Say you're desperate to make non Vader x1s work in Hyperspace, because after the points adjustment you're guaranteed to be onto a winner.... ahem, ok, scratch that 2nd part....

So anyway, I have a Reaper, 3 x1s and 3 TIEs. I'm looking to come up with a list with the 3 x1s in it. What would you do?

Been messing about this evening with Feroph and 3 Storm Squadron Pilots but I'm a little all over the place with upgrades atm.

I do have Boba and 2 Fangs if I really want to throw down so I'm just kind of casually interested atm. But the Adv can be a fierce beast when it has a lock...

9 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Say you're desperate to make non Vader x1s work in Hyperspace, because after the points adjustment you're guaranteed to be onto a winner.... ahem, ok, scratch that 2nd part....

So anyway, I have a Reaper, 3 x1s and 3 TIEs. I'm looking to come up with a list with the 3 x1s in it. What would you do?

Been messing about this evening with Feroph and 3 Storm Squadron Pilots but I'm a little all over the place with upgrades atm.

I do have Boba and 2 Fangs if I really want to throw down so I'm just kind of casually interested atm. But the Adv can be a fierce beast when it has a lock...

So Debris Gambit is off the table. Have you given Ved Foslo a look as one of the x1s? I'm fiddling around with Elusive + Adv Sen on him, he can keep Elusive ticking in a knife fight thanks to what he does to the x1's dial.

42 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

So Debris Gambit is off the table. Have you given Ved Foslo a look as one of the x1s? I'm fiddling around with Elusive + Adv Sen on him, he can keep Elusive ticking in a knife fight thanks to what he does to the x1's dial.

I haven't yet actually. Juno was one of my favourites in 1.0 though, so I really should do. I think my resentment over the name change has been holding me back

I have tried thr trio of Storm Squaddies with Adv Sen mind you, really makes a difference. K-turn, t-roll to the max!

Two lists :

This for casual or teamplay group :

TIE/ln Fighter - Obsidian Squadron Pilot - 24
Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (24)

TIE/ln Fighter - Obsidian Squadron Pilot - 24
Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (24)

TIE/ln Fighter - Obsidian Squadron Pilot - 24
Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (24)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 41
Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 41
Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 41
Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41)

Total: 195/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

And this for serious business :

TIE Reaper - Scarif Base Pilot - 43
Scarif Base Pilot - (41)
Tactical Officer (2)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 49
Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41)
Fire-Control System (3)
Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 49
Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41)
Fire-Control System (3)
Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Advanced x1 - •Maarek Stele - 59
•Maarek Stele - Servant of the Empire (50)
Marksmanship (1)
Fire-Control System (3)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

3 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I haven't yet actually. Juno was one of my favourites in 1.0 though, so I really should do. I think my resentment over the name change has been holding me back

I have tried thr trio of Storm Squaddies with Adv Sen mind you, really makes a difference. K-turn, t-roll to the max!

I keep defaulting to Fire Control System, but I guess it only really works if you're going to lock one turn and still be shooting the same target the next.

There is an argument for sticking with unmodified green dice, using the whole lock and trying to kill the target right now . And, as you say, advanced sensors does open up the option to roll or turn and still have a lock that turn.

In either case (Sensors or Fire Control), you're spending points on the turn after the shooting starts - I think that's the biggest weakness of the TIE/x1; that first engagement where you either have only unmodified green dice or no advanced targeting computer.

Thoughts I've had:

Generics:

• Storm Squadron Ace x 4
  • Elusive
  • Fire Control System

Aces

• Maarek Stele
  • Elusive
  • Fire Control System
  • Homing Missiles
  • Hull Upgrade
• Ved Folso
  • Elusive
  • Advanced Sensors
  • Proton Rockets
  • Afterburners
• Zertik Strom
  • Elusive
  • Fire Control System
  • Homing Missiles
  • Hull Upgrade

With TIE advanced seemingly all about the turns after the initial engagement, I wonder if throwing Del Meeko into the squad might be a good idea?

3 hours ago, Arkanta974 said:

TIE Reaper - Scarif Base Pilot - 43
Scarif Base Pilot - (41)
Tactical Officer (2)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 49
Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41)
Fire-Control System (3)
Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 49
Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41)
Fire-Control System (3)
Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Advanced x1 - •Maarek Stele - 59
•Maarek Stele - Servant of the Empire (50)
Marksmanship (1)
Fire-Control System (3)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

This is closest to what Ive been coming up with myself, thanks. I've been dubious about Cluster Missiles so far in 2.0 but I feel like now might be the time.

21 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

With TIE advanced seemingly all about the turns after the initial engagement, I wonder if throwing Del Meeko into the squad might be a good idea?

This is exactly the issue I keep coming back to. Almost every combo I come up with seems to need either a distraction element or some way to navigate that opening exchange.

I had a little success with SL Valen Rudor and Wampa providing that for 2 x1s and Feroph but fitting the 3rd x1 in opens up that whole problem again.

The more I think about it, the more I ought to give the generic x1 advanced a good try out. The basic TIE/x1 exchanging shots with a basic T-65 is trading damage. It comes out slightly shy because the locks telegraph your attacks, meaning the 'other' T-65s can spend their focus tokens with no concern for being shot at, whilst your nominated target 'knows' it should retain its token.

Of course, trading damage is the TIE/x1 ultimately losing because it has a flimsier hull than the X-wing. I guess the value of the TIE advanced (aside from Darth Vader, who's just awesome because I-Have-Supernatural-Reflexes-Initiative-6-And-Extra Actions-Even-When-Talon-Rolling but is also half your squad) is inextricably tied to Advanced Targeting Computer but I don't have a 'feel' for how bad (and hence how valuable) an automatic critical in each attack actually is , yet. Criticals are supposed to be more painful than in 1.0, and the X-wing's extra hull has come at the cost of the 'just discard the card' Integrated Astromech, meaning an extra damage 'slot' where a face-up damage card can sit. The value of reliable critical hit effects, after all, is at the core of Maarek Stele being a worthwhile pilot (or not).

I'm still not sold on cluster missiles. They have uses - anyone with the force, or ruthless, or TIE/sf with hotshot gunner, or whatever - but on a TIE/x1, if I have the lock I need to fire anyway, I'm already throwing 3 dice at range 1 - 4 dice at range 1 - with an automatic hit-to-critical, meaning all you're buying for 5 points is a (probably unmodified) bonus attack at range 2 of you and range 1 of the original target.

I can see benefits to giving TIE/x1 proton rockets ('lock-free' ordnance you can roll and use, and really, really potent if you get a shot off), Ion missiles (because control is good), or homing missiles (because at range 3, primary weapons - even with advanced targeting computer - aren't that great)

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

All the things.

And even more things.

Clusters being an unmodded, situational 3 dice is what has put me off them. Against a lot of things, you're either getting no bonus attack or you're just rolling dice for the sake of it.

I have had friends get some use out of them though, in a meta where more ships > more upgrades, the situation is more common than it has been in the past.

Prockets I'm very meh on. Difficult to get the bullseye on a lot of opponents and worthless if you don't have both focus AND lock. There is a deterrent factor there but it's an expensive one.

Ion missiles I can't see getting the effect through often enough to make it worth the opportunity cost but I could be wrong. I am not tempted by them at all.

I am tempted by Homing, but that leads to the next point.

A guaranteed crit on every TL attack is really solid, this is where the x1 really shines. Once you strip shields from a target with 1 or 2 of your attacks, the enemy ship falls to bits frighteningly fast. Poe died in 1 round to 2 Stormboys in my last game with them. His green dice were admittedly woeful, but he just melted under a pile of crits

So that's really the missile thing on x1s right there. Once you have your victim TLd, you have all the offence you need already. You flip the hit to a crit, then TL reroll whatever else you need to and blam, they really, really hurt.

Surviving and keeping guns on target is the real issue with them. Which is why I'm having a hard time trying to fit 3 with Elusive and Adv Sen in a list

You're right that telegraphing your attack with the lock never helps and keeping it active can just fail, you're just selling all your information to them. Which is why I'm more inclined to just spend the thing and pick up another, pretty much negating any benefit from FCS. This is really where the Reaper and SL Rudor come in, stacking the lock and focus in one turn. But it's a tricky balance in the opening stages, which is where things can go wrong enough to make recovery nigh impossible.

However, Clusters do interest me, natural dice can sometimes prevail and 2 or 3 bonus attacks in one combat could be super swingingly good.

I'm possibly tempted to try this for Veno Foclipse, in this week's games. Which will answer a few questions if nothing else.

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 46 Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41) Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 46 Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41) Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Reaper - •Major Vermeil - 49 •Major Vermeil - Veteran of Scarif (49)

TIE Advanced x1 - •Ved Foslo - 58 •Ved Foslo - Ambitious Engineer (47) Elusive (3) Advanced Sensors (8) Total: 199/200

Vague idea is that Vedmeilslo will bait and circumnavigate a joust and the Tempests will make sacrifices of themselves. Veds Adv Sen 5k and Vermeils sudden burst of speed may be useful.

Otherwise 3 Adv Sen Stormies and Feroph has me quite tempted to actually table time it.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

Prockets I'm very meh on. Difficult to get the bullseye on a lot of opponents and worthless if you don't have both focus AND lock. There is a deterrent factor there but it's an expensive one.

I agree with the cost and fiddlyness of attacking with them (although getting a bullseye is easier at range 1, especially given the focus/link/roll option), but I don't see why they're worthless with just focus - it's still a 5-dice attack, which is harder hitting than a proton torpedo.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

Ion missiles I can't see getting the effect through often enough to make it worth the opportunity cost but I could be wrong. I am not tempted by them at all.

I would agree. Most of the time I'd reach for them it'd because they have 3 charge for only a point more than the 2-charge homing missiles. They're nice as a substitute 3-dice attack on a TIE/sf, but unless you specifically try for it you probably won't have enough range 3 shots to justify buying them, even as cheap as they are.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

So that's really the missile thing on x1s right there. Once you have your victim TLd, you have all the offence you need already. You flip the hit to a crit, then TL reroll whatever else you need to and blam, they really, really hurt.

I would agree at range 1-2. At range 3 is where missiles seem like not a bad investment. Whether the result is a hit or crit isn't so significant as the fact that a range 3 engagement with primary weapons is 3 red dice vs 3 green dice (depending on target), whilst a homing missile is 4 vs 2 (or an automatic point of damage and you get to keep the lock).

Since a TIE/x1 is dependent on green dice for its survival, being able to open the ball at range 3 (where it gets 4 green dice to most primary weapons' 3 red dice) could be good.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

You're right that telegraphing your attack with the lock never helps and keeping it active can just fail, you're just selling all your information to them. Which is why I'm more inclined to just spend the thing and pick up another, pretty much negating any benefit from FCS.

This. If you've got relatively few ships, it'll probably take you a turn or two to get the kill and you can use your action whilst locked to focus and roll, but low initative generics probably want to lock/fire/lock/fire/lock/fire until stuff goes away, which is why I think advanced sensors is probably not a bad call.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

I'm possibly tempted to try this for Veno Foclipse, in this week's games. Which will answer a few questions if nothing else.

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 46 Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41) Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Advanced x1 - Tempest Squadron Pilot - 46 Tempest Squadron Pilot - (41) Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Reaper - •Major Vermeil - 49 •Major Vermeil - Veteran of Scarif (49)

TIE Advanced x1 - •Ved Foslo - 58 •Ved Foslo - Ambitious Engineer (47) Elusive (3) Advanced Sensors (8) Total: 199/200

Vague idea is that Vedmeilslo will bait and circumnavigate a joust and the Tempests will make sacrifices of themselves. Veds Adv Sen 5k and Vermeils sudden burst of speed may be useful.

I'm still not convinced about the cluster missiles - at least, not convinced you'll get 10 points worth of value from them, especially if in your mind they're kamikazes who may well not live long enough to empty all 4 charges. By comparison, that's afterburners for Ved, giving him an even more impressive 'dial', between pre-move focus-and-roll, speed 3 blue banks and a free post-move boost...

If you want a reaper to provide co-ordination, I'd suggest either Vizier (who can do it whilst looping) or Tactical Officer/Feroph (who's a darn sight tougher)

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Prockets. Homers. Ion. Clusters, Reaper dude.

Thanks, all really good points and especially food for thought on the Ions and Homers.

I honestly always forget to factor range bonus into my thinking with munitions. It has cost me many times...

Prockets with no lock. I think my experience rolling 5 dice without mods is probably coloured by negative bias. I hate having spent the points and made a play for the big 5 dice 1 hit wonder only to come out with 3 hits and see 2 dodged. I've used APT Rhymer a fair bit without coord help and sort of sworn off doing it

But given there is a coord in the squad, I may look at them again. It's just a hefty investment for a very swingy return.

Clusters, I totally agree but I just want to see how they go. Then I can stop thinking about them.

The Reaper is an interesting one. Big fan of Boom Owls thread. All the pilots have merit. The reasoning on which one I use is soley what Initiative are they going to be working with. Having that before/after move choice is too hard to give up. This one I was obviously thinking Ved but both Vizier and Feroph are solid choices if I look at it differently. Feroph would sponge for the x1s a darn sight more than the others so may even be a better tactical choice. I do have a big soft spot for Vermeils attacking bias though and the target he has on his back can come in handy.

We will see