Just now, JJ48 said:I was thinking more the Tractors.
Just get close enough to jam the reinforce off your target. They'll feel those attacks then! (sadly, not an option for most factions in Hyperspace...)
Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)
So what is the build, exactly? Tavson, Dormitz, Starkiller all with HyperTracking? Any other super necessary pieces?
5 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:So what is the build, exactly? Tavson, Dormitz, Starkiller all with HyperTracking? Any other super necessary pieces?
Not anymore. Now it's more like this
Lieutenant Dormitz (60)
Hyperspace Tracking Data (2)
Collision Detector (6)
Starkiller Base Pilot (56)
Hyperspace Tracking Data (2)
Collision Detector (6)
Starkiller Base Pilot (56)
Hyperspace Tracking Data (2)
Collision Detector (6)
Total: 196
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0
Edited by GreenDragoonJust now, GreenDragoon said:
Why Col-Det on Dormitz?
1 minute ago, LagJanson said:Why Col-Det on Dormitz?
He's still a vital threat of the list, but I don't really know.
Also you were too fast, I changed it to the version with the 2 generics. Grabbed the wrong link before.
Just now, GreenDragoon said:Also you were too fast
I've been waiting for the "current" version. Instant click when I see somebody suggesting a variant.
Surprised Tavson is out.
I just wouldn't have thought Dormitz would have Col-Det since he's basically going to just cover his friendlies. That said, guess it means he can fly about freely for a bit without worrying about rocks. Why think and fly better when you can just use another card?
21 minutes ago, kris40k said:and the Lambdas will probably have more shots on target than the Ups with the rear arc during the awkward dogfight afterwards.
I think the word 'dogfight' is overstating it when you've got 6 heavy personnel shuttles duking it out, but I agree the rear arc may give the Lambda the edge. Especially since you've gone for upgrades which work out of that rear arc, like vader.
Why put Krennic on ST-321, by the way? Sai is the one ship which doesn't need the Lock action, since he gets a lock whenever he co-ordinates someone else.
Soooo you just bring this?
T-70 X-wing - •Poe Dameron - 84
•Poe Dameron -
Trigger-Happy Flyboy
(68)
•BB-8 (8)
Afterburners (6)
•
Black One
(2)
Integrated S-foils (Open) (0)
Scavenged YT-1300 Light Freighter - •Han Solo - 111
•Han Solo -
Jaded Smuggler
(76)
•Rose Tico (9)
Engine Upgrade (7)
•Rey’s
Millennium Falcon
(5)
•Rey (14)
Total: 195/200
View in the X-Wing Squad Builder
Might not even be the strongest pieces to put on Han, I haven’t flown Resistance very much. But you’ve got a 1 point bid over the boogeyman; if they choose to do their normal setup, Han just places behind them, Poe prepares to SLAM past (or just. Not SLAM, depending on where they move to.) You’ve got an extremely maneuverable Large base and the best X-Wing pilot in the game sitting pretty behind some Tripsilons 🤷♂️
(And while you could consider this a counter-build, it’s also perfectly viable against non-Tripsilons.)
Edited by SpiderMana3 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:Soooo you just bring this?
Yes sure. It's the one list I even mentioned. But the question is not "what list can you build to beat it?", it's "how can you beat it with your list?"
1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:Soooo you just bring this?
T-70 X-wing - •Poe Dameron - 84
•Poe Dameron - Trigger-Happy Flyboy (68)
•BB-8 (8)
Afterburners (6)
• Black One (2)
Integrated S-foils (Open) (0)Scavenged YT-1300 Light Freighter - •Han Solo - 111
•Han Solo - Jaded Smuggler (76)
•Rose Tico (9)
Engine Upgrade (7)
•Rey’s Millennium Falcon (5)
•Rey (14)Total: 195/200
View in the X-Wing Squad Builder
Might not even be the strongest pieces to put on Han, I haven’t flown Resistance very much. But you’ve got a 1 point bid over the boogeyman; if they choose to do their normal setup, Han just places behind them, Poe prepares to SLAM past (or just. Not SLAM, depending on where they move to.) You’ve got an extremely maneuverable Large base and the best X-Wing pilot in the game sitting pretty behind some Tripsilons 🤷♂️
(And while you could consider this a counter-build, it’s also perfectly viable against non-Tripsilons.)
I won't lie, I considered making a Resistance Solo list for this match up, but I don't fly fat turrets particularly well.
While there are specific list counters we can name off that would work well vs Triple Ups... the idea here is tactical to see if there are solutions for the vast majority of lists that aren't built to be counters.
Also, as I noted, if I were to build Triple Ups... I'd have a bid...
6 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:I think the word 'dogfight' is overstating it when you've got 6 heavy personnel shuttles duking it out, but I agree the rear arc may give the Lambda the edge. Especially since you've gone for upgrades which work out of that rear arc, like vader.
Why put Krennic on ST-321, by the way? Sai is the one ship which doesn't need the Lock action, since he gets a lock whenever he co-ordinates someone else.
I think I was thinking more of the Optimized Prototype, and wanting Krennic on the ship most likely to have a Target Lock. But that's a good point, and I may try swapping them around a bit.
2 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:•Poe Dameron - Trigger-Happy Flyboy (68)
Great. Now Weird Al's Trigger Happy is going to be in my head all day.
1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:Yes sure. It's the one list I even mentioned. But the question is not "what list can you build to beat it?", it's "how can you beat it with your list?"
Yeah, I wouldn't want to see Second Edition devolve into Rock/Paper/Scissors list-building.
I think the next two interesting topics would be:
Which ships can make a stand and try to weather the storm?
What are mistakes by the Tripsilon player and how can you capitalize on them?
53 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Just get close enough to jam the reinforce off your target. They'll feel those attacks then! (sadly, not an option for most factions in Hyperspace...)
Rebels and Resistance are the only two without some form of Jam capability available in Hyperspace. Empire has the Reaper, F/O has Upsilons (obviously...) and Scum has Old T and Seevor (/cringe at taking specific pilots to deal with this).
13 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Which ships can make a stand and try to weather the storm ?
Someone was talking Magva, Biggs, and a couple of Y’s the other day. Seemed best case for Rebels.
Which ships can make a stand and try to weather the storm?
Going with the worst case of two attacks, 4 dice+focus+lock: expected hits is 7.5, and 91% chance for 7 hits.
Completely ignoring fancier actions or Biggs, Selfless and similar shenanigans:
-
Range 2
-
against 1 agility + focus
- 6.3 damage, 82% for 6 or more damage;
- examples are Y-/B-/K-wing, ARC, Punisher, Reaper, Lambda, YT1300s, Scurrg, G1A, Kimogilas. These have all 8 or more health;
- They should or definitely will survive;
-
against 2 agility + focus
- 5.2 damage, 75% for 5 or more damage;
- examples are many ships, often in the 4 to 7 HP range;
- These ships have often a harder time and might explode or be at least heavily damaged;
-
against 3 agility + focus
- 4.2 damage, 70% for 4 or more damage;
- examples are A-/E-wings, x1, v1, Defender, Starviper, Fang. 8 ships have 4 or less HP;
- These ships live very dangerously!;
- the damage reduces to 43% of 4 or more at range 3. Still very dangerous!
-
against 1 agility + focus
I think this immediately reveals that a lot of very popular ships are in huge danger. If you play Fangs, Xwings, Phantoms , HWKs and other very frequent ships, you'll come into very close chance of losing them if you do not know how to handle it. That means this squad can take many people by surprise and it will turn out bad (or well for the Tripsilon).
It also shows that the typical 1agility ship does not have to be scared to death. Of course it hurts if a YT1300 loses half the HP in the first turn, but it will survive and hopefully can pay it back. At that point it all depends on context. But I think such a baseline is useful to further think about what to do. I, for one, can't stay at range 3 with my Awings, that will hurt me too much.
This decent list might weather it ok:
Cry4 Drea (Drea + 4xCrymorah Goons w/ Dorsal & VTG) just point at one of them and attack 9 times. Maybe lose 1 y-wing.
5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:It also shows that the typical 1agility ship does not have to be scared to death. Of course it hurts if a YT1300 loses half the HP in the first turn, but it will survive and hopefully can pay it back. At that point it all depends on context. But I think such a baseline is useful to further think about what to do. I, for one, can't stay at range 3 with my Awings, that will hurt me too much.
Maybe Tactical Scrambler on a Large, tanky ship would help? It has the hit points to weather the attack, and smaller ships can tuck in behind it for a little safety.
5 minutes ago, JJ48 said:Maybe Tactical Scrambler on a Large, tanky ship would help? It has the hit points to weather the attack, and smaller ships can tuck in behind it for a little safety.
In extended, yes. But it's not hyperspace legal.
1 hour ago, kris40k said:Sure, but they arn't stripping green tokens or lowering the agility of the primary first. Past the inital rush, the Ups won't be as stacked in tokens, meaning stripping greens and 0 agility due to tractor will be more important to get the reinforce off and the Lambdas will probably have more shots on target than the Ups with the rear arc during the awkward dogfight afterwards.
The trouble is that the Lambdas won’t be able to get past the Ups. Their fastest is a 3 straight, and if Dormitz is up behind them, there won’t be room to fit. And once you get past them, the Ups has a better dial, which in this case means 2 white hards.
So a round or two of rear shots doesn’t have as much value as the Ups being more likely to get turned around for another joust.
Although this is a quite an interesting dive into theorizing and list-building against the dreaded Tripsilon, I'm thinking post-points-realignment-ness, this list is not going to be the boogieman of the next six months, not even in the top five. I mean, it wasn't even all that before. But maybe I'm sleepy...
Where's my tea?
13 minutes ago, millertime059 said:The trouble is that the Lambdas won’t be able to get past the Ups. Their fastest is a 3 straight, and if Dormitz is up behind them, there won’t be room to fit. And once you get past them, the Ups has a better dial, which in this case means 2 white hards.
So a round or two of rear shots doesn’t have as much value as the Ups being more likely to get turned around for another joust.
Then we use our rear arcs to keep chipping away and our superior Crew options to keep the pressure on!
We are the Galactic Freakin' Empire, and we refuse to succumb to a bunch of copycat upstarts! Ooh, you can destroy a few worlds? Big deal! Thanks to Kevin J. Anderson, pretty much every single antagonist in the last 40 years has been able to do at least as much! We were destroying planets before it was cool!
Edited by JJ4848 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:Someone was talking Magva, Biggs, and a couple of Y’s the other day. Seemed best case for Rebels.
That was likely me. I'm very uncertain it's enough, because the list isn't negating damage... it's spreading it. Might be able to capitalize if the shuttles roll below average and those locks only re-roll one die though.
26 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:examples are Y-/B-/K-wing, ARC, Punisher, Reaper, Lambda, YT1300s , Scurrg , G1A, Kimogilas. These have all 8 or more health;
With the addition of the gunner slot gunship Scurrg builds front load quite a bit of firepower if they can get into range 2 or 1. I'm not sure it'll get through the first round token stack, but it could (can fit 3 Lok with Dorsal and Vet Tur with Dorsal Drea in a list, so that is 6 attacks, either 3/2 or 4/3 from each Scurrg depending on range to target) and certainly has the potential to cause the Upsilons some headaches. Even just one in a list could strip a fair number of tokens off for the rest of the squad to capitalize on. Once past it becomes a slightly nimbler and slightly faster Lambda with Lock instead of Jam (swing turret to rear arc). Might be a good argument to run proxies on them as well for some turn 2-3 on ship drops.
7 minutes ago, LagJanson said:That was likely me. I'm very uncertain it's enough, because the list isn't negating damage... it's spreading it. Might be able to capitalize if the shuttles roll below average and those locks only re-roll one die though.
It was an in person conversation, so I doubt it 😅