When does Treacherous resolve?

Canceling dice isn't considered a dice modification. Is canceling dice results a dice modification?

If yes:

• Then it would occur during the defender modifies attack dice step, before defense dice have been rolled.
• But nothing in the rules says cancelling dice results is a dice modification, other than that it seems like it ought to be - except that the rules explicitly tell us cancelling dice is not. In fact, the rules for canceling dice seem to treat canceling dice and canceling dice results interchangeably.

If no:

• So... when does it happen? There's a very big difference between "before the attacker modifies dice" and "after seeing the defense roll". The rules don't tell us when cancelling dice happens, just that it isn't a dice modification.
• Lots of cards currently cancel dice. All of them tell us when. Eg: Biggs and Crack Shot specify "before the neutralize results step"; Munitions Failsafe and Lieutenant Kestal specify "after dice are rolled"; Seyn Marana first uses the word "spend", which has a defined timing.

1 minute ago, svelok said:

When does Treacherous resolve?

Canceling dice isn't considered a dice modification. Is canceling dice results a dice modification?

If yes:

• Then it would occur during the defender modifies attack dice step, before defense dice have been rolled.
• But nothing in the rules says cancelling dice results is a dice modification, other than that it seems like it ought to be - except that the rules explicitly tell us cancelling dice is not. In fact, the rules for canceling dice seem to treat canceling dice and canceling dice results interchangeably.

If no:

• So... when does it happen? There's a very big difference between "before the attacker modifies dice" and "after seeing the defense roll". The rules don't tell us when cancelling dice happens, just that it isn't a dice modification.
• Lots of cards currently cancel dice. All of them tell us when. Eg: Biggs and Crack Shot specify "before the neutralize results step"; Munitions Failsafe and Lieutenant Kestal specify "after dice are rolled"; Seyn Marana first uses the word "spend", which has a defined timing.

Willing to bet that will be errated to say spend.

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

😲 Holy Heck. Soulless One. 10 pts easy.

Hopefully it is more playable than Virago. But I can see it edging out a Vulture, and this not being worth it.

Thinking further it doesn't really matter as the timing can't affect what th3 token does. So you can do it whenever.

The gas clouds being purely beneficial would be pretty boring.

Because apart from players fielding Dash, Mining Guild TIEs or vultures, or expecting swarms and wantung to brake them by sly obstacle placing (which is going to be difficult if the swarm opponent brings 3 beneficial obstacles) why would anyone field other things than the gas clouds?

Also with these things improving defense, this

- enforces even more high Ini ace meta, because these can more effectively place themselves (more protected being in an unavoidable enemy arc by being behind cloud and maybe outmaneuvred their other target and self shooting unobstructed)

-leads to more games going to time!

So imho the clouds better have a negative.

1 hour ago, DXCrazytrain said:

There had better be a way for people not buying into clones wars factions to get the gas clouds.

32 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

People are likely going to be buying multiple Squadron Packs and there's no need for a second copy of the gas clouds. There'll be opportunities to buy them off of people.

I said it in another thread but I’m looking at owning four sets of these three identical obstacles, between both Squadron Packs. So if you remember, shoot me a PM once they come out 😜

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

Thinking further it doesn't really matter as the timing can't affect what th3 token does. So you can do it whenever.

The timing is very relevant.

Attacker rolls 3 dice with a lock, getting 3 blanks. [If it's during the defender modifies attack dice step, it happens now. There are no hits, so it can do nothing.]

Attacker spends the lock, rolling 3 hits.

Defender rolls 2 dice, getting 2 evades. [If it's whenever you want, it happens now, and the defender takes no damage.]

I am _very_ much hoping that an upgrade card allows a player to "vent gas" and drop one of those new gas tokens behind them.

20 minutes ago, svelok said:

The timing is very relevant.

Attacker rolls 3 dice with a lock, getting 3 blanks. [If it's during the defender modifies attack dice step, it happens now. There are no hits, so it can do nothing.]

Attacker spends the lock, rolling 3 hits.

Defender rolls 2 dice, getting 2 evades. [If it's whenever you want, it happens now, and the defender takes no damage.]

It makes no difference because in the end you lose 1 hit either way.

It would be silly to do it before defence modification if the defender might spend tokens tho.

But like I said I bet it will be errated to spend anyway.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Where are people getting strain for flying through them from?

The Strained token also appears in the Republic squad pack spread.

Although, it's also in the Arc spread, so who knows what's going on

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It makes no difference because in the end you lose 1 hit either way.

It would be silly to do it before defence modification if the defender might spend tokens tho.

But like I said I bet it will be errated to spend anyway.

It matters if you can choose to wait until after you've rolled your defense dice.

8 minutes ago, Maui. said:

The Strained token also appears in the Republic squad pack spread.

Although, it's also in the Arc spread, so who knows what's going on

Does Devoted assign a stress? Or maybe it’s a strain?

13 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Does Devoted assign a stress? Or maybe it’s a strain?

I think the wording on the French Devoted and Treacherous was the same (translated “Constrain”), so Devoted probably assigns a strain token.

1 hour ago, Caduceus01 said:

Yes. Even if you have multiple ships with Tactical Relay slots you can only equip 1 in your list

Technically, they could introduce a non-solitary tactical relay upgrade and you would then be able to include 1 solitary and multiple non-solitary TR upgrades in one list, yes?

1 hour ago, Punning Pundit said:

I am _very_ much hoping that an upgrade card allows a player to "vent gas" and drop one of those new gas tokens behind them.

A Riker Maneuver from Insurrection. Suck one pop one.

10 minutes ago, asterborn said:

I think the wording on the French Devoted and Treacherous was the same (translated “Constrain”), so Devoted probably assigns a strain token.

Cool. Just questioned that because I think I read it as stress somewhere recently. There’s your answer for it being in the ARC pack. But hey maybe it’s not from the clouds then, who knows.

2 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Technically, they could introduce a non-solitary tactical relay upgrade and you would then be able to include 1 solitary and multiple non-solitary TR upgrades in one list, yes?

Doubtful. From the article:

"This information is so valuable that each Tactical Relay upgrade is also marked with the "solitary" restriction, limiting its use. During squad building, a player cannot field more than one solitary card of the same upgrade type."

You could include multiple non solitary ones, OR one solitary one, that's how the keyword (apparently) works.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

You could include multiple non solitary ones, OR one solitary one, that's how the keyword (apparently) works.

Wording implies every Tac Relay will be a solitary Tac Relay. I'm just hoping they have one with out the limited pip for a No Glory mode option for the slot.

With that pip there it is locked out...

Have they/any idea on when updated they online rules or FAQ for “solitary” or “strained”?

This shocked me when reading those ans couldnt couldn’t find any official clarification.

2 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

Have they/any idea on when updated they online rules or FAQ for “solitary” or “strained”?

This shocked me when reading those ans couldnt couldn’t find any official clarification.

Just before the release of Wave 3 is most likely. So in the next couple of months.

3 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

Have they/any idea on when updated they online rules or FAQ for “solitary” or “strained”?

This shocked me when reading those ans couldnt couldn’t find any official clarification.

I mean... the stuff isn’t out yet. If it comes out before then that’s a bonus.

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Wording implies every Tac Relay will be a solitary Tac Relay.

Wording was that all the current tac relay cards will be solitary. My question was about a hypothetical non-solitary card of that type.

2 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

they could introduce a non-solitary tactical relay upgrade

Being able to be taken (in multiples, potentially) alongside a solitary

2 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

Have they/any idea on when updated they online rules or FAQ for “solitary” or “strained”?

This shocked me when reading those ans couldnt couldn’t find any official clarification.

Probably right after they have rules to govern what Dark Side actually means on Hate.

4 hours ago, Maui. said:

The Strained token also appears in the Republic squad pack spread.

Although, it's also in the Arc spread, so who knows what's going on

There could be an as yet un-revealed upgrade that can cause an ARC to get a strain token. It could also be included the same way stress tokens and the like get put in expansions.