1 hour ago, Okapi said:

Homing Missiles, Barrage Rockets and Proton Rockets regularly see play.

Both Barrage Rockets and Proton Rockets effectively have Deadeye built in though, it's worth noting. I suspect we're going to see more Attack (focus) missiles as time goes on, with Energy-Shell Charges being a fine example.

I've played around with Concussions Missiles a fair bit, and I've found them to be the best of the currently available missiles, but they still feel a bit too expensive and you really notice that lock requirement on a low to mid Initiative carrier. They're interesting on the generic TIE/SFs, but mostly because they can be paired with another ship with Targeting Synchroniser.

I'd be pretty happy if they made Attack (focus) the thing that distinguishes missiles from torpedoes, but keep them capped at a maximum of three attack dice. That way they're not really much more of an alpha strike than a standard 3 dice primary.

Guess what, if Proton Torpedoes go up in points next week, you won’t have to worry about Missiles. They’ll see plenty of play. We already see Proton Rockets, Cluster and Homing missiles, and Deadeye is basically built into Proton Rockets. I think this discussion is actually more about the underlying issue of Torpedoes (specifically Proton Torpedoes) than it is about Missiles.

Missiles see plenty of play, problem is Proton Torpedoes are the better choice in every way, right now.

4 hours ago, spamdex said:

Why not just bring back long range scanners?

The issue with long range scanners is that it creates an action advantage while deadeye is just an action substitution. Also, LRS creates a benefit that is useful even when not using missiles, so it has a greater risk of introducing unintended consequences.

1 minute ago, Transmogrifier said:

The issue with long range scanners is that it creates an action advantage while deadeye is just an action substitution. Also, LRS creates a benefit that is useful even when not using missiles, so it has a greater risk of introducing unintended consequences. 

I'd be in for some kind of one time use mod that was basically LRS available to generic pilots. It'd be a small boost to a weak chassis like the Advanced X/V that want it for ordinance or built in ability. I'd maybe update the wording to say something alone the lines of "you may not remove this lock until the enemy ship is destroyed" as sort of a way to balance heavy alpha's with a pile of generics. That way you aren't double modding results.

22 minutes ago, viedit said:

I'd be in for some kind of one time use mod that was basically LRS available to generic pilots. It'd be a small boost to a weak chassis like the Advanced X/V that want it for ordinance or built in ability. I'd maybe update the wording to say something alone the lines of "you may not remove this lock until the enemy ship is destroyed" as sort of a way to balance heavy alpha's with a pile of generics. That way you aren't double modding results.

Those chasses aren't weak though, they're just slightly (v1) to moderately (x1) overpriced. Drop one by 1-2 and the other by 2-3 and they're fine.

I disagree with the premise that points can solve the fundamental issue here: missiles aren’t very useful because locks are hard to acquire below I5 and the opportunity cost of spending an action to take a lock often means taking more damage (before getting a chance to shoot), offsetting the usefulness of the missile’s effect (which are fairly weak as far as ordnance goes). Basically, the core functionality is the issue, so making it cheaper still doesnt make it a good option for most platforms - it would just make missiles better on the few platforms that can mitigate the functionality issues.

9 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I disagree with the premise that points can solve the fundamental issue here: missiles aren’t very useful because locks are hard to acquire below I5 and the opportunity cost of spending an action to take a lock often means taking more damage (before getting a chance to shoot), offsetting the usefulness of the missile’s effect (which are fairly weak as far as ordnance goes). Basically, the core functionality is the issue, so making it cheaper still doesnt make it a good option for most platforms - it would just make missiles better on the few platforms that can mitigate the functionality issues.

Agree. The problem the Advance X/V have is action economy where the TL is not part of a linked action. If you hop into range to grab a TL you are doing it at risk of no defensive modifier. And that's the issue with so many of them. It's one part initiative, one part economy. Neither of which is solved by points.

5 hours ago, spamdex said:

Why not just bring back long range scanners?

Simple, effective

With 2.0 ffg lost the great opportunoty to create someting in which the lower init pilots are better than higher and that becomes worst growing up with initiative.

Make bump the other player is not enough

13 minutes ago, viedit said:

Agree. The problem the Advance X/V have is action economy where the TL is not part of a linked action. If you hop into range to grab a TL you are doing it at risk of no defensive modifier. And that's the issue with so many of them. It's one part initiative, one part economy. Neither of which is solved by points.

The lock doesn't disappear in the end phase though, and with FCS you might as well keep it until your target dies. Unless you have Jendon around, you can't really joust with low initiative v1s and x1s. Once the fighting is on, while you can't predict exactly where Fenn Rau or Soontir Fel will go, you can generelly tell where they can't go. Do that 1-bank or 5-straight or whatever, grab the lock, and either get out of there and come back for a pass with your improved targeting, or try to knife fight. Make not getting shot your first priority, and shooting your second, and try to keep that ace busy while your other generic hits them in the back. One I3 Inquisitor isn't likely to kill Fenn Rau, but two? I'd put my money on the Empire player, if he's any good at all.

19 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Honest question: Do people really like the munitions alpha strike game?

I really don't. I don't think it makes for an interesting game when it tilts the game so heavily in the opening salvo. Obviously I'm just one voice in the crowd here, but is this what people want?

Hopefully, torps are going up on Monday. Munitions alpha strikes are simply oppressive and dull.

The TIE Adv needs something different besides spending extra points on an EPT (however cheap) and then a missile.

It has a fundamental flaw in the TL requirement for the extra dice. The fact that it is a Hyperspace ship and that the other HS Imp ships are only decent at best is maddening.

What about a modification (cost to be determined)

Rapid fire missiles

(Spend two charges to ignore attack lock, against a target at range two)

The range restriction and one off use could be enough to prevent it getting out of hand and it's accessible to generics.

I could see it as a mod with a scaling cost based on init, and the ability

At the start of combat you may spend a focus token, if you do ignore all "attack:" requirements for secondary weapons this phase.

Reason why I went with the spend a focus was to try to keep with 2.0 idea of no free lunch as well as curbs possible low ps missile/top spam with mods.

16 hours ago, spamdex said:

Why not just bring back long range scanners?

LRS was never that good, simply because of Arc Dodgers and how a target lock action would telegraph your intentions. If you used LRS to lock onto Soontir Fell, you will never get him in range and in arc as that ship will fly all over the map in the mean time every other TIE would be in your face at range 1 and 2 melting it away with laser cannon fire.

How about this.

Modification - Missile Surge Board

When you engage if you have 2 or more charges on an equipped missile you may spend all of its charges to attack with that missile ignoring the attack target lock requirement. If you do - roll a red die if it is a hit or a crit suffer that damage.

I know - it would break something!!!

15 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

LRS was never that good, simply because of Arc Dodgers and how a target lock action would telegraph your intentions. If you used LRS to lock onto Soontir Fell, you will never get him in range and in arc as that ship will fly all over the map in the mean time every other TIE would be in your face at range 1 and 2 melting it away with laser cannon fire.

Harpoon gunboats in mass would disagree. There's only so many arcs you are dodging. Especially if you had a ps11 QD on the prowl.

2 hours ago, viedit said:

Harpoon gunboats in mass would disagree. There's only so many arcs you are dodging. Especially if you had a ps11 QD on the prowl.

Well both Gunboats and harpoons were good in general. But LRS was sort of like Deadeye, only under the right conditions by powerful platforms would it be effective.