6 hours ago, Darth Veggie said:

Yes, that is true. It is more complicated than the current system, but I don't think mind boggling complicated. However, I understand people who prefer less elaborated systems.

The idea about objectives does not work, if you use it with the current system without reworking a lot of them. Because my idea presupposes that there is no first/second player asymmetry. But it can be done with a complete rework of the objectives (which the Runewarsian system needs as well).

Or each objective has a first player and second player effect.

I never once played Rune Wars, but I really like Darth Veggies idea - I like the opportunity to add more individualistic flavour to each ship based on it's command palette.

@Darth Veggie What is there to stop 5 CR-90s engine tech ramming an ISD before it can respond?

48 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

@Darth Veggie What is there to stop 5 CR-90s engine tech ramming an ISD before it can respond?

Better command management on the ISD, if I understand the system correctly.

Well I think the problem with Armada is mainly activation. Right now having more activations gives you an advantage, whereas large ships give you a disadvantage that the higher command value doesn't make up for. 3 tokens does not help with 3 dials. Also that there is no order players often change their decision on which ships to activate. This can cause delays as players first chose what ship to activate then the reveal a dial or bank a token, then straight or turn. If half of the decision was made beforehand this could speed up the game considerable so it wouldn't need a 6 turn limit to keep it shorter than a game of X-wing epic.

11 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

@Darth Veggie What is there to stop 5 CR-90s engine tech ramming an ISD before it can respond?

Quite the same as in the current system: nothing. The problem here are the current ramming rules and especially in combination with ET. But it seems to me to be the wrong approach to judge core mechanics by their interaction with non-core mechanics. To give a more radical example for vivacy reasons: if there would be a great core mechanic that does not work well with the Leia as fleet commander, the problem is Leia. So, two points: first, that point is not a drawback compared to the current system. Second, the direction of fit is wrong: non-core mechanics have to fit core mechanics, not the other way round.

14 hours ago, xero989 said:

For me I actually think it incresses the problem of activation advantage, for exsample I use the 5 cr-90's at initative two knowing that the ISD wont be able to activate until all the CR-90s shoot and fly away. For me the best way to handle this is an overwatch type mechanism this is how i would do it. "At the end of your activation if you have not performed an attack you may gain a redied gunners token." That token would work this way "at the end of an enamy ships movement phase, you may spend a redied gunners token to perform 1 attack against that ship, this attack is treated as being obstructed." I like this because you can still first last, but you have to be smart about it you can't just fly into the front arch of an ISD, but the side would not be to bad, I make the shot obstructed because obstruction has a bigger impact on smaller batterys that small ships have and not quite as much impact on larger batterys, that larger ships have.

Yes, that the 5CR90 can do, BUT in my specific proposal they can do that merely with limited fire power and navigational capabilities. But even further: maybe, my quick shot that I made simply for vivacy reasons has here a problem (I am still not sure about it). However, that specific cr90 command dial is not an essential part of the idea that activation timing is determined by the command dial with individual command dials for each ship.

Considering the overwatch mechanism (which is a different topic and deserves its own thread): it remedies only a very small part of the problems mentioned in the OP. It does not even remedy all the problems of last/first as mentioned here (allthough I agree that it is better than the status quo).

19 hours ago, emsgoof said:

List building, like many things, is about choices. You choose to not put a bid in your list. Someone else may decide it’s important to them, and include one. This is a basic function of the game.

In the space of 10 seconds, I was able to build an 8 activation list, which still has a 12 point bid in it. It’s a rebel fleet, and it’s probably something that a person better at the game than I am could do well with. No last/first against that list.

There are options out there. Changing one of the fundamentals of the game because you don’t like it is just laziness.

I think your posts in this thread arebpretty disrespectful. Veggie has gone to the trouble of explaining at length how it could work but hes not demanding the change. Its a discussion thats all.

2 hours ago, Darth Veggie said:

Quite the same as in the current system: nothing. The problem here are the current ramming rules and especially in combination with ET. But it seems to me to be the wrong approach to judge core mechanics by their interaction with non-core mechanics. To give a more radical example for vivacy reasons: if there would be a great core mechanic that does not work well with the Leia as fleet commander, the problem is Leia. So, two points: first, that point is not a drawback compared to the current system. Second, the direction of fit is wrong: non-core mechanics have to fit core mechanics, not the other way round.

It is still an issue of ALL my CR-90s do their moves at once before your ISD goes. Sure things like that can be done in the current system, though you are probably going to catch some CR-90s with your activation before all the 90s go.

8 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

It is still an issue of ALL my CR-90s do their moves at once before your ISD goes. Sure things like that can be done in the current system, though you are probably going to catch some CR-90s with your activation before all the 90s go.

Hmm, interesting point. You are right. When I replied to you, I had in mind that they are beyond red range. But in that case it would be difficult for them to perform a double ram anyway. Point taken. Still I consider the current ET-Ramming rules a problem in itself. And the problem does apart from that merely arise from my specific CR90 command dial illustration, not the basic idea in itself.

1 minute ago, Darth Veggie said:

Hmm, interesting point. You are right. When I replied to you, I had in mind that they are beyond red range. But in that case it would be difficult for them to perform a double ram anyway. Point taken. Still I consider the current ET-Ramming rules a problem in itself. And the problem does even merely arise from my specific CR90 command dial illustration, not the basic idea in itself.

Of course. ET ramming isn't the best for the game.

5 hours ago, Ophion said:

I think your posts in this thread arebpretty disrespectful. Veggie has gone to the trouble of explaining at length how it could work but hes not demanding the change. Its a discussion thats all.

7 hours ago, Darth Veggie said:

Yes, that the 5CR90 can do, BUT in my specific proposal they can do that merely with limited fire power and navigational capabilities. But even further: maybe, my quick shot that I made simply for vivacy reasons has here a problem (I am still not sure about it). However, that specific cr90 command dial is not an essential part of the idea that activation timing is determined by the command dial with individual command dials for each ship.

Considering the overwatch mechanism (which is a different topic and deserves its own thread): it remedies only a very small part of the problems mentioned in the OP. It does not even remedy all the problems of last/first as mentioned here (allthough I agree that it is better than the status quo).

(None of this is ment as a personal attack on anyone, just trying to share my opinion, and if it comes across passionit, well its becaus I love this game, not because I dont like someone)

I understand, for me I feel this system works in rune wars because you can have a few supporting blocks that trigger at the 2 slot as well and can have that block engage or possession itself to prevent other blocks from doing to much to your big/important block. In addition the rune wars system works so well because it is action baised so you know if the hoursemen are going to charge you its going to be a 3 or 5, and you can plan for that, so transfering that over to Armada would be much more than a copy and paste type thing it would be a complete rework of not only the comand system, but of introducing new mechanism and rebalancing so that counterplay could happen, with said system it would be a completely different game. In short if you have a ship that can trigger at the 2, and a ship that soonest is a 3 well you have to add in counterplay, and ways for other ships that can trigger at the 2 help mitigate the loss/disadvantage the ship has that can at the soonest respond at the 3. The overwatch system is simple, and while it still leaves the first last as a tactical opption, first/last loses value, If you have to take a shot to get a shot you dont come away unscathed, and as long as you don't fly into there arch before they activate witch would be bad maneuvering on your part they get one shot you get one shot, sure demo still can tripple tap, but its a bit more fragile so has to approch its targets more carefully, or we can nerf demo more, as he seams to be the main crucks of the issue. So I guess in short I personally feel that the simple addition of overwatch and maybe a further nerf to demo (maybe he can only move and attack if it targets the rear hull zone of a ship) is preferable to reworking the entire game so that a new comand system could be introduced, besides if all comand dials were different from ship to ship it would be a storage nightmare. In all fairness though The runewars system in Armada could be pretty cool and good if done correctly, but I feel its a complex and cumbersome soullition, to a problem that has simpler answers.