I will preface this by saying that all of the species stats I’ve mentioned are from RAW, and not (as I often do) the CSG.

So it’s no secret that the “best” species stat blocks are the ones that give higher XP in exchange for drawbacks. For example, Dressellians who keep Primitive, Gands with lungs, and Pantorans are sometimes the only way to get certain characteristics without Dedication. For example, the elusive 44/1, 5/3/1, or 33333/1. On the other hand, species that get many benefits in exchange for reduced XP are at a major disadvantage. Essentially, Starting XP is significantly more valuable than Earned XP because it can be used on Characteristics.

One such example would be the Aqualish, who receive 90 starting XP. They’re 3/1, their thresholds are a net drawback, (+1 WT and -2 ST) they get Aquatic, a rank in Brawl, and subspecies benefits. If you ignore all but the subspecies benefits, that comes out to 100 Starting XP and alligns fairly well with other species. So basically, the Aqualish exchange 10 Starting XP for their subspecies benefits, each of which is a skill and a “remove setback” type of ability. These two effects, a skill and a cheap talent, would be worth about 10 XP in most cases, The only issue here is that 10 XP and 10 Starting XP are teo very different things. The Aqualish are essentially forced to spend 10 Starting XP on abilities which are only worth 10 earned XP.

My proposed solution to this disparity: Replace the “You can only increase Characteristics directly during” Character Creation” rule with “You can only spend a certain amount of XP to increase Characteristics directly.” This amount of XP would based on your species starting Characteristics block, as follows:

All 2s: 110 XP to use on Characteristics

3/1: 100 XP to use on Characteristics

33/11: 90 XP to use on Characteristics

3/11: 120 XP to use on Characteristics

1: 130 XP to use on Characteristics

All 1s: 230 XP to use on Characteristics

4/11: 80 XP to use on Characteristics

Some benefits of this system:

• You no longer have a handful of elite species like Pantorans, Gands, Drall, and Dressellians, who are the only ones capable of certain sets of characteristics.
• Just like the original rule, it still prevents players from dumping all of their XP into Characteristics
• Players who choose to spend XP on talents and skills at Character Creation and focus on characteristics later can do so. Therefore, talents, which make characters more fun and interesting from a mechanical standpoint, can be used even in Session 1.
• It allows PCs greater ability to increase characteristics later in the game -this could be especially beneficial when playing a game that spans multiple decades or even a character’s entire life.

Potential Drawbacks:

• It is more complicated, providing one more thing for PCs to keep track of.
• It still doesn’t solve the issue of species with lots of 1s getting an advantage when highly specialized with only a few characteristics.

I’m not completely sold on it, but I think it could improve some games, and I’m interested to hear what you guys think.

It's a solution to a problem that (for me) largely doesn't exist. Only the Pantorans seem to give something for nothing, and I've never had players that want to stay Primitive (as any species) or be a Gand with lungs.

I've never cared about starting character issues, they all become irrelevant during campaigns in time.

Hem... Potentially stupid question here, but what is the problem with Pantorans ? According to Endless Vigil, they have 2/2/2/2/1/3, 10+vig 11+will, 110xp, one free rank, and resist cold

They are basically the same as twileks, with 10 more xp.

What is wrong with them, then ?

11 minutes ago, AbsatSolo said:

Hem... Potentially stupid question here, but what is the problem with Pantorans ? According to Endless Vigil, they have 2/2/2/2/1/3, 10+vig 11+will, 110xp, one free rank, and resist cold

They are basically the same as twileks, with 10 more xp.

What is wrong with them, then ?

That’s a separate issue. I wanted to operate under the assumption that FFG was granting and removing XP for correct reasons, which is why I mostly talked about Aqualish. But anyway, here’s my rant on Pantorans:

I hate FFG’s species stats with a passion. Pantorans are, as you said, “basically the same as [Twi’leks], with 10 more XP.” This extra 10 XP is given to them for no reason. Pantorans are by no means an isolated case, but they’re a pretty clear cut example of FFG stats being flawed. FFG’s argument in favor of giving them +10 XP is basically “Well, Willpower is more important in F&D than with other games, so therefore low-Willpower F&D species get more XP.” The issue is that this logic is repeated nowhere else: For example, Nautolans don’t appear to get more XP than they should, and Zabraks don’t appear to get too little XP. Also, there are no rules dictating that Pantorans can only be in F&D.

1 hour ago, Yaccarus said:

I hate FFG’s species stats with a passion

We gathered 😋

3 hours ago, ALFRED1182 said:

We gathered 😋

Yeah, that’s why I didn’t make my Pantoran rant until I was exclusively asked about it.

You shouldn't hate, it leads to the dark side...

Oh joy, yet another "I hate the fact that I can't dump XP into Characteristics after character creation!" thread

Honestly, characteristics tend to become less and less relevant as campaigns go on, since the PCs will have (ideally) invested enough XP into their key skills that all the characteristic does is provide upgrades rather than setting the base number of ability dice.

Frankly, if you're really that fussed about the fact that the Dedication talent is by RAW the only way to increase characteristics after character generation, then I would suggest instead of complicated formulas concocted in an attempt to "balance" things out, I'd suggest just allowing each character the option to increase each characteristic after char-gen once per characteristic. So if a PC wanted to raise their Agility from 3 to 4 after char-gen, they could spend 40XP from adventures to do so, but if they wanted to go from Agility 4 to 5, they'd need to buy Dedication.

While I do see your point here, I would argue that this only has an effect in longer campaigns. If you're playing a shorter campaign, it's way better to dump your XP into skill ranks both at creation and over time, to add dice to the dice pool (extra greens are of a larger benefit than upgrading a green to a yellow).

It's only in longer campaigns, when you are likely to max out all your skill ranks with earned XP in whatever your character's core function is, that missing a few characteristics really starts to get felt (something you're unlikely to do in a shorter campaign). Of course, by then you can shore them up with a few dedications.

All that said, if this helps your table and makes some folks happier, hey, give it a whirl and see how it goes!

On 1/22/2019 at 8:35 AM, Donovan Morningfire said:

Oh joy, yet another "I hate the fact that I can't dump XP into Characteristics after character creation!" thread

Honestly, characteristics tend to become less and less relevant as campaigns go on, since the PCs will have (ideally) invested enough XP into their key skills that all the characteristic does is provide upgrades rather than setting the base number of ability dice.

Frankly, if you're really that fussed about the fact that the Dedication talent is by RAW the only way to increase characteristics after character generation, then I would suggest instead of complicated formulas concocted in an attempt to "balance" things out, I'd suggest just allowing each character the option to increase each characteristic after char-gen once per characteristic. So if a PC wanted to raise their Agility from 3 to 4 after char-gen, they could spend 40XP from adventures to do so, but if they wanted to go from Agility 4 to 5, they'd need to buy Dedication.

Wow this is a great compromise. Might consider it, but limit it to only being able to be done once a story arc or episode. That way luke does not start the story with his whiny voice and presence and cunning of 2 and then come back in empire strikes back with a 4 in both.