Hi guys,

I remember, there was a topic about that, but i just can't find it. So i repeat the situation. As rules say, if there are multiple dodges, only one can be performed. Let's simulate such scenario : there are 3 cherubs in a center of a room ( red , blue, and green ). Marine lobs a grenade right in the center of them. Let's assume, throw was successful and grenade landed precisely where it was planed. Dice indicates 4 damage and range is sufficient. Well, all cherubs has permanent dodge, so by the rules, one of them can attempt to dodge the grenade blast. Invader player picks red one. Marine rerolls all dice. From this point we asume that rest cherubs take full damage from first roll ( 4 dmg in out case ). And now i am a bit confused. With the second roll marine can roll more damage ( critical fail dodge,lol ), less damage ( better dodge ), and a miss ( successful dodge ). If he rolls "a mis", does it mean that my cherub takes no damage ( because of the miss ), or does it mean, that grenade scatter and explode in new sector with damage depending of the roll result ?

And what if ammo icon is rolled with the second roll. Marine must discard ammo token ??

I think, dodge efect should depend only on second roll result, minus scatter. Only tree outcomes: 1) more damage, 2) less damage and 3) no damage

What do you think ?

Brazlowsky said:

You are correct that only one cherub may Dodge, as the dice can only ever be re-rolled once. You are incorrect to assume that the first roll applies to the two Cherubs who didn't dodge. The new roll applies to ALL targets even though only one dodge can be used. If there were another marine in there with a dodge order up and he chose to dodge before the cherubs got a chance, the new roll would apply to him and all cherubs.

If an ammo icon is rolled on the re-roll, the marine must spend the ammo. If an ammo icon WAS rolled at first but NOT on the re-roll, then he does not have to spend any ammo. The re-roll completely replaces the old roll for all purposes. The old roll did not happen.

If the initial roll includes a cherub who dodges and then re-roll subsequently scatters off to the side where it creates a new attack that includes a completely different cherub, the second cherub CANNOT dodge. The attack may only ever be re-rolled ONCE.

Edit: I'm slow. Steve-O said it almost exactly the same

You got it wrong.

The other cherubs do not take the damage of the first roll. No-one does.

If multiple characters are in a blast radius and one (or more) of them have a dodge, then that character may dodge it and the second result applies to EVERYONE. So it doesn't matter which cherub you choose, once the dice are re-rolled, the result applies to all cherubs. Only one dodge re-roll is made even if there are multiple cherubs. One cherub dodges for everyone.

So if the first cherub dodges it so that the attack misses (either a miss icon or insufficient range), it scatters. And ammo icon uses ammo. Essentially you ignore the first result (except for the dice you choose not to re-roll) and accept the second result which is final.

To make things even more interesting, have a Cherub fly next to a marine, then shoot that marine (or hopefully group of marines) with your Cacodemon. Since the Cherub is "dodging", he can make the Invader reroll whichever dice he wants, effectively turning the attack into an aimed attack (at the cost of the Cherub, of course, who will most likely die).

-shnar

There are 4 reasons to dodge.

Lower damage output

insufficient range

miss icon

bullet icon

As far as i can read from the manual. All these integers can change when you dodge.

I do not think a grenade can miss and scatter due to dodge of a unit since the manual clearly says that you attack a square and not a unit.

I'm doing the following but its just my interpertation of the rules.

Either with aim or dodge, see if there is a bullet icon in the first throw and discard it immediatly.

Dodge or aim can not have influence on the amount of ammo you use imho so a re-roll will not change that in my games.

When its an attack directed on 1 square, damage, range and miss can be affected by a re-roll.

Considering that the longer the range, the easier it would be to dodge the projectile.

With a dodge on an area of effect attack i view it differently. You do not dodge the projectile but the effect.

The marine rolled the dice and the grenade reached destination. The grenade explodes and its the explosion that the units can dodge.

First all units that cannot dodge recieve the damage.

Then I look again at the parameters that can change when you re-roll.

The cause of insufficient range would cause the grenade to scatter and have a different area of detonation so that is not possible.

Realism would say you need to re-roll for each unit that can dodge within the area, using the first throw as basis. But that is just crazy work with no increased gameplay

Since that is a lot of work we just roll the yellow dice for each unit inside.Sometimes one or perhaps 2 units survive. Good enough outcome. Easy rules.

Example with chaingun. You shoot 2 or 3 units with atleast 1 dodge and 1 normal. In this situation you are dodging a projectile and not an explosion so first roll the dice and determine the path the attack is walking and apply the roll on the normal unit(s). Then re-roll and apply damage, range and miss icon for the dodging unit(s).

Basically I just state that you dodge the effect and not alter the attack, making difference between explosions and projectiles.

Martouf said:

It is true that attacks target spaces and not figures. It is also true that Dodge is an ability that affects attacks, the whole attack, whether it comes from a figure, an order token or a card (either skill card or Invader card.) No matter what the source of the Dodge ability, it works the same and forces a re-roll of selected dice. The old die results are forgotten and the new ones take effect.

If you want to play with house rules that are more "realistic" that's your business (I have a number of house rules in my own Doom games), but this is how the rules are written, for those who care.

Martouf said:

I know Steve, thats why I mention its my own rules cq house rules.

Since you already correctly answered the question of the topic starter I thought I give some added value to the topic by mentioning how I solve this part with my 'house rules'.

Metioning house rules is improper?

Martouf said:

No, of course not.

The way you said "a grenade cannot scatter due to dodge because the manual states you attack a square and not a figure" made it sound, to me, like you were arguing an interpretation of the rules as written, not creating a house rule. That was my misunderstanding. If my reply sounded hostile, I apologise, such is the danger of text-based communication.

As a rule, everything I say is just my opinion. I'm not interested in fighting with people I've never met over a board game, so if my responses come across that way, please know that it is unintentional. I was just trying to be clear about how the rules are written, whether you choose to play them that way or not is up to you. =)

I said few times that its my opinion and my interpertation, but maybe I'm not writing that word correctly so let's keep it on a grammer error and be friends