Fresh from FFG today:

Ghost -- House Stark -- unique x1

3 Gold, 3 STR MIL

Creature, Direwolf

No Attachments. Stealth. Any Phase: Return Ghost to his owner's hand.

Borderland Keep -- House Stark -- Location x3

1 gold -- Westeros, the North

House Stark Only. Response: Discard Borderland Keep from play (cannot be saved) to cancel 1 effect triggered during a MIL challenge

Ser Balon Swann -- Lannister -- Unique X1

3 gold, 3 Str, MIL, INT

Knight, Kingsguard

No Attachments except Weapon. You may declare Ser Balon Swann as the defender of an INT challenge against you even if he is already kneeling.

Misinformation -- Event x3

House Lannister Only

Response: If an opponent would win an INT challenge against you, cancel the determination of challenge winner. You automatically win the challenge.

Acolyte of the Flame -- Baratheon x3

2 Gold 2 Str INT POW HOLY

Asshai, Ally

Acolyte of the Flame gets +1 STR while it is standing.

Eastwatch by the Sea -- Baratheon -- Unique -- x1

1 Gold

The North

Response: After an opponent reveals a plot card, move 1 power from a character in play to its controllers House card.

Mercenaries From Pyke -- Greyjoy x3

2 gold 4 STR MIL POW

Ironbonr, Mercenary

Stealth At the beginning of the dominance phase, pay 2 gold or discard Mercenaries from Pyke from play

Pulled Under -- Greyjoy -- Attachment x1

3 gold, condition

At the end of the dominance phase, return Pulled Under and attached character to the bottom of their owners' decks.

Green Hatchling -- Targ -- Unique x1

1 gold 2 STR MIL

Creatue, Dragon

No attachments. Discard Green Hatchling from play any time you control Rhaegal. Green Hatchling gains an INT icon during INT challenges initiated against you.

The Dragon's Fire -- event -- Houe Targ Only -- x1

Challenges: Choose 1 dragon character. Until the end of the phase, that character gains "while this character is attacking, defending characters get -1 STR and are killed if their STR=0."

Starfall Advisor -- Martell -- x3

3 Gold 2 STR INT POW

House Dayne

Starfall ADvisor comes into play with 2 gold tokens from the treasury on him. Response: Discard 1 gold token from Starfall Advisor to cancel 1 event card or character ability that chooses a House Dayne character as a target.

Scorpions Underfoot -- Event -- Martell Only x3

Any Phase: Kneel 3 influence to choose 3 characters. Until the end f the phase, one of those characters loses a MIL icon, the second loses an INT icon, and the third loses a POW icon.

Dolorous Edd -- neutral -- Unique x1

3 gold 1 STR no icons LEARNED

Night's Watch

no attachments. Increase your draw cap by 1 for each The North agenda you are running.

Recruiter for the Watch -- neutral -- x3

2 gold 1 STR no icon

Night's Watch, Ally

No Attachments. Any Phase: Kneel Recruiter for the Watch to choose a character. Until the end of the phase, that character gains the Night's Watch trait.

The Shadow Tower -- neutral -- unique x1

the North

Challenges: Kneel The Shadow Tower to add 2 to your total STR during any challenge in which you control at least 1 participating Night's Watch character.

The Wildling Horde -- neutral x3

7 Gold 8 STR MIL POW WAR

Wildling, Army

No Attachments. Deadly. Reduce the cost to play The WIldling Horde by 1 for each The North Agenda you are running.

Wildling Wisewoman -- neutral x3

3 gold 2 STR INT POW LEARNED

Wildling

Reponse: Kneel Wildling Wisewoman to cancel 1 card effect that wuld allow an opponent to draw 1 or more cards.

frostfang Peaks -- Neutral x3

1 gold

The North

Response: After you reveal a plot card, discard the top card of each opponent's deck (Discard the top 2 instead if it is Winter).

the LAst Giant -- Agenda -- Unique x1

The North, etc.

Wildling charactrer you control get +1 STR.

Valar Dohaeris -- Plot -- 3-0-1 X1

At the end of the Dominance Phase, discard all standing characters from play (cannot be saved).

Changes maked in BOLD. Sorry folks.

How much does Borderland Keep cost?

Rozy said:

1.

Some keywords are missing too.

Hope I fixed them all. Changes/updates are in BOLD.

Sorry.

JerusalemJones said:

Thanks for posting this! How do you edit a post in general?

Thanks for the spoiler JJ!

Thanks, JJ. Some nice cards there. How much does The Shadow Tower cost? Starfall Advisor seems like it could be a pretty nice card in a deck with Starfall, and the Green Hatchling seems like a pretty efficient weenie for Targ (though I wish it had ambush : ) ).

Visual spoilers stolen to spanish guys :-)

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the hatchlings (if the trend continues) are going to be really nice for targ especially coupled with the dragon burn event and dragon bite.

Eastwatch by the sea might make it an easier choice to use new mel over CS mel

pulled under is gross

valar Dohaeris provides an interesting take on a reset (now you can have up to 6 resets in a plot deck........)

The guy that cancels draw is interesting, but not sure if he just fuels lanni mirror matches (though i'm liking my lanni MWnK deck more and more)

couple of questions. why is a military challenge worth 2 influence (starks cancel you win event) and an intrigue challenge is free (lanni's cancel you win event?) seriously?!?

wilding wisewomen says "cancel 1 card effect" that get plots too?

Lars said:

I saw that too with the events Lars. Maybe they don't want Stark to have too easy of a indirect kill/save card? Either way, Lanni should have to kneel 2 influence as well in my opinion.

Wildling Wisewoman would be able to cancel a plot such as Counting Favors. Extra draw from other cards such as the Summer or Winter Agendas when it's Summer can be canceled as well.

Also, Pulled Under is really nasty. Thank the Seven that Compelled by the Rock was banned. Paying 3 gold to have one of my characters leave play....urggh...

I can totally agree that Feigned Retreat needs a cost as opposed to Misinformation. Stark can use Feigned Retreat to automatically win a 2 Claim military challenge which can easily be bumped up to 3 with Winter is Coming. Strong enough in its own right, and probably stronger by itself than automatically winning a 2-claim INT challenge. In addition, Stark has a few good Renown characters who wouldn't mind an easy win, where Lannister plays very few renown characters (often Shadows Tyrion is the only one with an INT icon).

But most of all, Misinformation is barely going to see play, if at all, with no influence cost, given Lannister's wealth of better options. Would you run this over I'm You Writ Small, You Killed the Wrong Dwarf, Condemned by the Council, A Lannister Pays His Debts, or Distracted? After working in a few of those, Misinformation will be hard pressed to find a place in a deck.

Lannister has gotten some breaks in the past, but this isn't one of them.

FATMOUSE said:

The effects of an Agenda card cannot be canceled.

longclaw said:

see i don't like that rationale. a 2 claim int challenge can be just as nasty as a 2 claim mil challenge. stark has a lot of comeptetive event slots as well, yet in order to run this one they have to add in more influence....i just don't like adding costs to one challenge over another, especially on the grounds that it a few people thing it won't see play....let someone think outside of the box or down the road a whole new agenda, crest, or character comes along that keys off int challenges....

Lars said:

In fact, with draw being what it is you'd think that non-Lannisters would be more devastated by losing their hand than losing their characters.

However, from a practical side, I will say that the cost differential doesn't phase me because, in my opinion, people generally try harder (ie, commit more resources) to win military challenges than intrigue, especially on defense. Let's say you look at the board and know that you can stop your attacking opponent from winning a military challenge or an intrigue challenge, but not both. Which one are you more likely to choose? Obviously it's situational, but in general, people will choose to stop the military challenge and let the intrigue through. In that regard, winning the military challenge automatically is likely more devastating to your opponent because he "paid more" in the fruitless attempt to win it. To me, that's the reason for the cost differential - not the challenge result.

It's also worth noting that when you add Ahead of the Tide and Compelled by the King to these comparisons, it looks more like Stark is the odd-man-out since those "cancel and automatically win" events don't have influence costs, either. In that regard, it looks like Stark gets penalized, not that Lannister receives a gift.

Rogue30 said:

I stand corrected. Thanks.

ktom said:

I wasn't trying to frame the discussion in lanni gets a bonus. I really just don't like that one challenge has a cost andanother doesn't (i can't imagine what the cost for a power challenge would be now..). i'd be fine if challenges had a cost and things outside of challenges didn't have a cost, but why make a differential withing the challenge phase?

ktom said:

i dunno, so many claim soak characters are in the game that I often leave military challenges unopposed and try a lot harder to protect my hand. If i have desperet looters, cersi's attenedent, dany's handmadien, etc.and etc. i generally don;t care about claim on a mil challenge.

Lars said:

~ And thanks for that "if I have..." confirmation that it is, indeed, situational.

Characters can die so hard and fast these days that it isn't always a guarantee that you'll have claim soak characters available. I'm sure it's meta specific, but in the absence of said characters and in my experience, people are generally far more protective of their characters on the table than cards in their hand when they can only save one.

I can understand that about claim soak, now more than ever, Lars. But I don't think it's a bad thing to have different costs in a cycle, even if it does seem unfair on the surface. Whether or not a 2-claim MIL or INT is worse is quite situational, but Lannister doesn't need Misinformation in any way. They are just going to kneel your INT icons and get an UO if they want to win a 2-claim INT. Stark doesn't have the luxury of that much control, so Feigned Retreat is a solid effect for them, and it's already seeing play (in a tournament-winning deck in Italy, to boot). Maybe we should ask the Stark players over there if they are ok with the 2 influence...

well if we are going with situational. what situation is better?

stark on lanni:

stark play plays FR w/ 2 claim and winter is coming kills 3 people, lanni valars opps 3 people loss no longer a concern.

Lanni plays this w/ 2 claim and gets 2 cards (pick them) then plays valar.....

lanni on lanni

lanni plays this defensively to protect their hand then plays valar

lanni on targ

lanni plays this to get jumpers out of targs hand

lanni on martell

lanni plays this w/ fury out to kneel, remove taste for blood, and all power on the red viper

lanni on gj

lanni plays this to get risen and to be a kraken

longclaw said:

so you say, so you say in the current environment. so you say without trying to build a deck that features it. its like saying whats wrong with allowing Iran to have nucelar power plants, if they wanted to kill people they could do so a million other ways.

longclaw said:

Stark doesn't have the luxury of that much control, so Feigned Retreat is a solid effect for them, and it's already seeing play (in a tournament-winning deck in Italy, to boot). Maybe we should ask the Stark players over there if they are ok with the 2 influence...

so what you are saying is that the extra cost is given to the house that doesn't have has much control? how does that make sense. Its not about if or can a house absorb the extra costs it is that there is an extra cost on a challenge. it doesn't cost more to initiate. Again, I don't get the argument that it sees play so it needs an extra cost.

Acolyte of the Flame seems like a decent 2G non-unique character for Bara, which has woefully few. The passive ability gives it some good protection from burn effects, but too bad it's not printed 3STR with a -1STR passive effect when knelt, to insulate against Venomous Blade.

In the abstract, I'd say the military challenge is the strongest of the three and power is the weakest. Barring a deck full of 0-cost guys, military claim is always going to cost more than intrigue claim (character card plus the gold to play it versus just the card), while power claim is going to have little effect (often none) early in the game. As ktom has said things are situational (you may really want to hold on to a key card in your hand, but a useless refugee or Maester Wendamyr in play to pay for military claim; also, the presence of cards like Seductive Promise and Support of the Kingdom boost power challenges), but I think it's understandable that the military effect could cost more than the intrigue version.

I vaguely recall a long debate back in aught-five (2005) about the relative power of the three challenges by doctorofstyle. The intrigue challenge was especially strong early on because of how it attacks the opponents' hands before he or she sets up in the game. However, as the game progresses and the hand becomes depleted, then attacking the hand in the intrigue challenge was too late since the cards were generally already played. I believe that the argument was that the military challenge had a unchanging, mid-level power level throughout the game. Its strong to get a card killed through claim, but the power was mitigated because (a) claim soak, and (b) some characters have their effect either by coming into play or going out of play.

On the other hand, the power challenge was the opposite of the intrigue challenge. It starts off weak since the opponent doesn't have power on his or her house card, or you are far away from the win condition. Yet, as the game progresses, the more power on your opponents' house card gets you closer to the win or helps you delay your opponents win.

Hence, the argument eventually lead to the simplified conclusion that the reason Stark was behind in the power curve was because its main challenge (the military challenge) was mid level throughout a game. This ignored the fact that many Stark characters also have power icons, and thus, should be better in the mid-to-late game.

Obviously there was much debate about the proposition back then. (And my memory could be off too on how it played out, though I tend to take the above to heart and gave up on House Stark and joined the lion/sun).

I also agree with Lars. The other auto-win events require no influence cost. House Stark's should not require any influence either. Hopefully the extra cost will be balanced out by the power level of Lords of Winter cards, though I doubt it would be enough to make House Stark b0rken.

I actually think the military event is much stronger than the intrigue event. Unless it's a 2-claim challenge, the Lanni event basically says "if you lose an intrigue challenge as the defender, choose and discard the crappiest card in your hand rather than discarding at random." In a house that draws a lot of cards and doesn't have a lot of renown, this isn't all that useful. Of course a 2-claim plot changes things, but if that's what we're basing our assessment of a card on, it means the Lanni player will hold events in hand for the vast majority of every game, waiting for the opponent to play a 2-claim plot. (I'm pretty sure most Lanni players would just have another kneel effect in their hand to prevent the opponent from winning the challenge in the first place. I don't play Lanni decks much though, so I could be wrong.)

Also, I think Stark's effect can be pretty strong post-Valar. Let's say I play Valar and save my Maester Aemon. I don't draw any more characters and my opponent plays a 1-claim (or even 2-claim) plot and drops a carrion bird thinking he'll FINALLY kill Aemon, who's been giving him trouble. My maester is knelt out, so I can't save him. It's nice to be able to cancel the claim, and I think this type of situation is common enough (at least in the games I've played). Though something similar might happen with intrigue challenges, for some reason it really doesn't feel like the same thing to me: To win a game, you need characters on the board...not necessarily cards in hand.

ok lets look at this situation (which the game is made up of a multitude of different situations), which has nothing to do with claim.

Stark is playing Greyjoy, they are about to lose a Military challenge while GJ has their fury out....now in order to cancel it they need a card in hand (with no current draw and weak on intrigue to protect it) and two influence in play.....

Lanni, meanwhile is playing Martell. they are about to lose an Intrigue challenge and have Tyrion in play with lets say a dupe. In order to cancel it all they need is a card in hand....

lets go back to the King reduced armies. Martell's is one of the weakest of not the weakest, why isn't it 6 gold reduced by 3?

why dosen't fury of the lion provide 8 intitative?

is winning initative always equal to winning domience? hardly, yet they cost the same.

Twn2nd with enough resets, shadows agenda, and a couple of iron thorne's and the domience winning event bara might be able to win the game without a character (don't argue this its hyperbole used to make a point). The point is that there will always be a situation that someone hasn't thought of and once you start changing the costs of a cycle based on assumptions about what situations will and won't be there, especially those that you don't foresee. you will create an unbalanced cycle without justification. Its how cards get abused later or in ways that people overlook. If you only focus on claim then maybe the cost makes sense (i don;t think it does but hey whatever), however this card isn't limited to claim, a guess it means that R&D is now locked into making weak or no things to trigger off of Intrigue wins as they are now cheaper then military wins, but if R&D wants to paint itself into corners i guess I have to watch them do it.

If stark winning a military was so strong then don't give it a cost, don't give it at all. let them win a power challenge for free instead (especially since you need to win military challenges to win the game apparently.......).

slightly off topic, but go through a game and never win a military challenge, you'll find you still have a decent shot at winning the game. Intrigue and military challenges are the same beast, just with a slightly different emphasis (military hits things in play, intrigue prevents/delays things from being played). My view - 4 plots that hit characters in play, 1 that hits hand. I can focus plots on in play and go after hand in challenges.