
17 hours ago, svelok said:They'd still get the alpha strike, they would just go to focus+lock+reinforce instead of focus+lock+reinforce+2x evade.
OK. A couple questions here.
#1 - The Triple Upsilons that went undefeated in Phoenix is now 203 points after the points rebalance. So what changes are being made to get it back down to 200 or less.
#2 (and more important to me) - How are both of the forward ships getting focus+lock+reinforce+2x evade? I can't see how the ships are getting that many actions and tokens even with the coordinate and the tokens from Hyperspace Tracking Data?
Setup:
Dormitz deploys. No other ships to get a focus or evade.
STB #1 deploys - Dormitz gets a token.
STB #2 deploys - Dormitz gets a 2nd token, STB #1 get a token.
Activation:
Domirtz coordinates - probably STB #2 gets an action.
STB1 & STB2 get 1 action each. (TL for offense or Reinforce for defense)
I can see 1 ship having TL/Reinforce/focus or evade or both ships having a Reinforce/focus or evade or TL/Focus or evade. Unless I'm missing something in the interaction (which is quite possible, as I have not faced Triple Upsilons yet), how are both of the forward STBs getting focus+lock+reinforce+2x evade?
3 4-dice attacks with this many HP is nothing to sneeze at. I just don't see how it is the first turn monster on both offense and defense.
Edited by Spike IT6 minutes ago, Spike IT said:Setup:
Dormitz deploys. No other ships to get a focus or evade.
STB #1 deploys - Dormitz gets a token.
STB #2 deploys - Dormitz gets a 2nd token, STB #1 get a token.
Re-read the card, the tokens are assigned After Setup, so everyone get to assign tokens to everyone else in range, hence the stack.
5 minutes ago, Spike IT said:#1 - The Triple Upsilons that went undefeated in Phoenix is now 203 points after the points rebalance. So what changes are being made to get it back down to 200 or less.
5 minutes ago, Spike IT said: #2 (and more important to me) - How are both of the forward ships getting focus+lock+reinforce+2x evade? I can't see how the ships are getting that many actions and tokens even with the coordinate and the tokens from Hyperspace Tracking Data?
#1:
I guess we'll see. You can fit Dormitz/Tavson/Generic, with Collision Detector on the front two.
#2.
Hyperspace Tracking Data assigns its tokens after setup. So all three get all three tokens.
Dormitz coordinates one a reinforce, then both take lock actions. Tavson takes a reinforce when the opponent shoots at her.