Hobbit Chapter 4, Over Hill and Under Hill

[*The Great Goblin] (enemy)

Technically it is a title instead of a name, but since he has his own unique enemy card I've listed him anyways.

We learn in this chapter that while goblins hate Thorin's folk due to the war, they don't especially hate dwarves and have even made alliances in "some parts" with "wicked dwarves". Suppose we'll ever see dwarf enemies in the game? No, Nalir doesn't count.

More remarkable to me is the way that *all* the goblins recognized Biter and Beater. Elrond guessed that those blades have been out of circulation since the fall of Gondolin and had to read the runes to identify them; Gandalf didn't recognize them at all. Yet the goblins recognized both on sight. Goblins multiply, by all appearances much much faster than the elves they mock, even if they have the lifespan of elves (likely IMO), it's remarkable that so many goblins of the misty mountains would be veterans of the few battles involving Gondolin.

Hobbit Chapter 5, Riddles in the Dark

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Hobbit Chapter 6, Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire

[*The Lord of the Eagles]

Again this is more of a title, we don't know the name of the Lord of the Eagles, or for that matter if he were around at the time between the party and the fellowship. Gwaihir is clearly leading the Eagles then, assuming it's the same exact group of eagles, which it might not be (the Lord had no less than fifteen chieftains). But isn't Gwaihir the Lord of the Eagles? Not unless he and Gandalf can't count, since his third bearing of Gandalf in LOTR is referred to as the third time carrying him -- but the Lord of the Eagles bore Gandalf in the pages of the Hobbit. (OK, we know Gandalf can't count from subsequent events, but I assume Gwaihir, like Goblins, can count.)

Another interesting point is Gandalf's remark "I must see if I can't find a more or less decent giant to block [the goblin gate] up again, or soon there will be no getting over the mountains at all". We've seen giants as enemies, but it'd be pretty cool to see a more or less decent giant as a player card.

Hobbit chapter 7, ***** Lodgings

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And apparently the chapter title is deemed unfit for use in this forum.

Hobbit Chapter 8, Flies and Spiders,

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We meet Thranduil in this chapter, though he is not named here. The spiders use no names when addressing each other -- Bilbo calls them names, but they are generic rather than personal. Bilbo in the story has a *much* easier time dispatching spiders than he does in the game.

One interesting thing is that the ring-wearing Bilbo, unseen by the spiders, has his sword seen by them when he slashes the web. It seems odd to me that the Ring would make clothes invisible, but not items held in hand. In the case of the Black Riders, their outer garments are visible. Still, I think we should be grateful that the text doesn't make the hobbits doff their clothes whenever they use the ring.

Still, if it isn't a mistake, then Bilbo's mercy in sparing Gollum also worked in his favor -- if he had drawn his sword to kill the defenseless Gollum, he would have revealed his location and things might have gone badly for him.

On 3/28/2019 at 5:34 PM, dalestephenson said:

Hobbit chapter 7, ***** Lodgings

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And apparently the chapter title is deemed unfit for use in this forum.

This linguistic nonsense is really beyond belief. One cannot be too gay about it, actually.

6 minutes ago, lleimmoen said:

This linguistic nonsense is really beyond belief. One cannot be too gay about it, actually.

I just love when the software edits without looking at the context. I once mentioned Bruce Wane's youthful ward, **** Grayson, and it was obscured!😂

edit: Fine Duck Grayson then!

On 3/25/2019 at 12:24 PM, dalestephenson said:

More remarkable to me is the way that *all* the goblins recognized Biter and Beater. Elrond guessed that those blades have been out of circulation since the fall of Gondolin and had to read the runes to identify them; Gandalf didn't recognize them at all. Yet the goblins recognized both on sight. Goblins multiply, by all appearances much much faster than the elves they mock, even if they have the lifespan of elves (likely IMO), it's remarkable that so many goblins of the misty mountains would be veterans of the few battles involving Gondolin.

What a great catch. I salute you. And I do wonder I have not heard about this one, or indeed thought about it before. I guess I assumed the blades were famous but Gandalf does not indeed recognize them on sight. Well he did only get into MIddle-earth in the Third Age but still. Is this a remarkable oversight from the Professor himself or is there a natural explanation?

Perhaps our Troll friends had been busy using the blades on goblins before descending out of the mountains in pursuit of mutton...

That could be possible, if improbable. I remember the text reading that Sting was "probably no more than a pocket-knife for a troll." Or something to that effect.

6 hours ago, lleimmoen said:

I guess I assumed the blades were famous but Gandalf does not indeed recognize them on sight. Well he did only get into MIddle-earth in the Third Age but still. Is this a remarkable oversight from the Professor himself or is there a natural explanation?

I always assumed that the blades had entered into Goblin oral tradition, and descriptions of them were passed down through stories or songs. It's clear from Tolkien's writings that the Goblins of the Misty Mountains (and many other orc groups) had culture, and it stands to reason that therefore they would also have stories, too. Biter and Beater likely earned a legendary reputation as part of some Goblin epic tale from the First Age, much like we would hear about the Trojan Horse or Excalibur, perhaps. Keep in mind that cultures with oral traditions could keep very detailed memories alive, as well, so it's not that unlikely that if these swords had become part of the Goblin Legendarium that they would be recognizable from their descriptions. Especially with the tell-tale blue glow. It's also possible that the swords had been in the possession of the Goblins for some time before the trolls got hold of them, so they might have had more recent direct experience with them (like how Elrond kept the shards of Narsil in Rivendell on display for generations).

This sounds very logical. I wonder if anyone asked about this in the Letters since these swords are such famous artifacts, mentioned already in an early chapter of the Hobbit though dating all the way to the Silmarillion.

But yes, since the Trolls had them, they must have been around but out of reach of the Free Peoples, naturally, who would have not lost them again after the Fall of Gondolin (I presume). So the Goblins knew what ‘evil’ they could do from the tales of old, in their ancient oral tradition; but they could still see them, perhaps. Maybe the armies of Angmar might have even used them?

Hobbit Chapter 8, Barrels out of Bond

*Galion (Sp ally)

Sadly the butler's key-bearing friend is not named.

Also intriguing is the mention of trade that produces the barrels. "The wine, and other goods, were brought from far away, from their kinsfolk in the South, or from the vineyards of Men in distant lands." We know about kinsfolk to the south in Lorien, but they are an insular lot. Haldir says "..we dwell now in the heart of the forest, and do not willingly have dealings with any other folk. Even our own kindred in the North are sundered from us." This could be a recent development, of course. Celeborn shows they are not completely sundered, "Welcome son of Thranduil! Too seldom do my kindred journey hither from the North."

Anduin is on the opposite side of Mirkwood from Thranduil's halls. It would be interesting to know what route goods from the South took on their way to Thranduil's realm, and what portion of it was done by men rather than elves.

Again interesting. Thanks for these.

Hobbit Chapter 10, A Warm Welcome

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Hobbit Chapter 11, On the Doorstep

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Hobbit Chapter 12, Inside Information

[Girion, Lord of Dale]

[King Bladorthin]

Girion has his necklace in the game, but poor King Bladorthin's spears are forgotten. I wonder what kingdom he was from.

Hobbit Chapter 13, Not at Home

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I think Tolkien might have thought again about Bladorthin and discarded the idea.

Ok, check Encyclopedia of Arda, if you haven’t and are interested. But it says very little. The most interesting information given, perhaps, that Bladorthin was first a name reserved for Gandalf.

Hopefully Bladorthin is not just a coarse pun. I've seen speculation that Bladorthin was lord of Dorwinion -- if Caleb has seen the same speculation, we may yet see some reference to him in the next cycle.

I asked about Bladorthin some years ago in a swedish Tolkien forum, and they suspected Dorwinion.

I just love the idea of an Elven-king that has had too much to drink (Dorwinion was known for its strong wine) and forgets to collect his commissions! The Dwarves of Erebor must have felt rather smug.

I just read a really good argument for why Bladorthin had to have been the human king of Dorwinion. I don't recall you wrote the essay, but there's a link to it on Tolkien Gate.

Hobbit Chapter 14, Fire and Water

No new characters named. This is the first we hear the Thrush speak, but like the Master of Esgaroth, is not named.

Hobbit Chapter 15, The Gathering of the Clouds

[Carc]

[*Roac]

Carc and his wife were a famous pair, but only Carc is named. I am assuming that the aged Roac is deceased by the time of Bilbo's party. In the hobbit not only the Eagles have human-level intelligence, but also spiders, wolves, thrushes and ravens. Roac in particular is far wiser than Thorin.