From the spoilers thus far, What do you think the price/role of each ship will be? What do you hope or expect of each ship?

I hope the faction as a whole will be a lot of cheap ships.

I expect droid fighters to be very cheap, I want it to be less than a tie, but I am not sure if that would be too strong. But then again tie’s aren’t especially strong now anyway.

I hope the sith infiltrator is hiding a ability that makes the ship, or it will need to be crazy cheap for a large base single arc ship to be good.

On the other hand if it is very cheap, it would be very visually appealing to see 2 infiltrators and 4+ droid fighters.

My only wish for the Belebub is having a crew slot so we are not required to take an infiltrator for squad support, and I hope it will not be too expensive.

what are your thoughts/expectations?

1. Vulture will be cheaper than a TIE/Ln even with the configuration (which will be 0 pts, it is how the droids are built much as the S-Foils are a part of the basic design of the X-Wing), specifically I'm thinking between 20 and 22 pts due to stats, dial and how tricky the config will be to use (I've been having allot of facepalm moments listening to pod casters mess up the timings of the two sides and forgetting that only the face-up side is in effect and only one side can be face up at a time). Missile Slot, NO Talent or Mod Slot at all for the chassis, and maybe (very unlikely) a Tac Relay slot on the higher inits. I'm also expecting an errata pass for the trigger condition of the Open side of the config. As it is now, since it has a different trigger timing from the Closed side which takes place after the Closed side triggers, it automatically flips itself back to closed after the Check Stress step of executing a maneuver rendering the config mostly null.

2. Infiltrator: From the spoiled spread (not looking at pilot specific upgrade slots) we're looking at Title or Config (Scimitar Title if present will have the cloak action tied to it in some way, otherwise it'll be a config along the lines of the ones on the Starwing which will have the cloak ability), Crew (1 maybe 2), Torpedo, Cannon and Mod Slots baseline and it is nimble for a large base. No less than 60 pts I think for the generic, though they might bring it down to the high 50s. It may have a Tac Relay slot, may not though.

Infiltrator Spread:

3. Belbullab-22: Mod and Tac Relay slot baseline, no Crew slot (there is physically no room in one for more personnel than the pilot, unless you're thinking Grievous would be so chummy with Dooku that he'd have him sit on his lap...) or secondary weapons (didn't have any in either Canon nor Legends). Mid to high 30s for the I1 Autopilot (single Calculate is nowhere near as good as a single Focus, and it cannot borrow calculate tokens from others), the rest in the 40s.

One thing to remember is that all 3 ships are effectively speed 5 movers, the Vultures and Infiltrators just don't have boost.

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

1. Vulture will be cheaper than a TIE/Ln even with the configuration (which will be 0 pts, it is how the droids are built much as the S-Foils are a part of the basic design of the X-Wing), specifically I'm thinking between 20 and 22 pts due to stats, dial and how tricky the config will be to use (I've been having allot of facepalm moments listening to pod casters mess up the timings of the two sides and forgetting that only the face-up side is in effect and only one side can be face up at a time). Missile Slot, NO Talent or Mod Slot at all for the chassis, and maybe (very unlikely) a Tac Relay slot on the higher inits. I'm also expecting an errata pass for the trigger condition of the Open side of the config. As it is now, since it has a different trigger timing from the Closed side which takes place after the Closed side triggers, it automatically flips itself back to closed after the Check Stress step of executing a maneuver rendering the config mostly null.

2. Infiltrator: From the spoiled spread (not looking at pilot specific upgrade slots) we're looking at Title or Config (Scimitar Title if present will have the cloak action tied to it in some way, otherwise it'll be a config along the lines of the ones on the Starwing which will have the cloak ability), Crew (1 maybe 2), Torpedo, Cannon and Mod Slots baseline and it is nimble for a large base. No less than 60 pts I think for the generic, though they might bring it down to the high 50s. It may have a Tac Relay slot, may not though.

Infiltrator Spread:

3. Belbullab-22: Mod and Tac Relay slot baseline, no Crew slot (there is physically no room in one for more personnel than the pilot, unless you're thinking Grievous would be so chummy with Dooku that he'd have him sit on his lap...) or secondary weapons (didn't have any in either Canon nor Legends). Mid to high 30s for the I1 Autopilot (single Calculate is nowhere near as good as a single Focus, and it cannot borrow calculate tokens from others), the rest in the 40s.

One thing to remember is that all 3 ships are effectively speed 5 movers, the Vultures and Infiltrators just don't have boost.

Is the Infiltrator worth 60 ish?

Front arc only is pretty bad on a large base.

Not sure if it’s agile enough to bring arc to bear, I wish it had blue hards like the Lancer.

Cloak will help, but a Lambda seems like a better deal. I guess this is a combination of support ship and combat ship, but i’m not sure that will mix well.

7 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

[truncated for foolishness]

Bu t then again tie’s aren’t especially strong now anyway.

The Emperor shall hear of this treachery, and your disdain for the backbone of the mighty Imperial Navy! 😡

We can expect the seperatists to be quite... divisive

I'm still hoping the Infiltrator can come out at 50 points (though I'll accept 51 tentatively). The best comparison in my mind is to the Scurrg at 46. What the Infiltrator has over it is a better dial, large base (for the purposes of barrel roll) and slots (which doesn't necessarily have to influence cost). I value the dial improvement at around 2-3 points (based off of the value of the R4 astromech and its contributions to dial quality). Then there's the increase in base size which, judging from the price difference in expert handling, I would again value at 2 points or so. I don't know if slots should be accounted for, but the Infiltrator does have an edge in terms of versatility and the current power level of ordinance.

Would 4 naked Infiltrators be too much?

3 minutes ago, Prosk_019 said:

I'm still hoping the Infiltrator can come out at 50 points (though I'll accept 51 tentatively). The best comparison in my mind is to the Scurrg at 46. What the Infiltrator has over it is a better dial, large base (for the purposes of barrel roll) and slots (which doesn't necessarily have to influence cost). I value the dial improvement at around 2-3 points (based off of the value of the R4 astromech and its contributions to dial quality). Then there's the increase in base size which, judging from the price difference in expert handling, I would again value at 2 points or so. I don't know if slots should be accounted for, but the Infiltrator does have an edge in terms of versatility and the current power level of ordinance.

Would 4 naked Infiltrators be too much?

Hm... I suppose I'd wait until Monday to see if/how much they buff large based ships points-wise to make a judgement. I can't say if four of them would be too much, but how close does any other Large based ship come to 50 points?

14 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Hm... I suppose I'd wait until Monday to see if/how much they buff large based ships points-wise to make a judgement. I can't say if four of them would be too much, but how close does any other Large based ship come to 50 points?

Scum YT-1300 starts at 46 and caps at 54 bare, All of the Lambdas are under 50 pts bare, Contracted Scout is 52 (for what that is worth with the Jumpmaster's dial...), That's what is in the 50 range currently.

7 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

how close does any other Large based ship come to 50 points?

Well, the Infiltrator is one of the few large bases with a pure front arc, which I never realized was so rare until recently

2 hours ago, Prosk_019 said:

Well, the Infiltrator is one of the few large bases with a pure front arc, which I never realized was so rare until recently

Yeah, but it also has turn-arounds and white turns, so it doesn't need multiple arcs as much as less maneuverable ships. Also, Upsilon s are front-arc only, and their cheapest pilot is 56.

man, i still think its way easier to think in 100 pts, i see 63 points and I'm like... a full decimator?? 60% of your list?

The thing which scares/irks me about the Separatists are the Energy Shell Charges. A cheap 2/2/3 ship with only Calculate and not Focus is one thing. Even en masse with rock-waiting shenanigans, I'm not too worried, because of where they'll fit in the damage curve.

Giving them a reload-ish 3-dice missile which doesn't require a lock starts to get scary. There isn't a non-limited ship in the game with 3 red dice less than 34 points. Even squishy, having a lot of 3-dice missiles on an opening volley makes me nervous, and seems almost impossible to balance. If I were making the ships, I wouldn't put missile slots on all the Vulture variants--I'd only have missile slots on the Limited pilots. But I don't really have too much reason to think FFG will be doing that, just my own preference.

//

Sith Infiltrator at 60 points seems high to me. It's a Lambda base and statline on an E-Wing dial. That's OK, but with E-Wings at 43, and Upsilons at 56, having a 60 point Sith Infiltrator seems absurd. Scurrg also seems like an interesting comparison. I can't really see them being more than 51 points, I don't know how they'd think about the 4-per-list math of them. As to cloaking, my guess is that it'll be a limited config or title with a large-ish point cost they intend to be fair. Given how they handled the SF Gunner, I don't think they'll make infiltrators pay for cloaks they haven't equipped.

@theBitterFig the energy shell charges are definitely the most difficult to get a feel on the cost. In direct comparison to Barrage Rockets, you'd figure they have to be cheaper than 6 pts. Then your point and one I thought of as well is how spammable it can be which throws a huge wrench in the points balance for it. It's quite the first turn alpha with that many 3 dice attacks ignoring range.

16 minutes ago, RStan said:

@theBitterFig the energy shell charges are definitely the most difficult to get a feel on the cost. In direct comparison to Barrage Rockets, you'd figure they have to be cheaper than 6 pts. Then your point and one I thought of as well is how spammable it can be which throws a huge wrench in the points balance for it. It's quite the first turn alpha with that many 3 dice attacks ignoring range.

I didn't think to compare them to barrage rockets. I compared them to proton rockets, and thought they were strictly superior and therefore likely to cost 6 pts minimum.

Lots of talk on vultures and the Infiltrator, but what about the bellyrub fighter?

Hopefully there is a non-droid generic pilot with an elite slot.

Do you think it would be worth it to run more than 1?

Will we be able to field 4?

Do you think it will have a secondary weapon slot?

Torpedo and missiles seem unlikely based on the frame, what about a cannon slot?

15 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

Lots of talk on vultures and the Infiltrator, but what about the bellyrub fighter?

Hopefully there is a non-droid generic pilot with an elite slot.

Do you think it would be worth it to run more than 1?

Will we be able to field 4?

Do you think it will have a secondary weapon slot?

Torpedo and missiles seem unlikely based on the frame, what about a cannon slot?

There is an I3 generic Belbullab but we don't know if it has focus or calculate as of right now. A Talent slot is possible and being able to field 4 of them I think is likely.

The I3 generic is the one in the dead middle of the top most spread:

On 1/26/2019 at 3:49 PM, JJ48 said:

Yeah, but it also has turn-arounds and white turns, so it doesn't need multiple arcs as much as less maneuverable ships. Also, Upsilon s are front-arc only, and their cheapest pilot is 56.

They also have 4 dice native and a million health. Not to mention all of their actions.