13 minutes ago, Gengis Jon said:

You are correct, with spotter Veers gives one aim token to two units.

The point that may be missed is that each of those two units can then also take an aim before attacking, at which point they’d both have two aims. Then, by way of the card effects, they’d pass each of their two aims on to the next trooper units in the chain. And then both of those could take aims, giving them each a total of three before their attacks. And so on.

Well, it would be more "efficient" to pass both of the aims from "Spotter Target A" to "Spotter Target B," giving B four Aim tokens to pass on.

15 minutes ago, Gengis Jon said:

You are correct, with spotter Veers gives one aim token to two units.

The point that may be missed is that each of those two units can then also take an aim before attacking, at which point they’d both have two aims. Then, by way of the card effects, they’d pass each of their two aims on to the next trooper units in the chain. And then both of those could take aims, giving them each a total of three before their attacks. And so on.

You can even pass the two aims from #1 (who has one from aiming and one from spotter) to #2, who will end up with four (two from #1, one from spotter and one from aiming), and then add those four on to Storm #3, who aims to make it five, and so on.

The ceiling can be disrupted if all your corps units are suppressed, but it is still three aims per storm after the first in the scenario (17 total), since it will be very difficult to suppress the first unit in the chain.

Theory crafting fun aside, once you get to some number of aims — let’s say three or four — doesn’t make more tactical sense for the receiving units to start taking dodges instead... or moving, or whatever.

Of course it does... this is just theorycrafting

1 hour ago, Gengis Jon said:

Theory crafting fun aside, once you get to some number of aims — let’s say three or four — doesn’t make more tactical sense for the receiving units to start taking dodges instead... or moving, or whatever.

Yeah, 3-4 aims per unit is generally going to be enough to max out your hits, so you can certainly do some dodging or moving (or just attacking while suppressed) in there somewhere.

I’m just trying to discuss what’s possible, while also highlighting that the “floor” for this interaction is also extremely high.

48 minutes ago, Orkimedes said:

Yeah, 3-4 aims per unit is generally going to be enough to max out your hits, so you can certainly do some dodging or moving (or just attacking while suppressed) in there somewhere.

I’m just trying to discuss what’s possible, while also highlighting that the “floor” for this interaction is also extremely high.

Of course, I was just trying to put a number on where diminishing returns kicks in with this in my own head.

Regardless, this clearly feels like a game breaker. All the more so when you take this 3 or 4 aim tipping point into account.

I can’t help but wonder if the game devs took all this into account or if this was somehow missed in play testing. Either way, if it’s as game breaking as it seems to be I hope they take corrective action quickly.

Floor is much lower if the chain gets broken. Also getting a ton of aim tokens doesn't guarantee you targets to use them on. You're playing a 3 pip so I get the first move (maybe more with leia) if I played anything but another 3 pip and could break LOS with my most important unit etc, then with another unit after the first DLT squad shoots etc.

The whole sky is falling attitude based on some half baked theory crafting without even playing the card is getting tiresome. People are acting like it should be errata'd before it even gets played. I don't think it's going to quite have the impact people think. Is it a good command card? Yeah. Is it above the curve? Probably. Is it better than some of the other powerful command cards? I don't think so. If Veers had an actual good command hand people wouldn't care as much about this, but his 2 and 3 pips are just not any good for most lists

I Like how Imperial players downplay this card’s effectiveness.

Perhaps the Rebel player’s are exaggerating the card’s effectiveness, but not as much as you think.

Just to present the text again:

“After a friendly corps unit spends an aim token, another friendly unit at range 1-2 may gain 1 Aim token.”

So after a corps unit spends an Aim any corps unit in range 1-2 of the unit spending the Aim (not the unit that started this Aim extravaganza) gains an Aim.

At the very least this should be a cascade that gives all units a minimum of 2 Aim tokens, if you have one unit that has 2 actions to get the ball rolling. It gets way worse if you have Veers or more units with 2 actions. It’s also important to remember that with each aim token the imperial player can reroll two dice (three if precise). This is not X-wing, you can reroll dice multiple times. Make automatic hits, is sounding more likely.

Lets compare this to the Rebel version that some imperial players complained was way too powerful.

“After a friendly corps unit performs a ranged attack, another friendly unit at range 1-2 may gain 1 dodge token.”

So the maximum dodge tokens any one unit can provide is 1. If a unit has 2 dodge tokens, it still only can provide only 1. This card is waaaaaay more situational. Not only does a given unit have to have an enemy unit to attack, it also has to be in range 1-2 of the friendly unit to pass a dodge to it. So far it’s the same as the imperial version, but there’s more. The Rebel unit’s new found bounty (the dodge) is only useful if that unit is attacked. So if the imperial player decides to attack only AT-RT’s this round, the Rebel card’s effectiveness is reduced. Even if the imperial player doesn’t do that, the Rebel player only has 1 extra dodge per unit that could do an attack. If the Rebel got all 6 of those extra dodge tokens, even with the Nimble key word, it only effects 1 hit each for each unit.

If these cards are played at the same time, the Rebel units will not last long with their white defense dice and 1 extra dodge.

Sorry, but it seems like the Imperial card is very broken. It reminds me of the JumpMaster from X-Wing, broken before it hits the table, but several people kept arguing its merits. I could be wrong, but the initial look does not look good.

Just my 2 cents.

I wonder if this is all just a misprint and it’s why they have been delaying the article as long as they did.

i wonder if the card should read: “After a friendly corps unit performs a ranged attack, another friendly unit at range 1-2 may gain 1 Aim token.”

21 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

I wonder if this is all just a misprint and it’s why they have been delaying the article as long as they did.

i wonder if the card should read: “After a friendly corps unit performs a ranged attack, another friendly unit at range 1-2 may gain 1 Aim token.”

I would think the wording should be "one or more aim tokens" if there is a misprint.

Im waiting to see how it plays, but my hunch is its broken. Even a less optimal use is going to give out aims for africa.

On 1/23/2019 at 4:48 PM, JediPartisan said:

I wonder if this is all just a misprint and it’s why they have been delaying the article as long as they did.

i wonder if the card should read: “After a friendly corps unit performs a ranged attack, another friendly unit at range 1-2 may gain 1 Aim token.”

It seems clear that’s what it should say. That would fix both the aggressive scaling and the fact that you could use it in melee.

The latter wouldn’t have much of a balance impact, but being able to Coorindated Punch certainly feels weird thematically.

Crabbok recently did a battle report video where he used the Coordinated Fire card and while he was able to hand out a number of aim tokens, but no where near what people are theorizing about being able to achieve here. In order to reach that level of aim token stacking, you first need a rather specific list (Veers plus 6 Corps) and then will have to maneuver them in the game to get have everyone in position for the chain to work. There are so many variables that can go wrong for you (like others have said, a unit in the chain could be suppressed, or the opposing player could focus on the middle of the chain and break it by taking out a unit or two, the lack of targets later down the chain, etc). Sure it is possible to achieve a crazy result with this card, but it likely will be rare.

As for the new Rebel 3-pip, yeah, it does not allow for an increasing chain of Dodge tokens like the Imperial one does with Aims, but it is still possible to achieve some stacking with it. If you have 6 Rebel Trooper units, they could all fire and give each other Dodge tokens (if positioned right). If any get shot at and spend a Dodge token, Nimble gives them one right back. So, in theory the 6 Corps could hand out 6 Dodge tokens and earn back 6 by spending them. Of course, if any additional attacks are made against those units, that would potentially be more dodge tokens spent and earned back. Sure this may not be as much stacking as the Empire can achieve, but still can be over a dozen Dodge tokens handed out.

2 hours ago, Thevshi said:

Crabbok recently did a battle report video where he used the Coordinated Fire card and while he was able to hand out a number of aim tokens, but no where near what people are theorizing about being able to achieve here. In order to reach that level of aim token stacking, you first need a rather specific list (Veers plus 6 Corps) and then will have to maneuver them in the game to get have everyone in position for the chain to work. There are so many variables that can go wrong for you (like others have said, a unit in the chain could be suppressed, or the opposing player could focus on the middle of the chain and break it by taking out a unit or two, the lack of targets later down the chain, etc). Sure it is possible to achieve a crazy result with this card, but it likely will be rare.

...

Well, Orkimedes already said that maxing out the stacking effect doesn't make much sense. He just wanted to highlight the mechanics itself.

2 to 4 aim tokens are usually enough to get more or less the max number of hits, and it is very possible to pass that many on with this card.

Even more important, at the end of the chain you can pass all aim tokens to non-corps units as well. That is very powerful for everything with surge to crit.

E-Webs will get a serious boost with that 3pip (and also the 2pip, which is a hard counter to a lot of stuff like "Reckless Diversion", New ways to motivate them or many lists with a variety of unit ranks).

I suspect that card will be adressed with the next Errata.

I don't think it will - as mentioned above, Rebels can create near-immortal units with their 3 -pip, it only makes sense that the imperial have a card that can generate enough accuracy to get through all those Ddge tokens.

56 minutes ago, costi said:

I don't think it will - as mentioned above, Rebels can create near-immortal units with their 3 -pip, it only makes sense that the imperial have a card that can generate enough accuracy to get through all those Ddge tokens.

One (or even 2) dodge tokens does not make antything close to a "near immortal" unit.

Crabbock wasn't trying to max out the chain, he was in fact playing the card for the very first time. That's hardly a ringing endorsement for an obvious mistake/misprint. The fact that he didn't abuse it doesn't mean it can't be abused.

Veers and 6 corps was a pretty common list a month ago

The one time I've tried it, I passed off 3-4 aim tokens by the time it was done. Obviously didn't play it right.

That said, anyone have a BatRep that shows the mythical 32 aim tokens being handed out in an actual game?

16 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

The one time I've tried it, I passed off 3-4 aim tokens by the time it was done. Obviously didn't play it right.

That said, anyone have a BatRep that shows the mythical 32 aim tokens being handed out in an actual game?

The only way to stop or slow it, is to hit the units next to the one that 's about to pass with 2 weapons (split fire, which is usually less effective) so they both get suppressed (hopefully), then you just slow it down, the opponent passing could just go to the left instead of to the right. 80% of an army is usually within range 1-2 of itself

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

The one time I've tried it, I passed off 3-4 aim tokens by the time it was done. Obviously didn't play it right.

That said, anyone have a BatRep that shows the mythical 32 aim tokens being handed out in an actual game?

You should have three aims after your first corps unit.

Comms relay an order to Veers, use spotter on two Storms (or Snows). Activate those two storms back to back (aiming with at least the first one) and pass aims from one to the other, and then down the line.

If you want some extra insurance, give one of those units an officer upgrade. With an officer it is nearly impossible to prevent an aim action on your initial corps unit, even if your opponent splits fire to suppress, and then you should have a three token stack on your second corps unit before it goes.

Although 32 aims is amusing, it isn’t realistic or necessary. 3 aims per unit is usually going to be enough for max hits, so your second and onward corps units can do stuff besides aiming, if you want.

I think the card is strong but not busted outside of trying to abuse it with the Veers/comms relay interaction.

I also like that this card actually requires you to think about ordering your corps units. I feel like 90% of the time I use all my order tokens on my commander, support, special forces or heavy and then have a stack of corps tokens in my 'random' pile.

So, was thinking about this some more over the weekend. One thought I had, was that a Rebel player playing Han would potentially be able to time using Change of Plans to delay the use of this card and get another round to try to disrupt the full effectiveness of the chain. Certainly could be one good counter for trying this.

Another thought was that in a mirror match, you could have competing Coordinated Fire chains and make it look more like a Civil War reenactment rather than a Star Wars battle.

2 hours ago, Thevshi said:

So, was thinking about this some more over the weekend. One thought I had, was that a Rebel player playing Han would potentially be able to time using Change of Plans to delay the use of this card and get another round to try to disrupt the full effectiveness of the chain. Certainly could be one good counter for trying this.

Another thought was that in a mirror match, you could have competing Coordinated Fire chains and make it look more like a Civil War reenactment rather than a Star Wars battle.

Pin them Down is also a decent counter. You can shoot at Veers before he activates to disrupt the efficiency of the aim chain and force him to (hopefully) go later in the round

1 hour ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Pin them Down is also a decent counter. You can shoot at Veers before he activates to disrupt the efficiency of the aim chain and force him to (hopefully) go later in the round

Yup, Pinned Down is a good one.

Having been on the recieving end, they don't need 32 aims to make it unpleasant to play against. A very sub optimal 10ish free aims made rebel squads vanish with very little I could do about it.