I don't see the benefit to complicating things beyond just flipping the initiative token over at the end of each round.

Learn to play without a bid.

21 minutes ago, Porkchop Express said:

Learn to play without a bid.

It's a thing that I do quite often, but alas not a solution to the problem as a whole. I do support the idea of alternating initiative.

As nasty as the results are on the table, removing bidding will remove a nice litmus for what combos are too cheap. If a list is effective with a large bid, then it needs to be made more expensive.

get rid of boost and barrel roll completely. Then see what happens.

3 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

get rid of boost and barrel roll completely. Then see what happens.

There's an argument to be made for it. I doubt FFG will pull them from the game, though.

7 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

get rid of boost and barrel roll completely. Then see what happens.

Begun the jousting wars have.

4 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

get rid of boost and barrel roll completely. Then see what happens.

Talk about extreme measures! I’m not sure what the game would look like at that point, but it would be extremely different.

It would definitely make things like barrage bombers far more powerful, and efficiency jousters as well. But you may as well remove Interceptors from the game at that point.

On 1/24/2019 at 3:39 PM, Ablazoned said:

New rule: "During the end phase, the first player may choose to pass the first player token."

Done.

I quite like this solution.

Knowing when to hold onto initiative or pass it will add another interesting layer.

Removing simultaneous fire will incentivise having the token.

Add bid points if the game goes to time.

I've always liked the idea of alternating activations where a PS tie occurs. Example: we each have soontir fel and vader on the table. You've outbid me or won the roll off for initiative, and give initiative to me. Now after dials are set and we've activated all the lower PS pilots, I can move either vader or soontir, I choose vader, he moves and takes his actions. Now YOU must activate one of your PS6's. Then it comes back to me, and then you, and then, if there were any higher PS pilots we would activate them.

I like this option the most because it can still make a bid important, but mirror matches are not won or lost before the game begins. Where a mirror match does occur, it can become more dynamic and interesting.

Thoughts?

On 1/26/2019 at 10:05 AM, MrRip said:

I've always liked the idea of alternating activations where a PS tie occurs. Example: we each have soontir fel and vader on the table. You've outbid me or won the roll off for initiative, and give initiative to me. Now after dials are set and we've activated all the lower PS pilots, I can move either vader or soontir, I choose vader, he moves and takes his actions. Now YOU must activate one of your PS6's. Then it comes back to me, and then you, and then, if there were any higher PS pilots we would activate them.

I like this option the most because it can still make a bid important, but mirror matches are not won or lost before the game begins. Where a mirror match does occur, it can become more dynamic and interesting.

Thoughts?

I’ve loved games that have alternating activations because it keeps all the players in the game (China Town by Stone Circle Games was my first system to use it) but I feel that the current initiative system does that enough. If being the first player in the round alternates, I’d much rather it do so on a dice roll like 2 reds for the player with the bigger bid and 1 red for the other player - winner chooses to go first or not.

After reading lots of ideas on bids and thinking on it quite a bit, I really like bid points counting toward MOV for one’s opponent. It encourages aggressive play among big bidders rather than popping a ship and running for the rest of the game or simply fortressing.

others have said it but first player should be random. then bid war goes away entirely.

if youre list is dependent on innitiative to win then its probably WAAC nonsense anyway

Your unused points are considered destroyed points if the game goes to time and your opponent still has at least one ship on the board.

That way if you table your opposition you can still win 200-0, but you can't just run away and not give up something to them.

On 1/24/2019 at 10:39 AM, Ablazoned said:

New rule: "During the end phase, the first player may choose to pass the first player token."

Done.

I'm missing something - absent any other rule changes, why would anyone voluntarily give up being the first player?

1 minute ago, Freeptop said:

I'm missing something - absent any other rule changes, why would anyone voluntarily give up being the first player?

Being second player gives them the ability to perform actions while taking into account what their opponent's ships of the same init have done that round. It aids allot in arc dodging and planning for the engagement phase.

7 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Being  second player gives them the ability to perform actions while taking into account what their opponent's ships of the same init have done that  round. It aids allot in  arc dodging and planning for the engagement phase.

And more generally, it's almost always better to have more information when you do X after your opponent does X, for example, how to spend tokens during your attack.

There are some exceptions like juke and something like palob/0-0-0 vs Vader or nien's ability. Also blocking is easier with first player. However, we're in an ace-heavy and ordnance-heavy meta where moving second is always preferred.

Just make the bid winner automatically player 1... bids will be eliminated.

1 hour ago, hawk32 said:

Just make the bid winner automatically player 1... bids will be eliminated.

There's no real reason to do that. Since bids would, in fact, be eliminated, just skip the middle step and say random player gets First Player . (Not choice of First Player. Just First Player. Period.)

I honestly think this is the best solution. I suggested it a couple of months back on the Mynock page.

Before game, you can bid for init. Helps for first engagement, etc.

During game, before planning phase, the losing players gets choice for init.

So once the big bidder does at least half points on a single ship, he could get passed the first player token, making him now move first, until the other player is in the lead, then he can have it back.

Good players can keep the lead moving second. And losing the bid or dice roll in a mirror match doesnt automatically screw you over.

35 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There's no real reason to do that. Since bids would, in fact, be eliminated, just skip the middle step and say random player gets First Player . (Not choice of First Player. Just First Player. Period.)

I honestly think this is the best solution. I suggested it a couple of months back on the Mynock page.

"there is no reason to do this thing that I think should be done."

10 minutes ago, hawk32 said:

"there is no reason to do this thing that I think should be done."

... Wut?