So i played with someone who had 2 library access in his hand.
so he played an action, got 2 cards, played an other action, got 2 cards, an other action, got 2 cards until he had his whole deck in his hand.
Yay?
Didn't get the deck's reference, but that was just sickening.
Library Access is a one of card, typically (as in of all the decks registered on the KeyForge compendium, no deck contains more than one). Did you play with opaque sleeves?
16 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:Library Access is a one of card, typically (as in of all the decks registered on the KeyForge compendium, no deck contains more than one). Did you play with opaque sleeves?
Agreed. There are currently 497,633 decks registered in the Master Vault. None of them have 2 or more Library Access cards. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it definitely hasn't happened yet. The only way it's legit is if the opponent bought the deck, got something super rare (2x Library Access) and chose not to register it. I'd ask to see the deck list and make note of the Archon name. I think there is a decent chance that the opponent was up to shenanigans.
2 hours ago, Deuzerre said:So i played with someone who had 2 library access in his hand.
so he played an action, got 2 cards, played an other action, got 2 cards, an other action, got 2 cards until he had his whole deck in his hand.
Yay?
Didn't get the deck's reference, but that was just sickening.
Sounds like cheating to me as there are no registered decks with 2x LA...
Did the opponent perhaps play the Library Access, pick it up with something like Neopenthe Seed, then play it again? The effect of Library Access does indeed stack if you can play the same copy multiple times in a turn.
It always makes me smile wryly when folks default to the 'must have been cheating' response rather than looking for further clarification or explanation.
1 minute ago, Hinomura said:Did the opponent perhaps play the Library Access, pick it up with something like Neopenthe Seed, then play it again? The effect of Library Access does indeed stack if you can play the same copy multiple times in a turn.
It always makes me smile wryly when folks default to the 'must have been cheating' response rather than looking for further clarification or explanation.
Well, he did say the opponent had two Library Access's in hand. That's unlikely. I do agree that it's far more likely that the opponent was somehow able to play the same Library Access twice. If so, the OP was simply wrong in their observation. If we assume the OP was correct... shenanigans do seem likely.
There are several ways to play the same Library Access more than once in a given turn. Nepenthe Seed is one common way. A Maverick'd Witch of the Eye (or the ability to use an Untamed creature on a Logos turn) would do the same. Something like a Maverick'd Mimicry when your opponent has played Library Access would allow you to get a second instance going.
Yup, I chalked that up to a possibly incorrect statement and sought clarification - wanted to do that before reaching for the pitchforks, figuratively speaking
1 minute ago, Hinomura said:Yup, I chalked that up to a possibly incorrect statement and sought clarification - wanted to do that before reaching for the pitchforks, figuratively speaking
Yeah, you're right. Always better to clarify.
For a fun comment, I actually did get to play Mimicry on a copy of Library Access once. I started the turn with 6 Untamed cards in hand, played Mimicry on Library Access and then proceeded to have a fun, but kind of weird Untamed Library Access turn. Good times. I can't remember the specifics, but I gained enough aember to use Key Charge AND have enough left over to forge a third key on my following turn. Things like playing a Dust Pixie and then playing the card that bouces creatures back to your hand to play it again and then killing it and using Regrowth to play it again. Lots of bonus aember that turn.
3 hours ago, Deuzerre said:So i played with someone who had 2 library access in his hand.
@Hinomura I personally was posting under the idea that the OP was being truthful.
If the quote above is correct then according to the Keyforge app the opponent was either cheating or playing with an unscanned deck (I find unlikely). With opaque sleeves this is not something that hasn't happened. It's not even an unexpected method of cheating. There have been a number of people who show up or events and don't expect people to even glance at their deck or deck list much less know that 2 LA in a deck is (as far as we know thus far) impossible.
4 hours ago, Krashwire said:@Hinomura I personally was posting under the idea that the OP was being truthful.
If the quote above is correct then according to the Keyforge app the opponent was either cheating or playing with an unscanned deck (I find unlikely). With opaque sleeves this is not something that hasn't happened. It's not even an unexpected method of cheating. There have been a number of people who show up or events and don't expect people to even glance at their deck or deck list much less know that 2 LA in a deck is (as far as we know thus far) impossible.
So far my LGS has only done sealed and it's super casual anyway. But If I ever play in a proper tournament, and my oponent plays anything that's even reemotly OP or part of a combo, I'm asking if I can read their card and check if the deck's name on teh bottom is the same as the one on their Archaon card.
Sorry for not answering. Yeah, it was opaque sleeves (not a big fan of these).
I haven't had the occasion to see that player again and it was at a casual tournament with no registration at a local club.
I've been facing an other decks that allow a full deck in hand though and were legit with nep' seed etc... And the point stands: it ain't fun to face.
4 hours ago, Deuzerre said:Sorry for not answering. Yeah, it was opaque sleeves (not a big fan of these).
I haven't had the occasion to see that player again and it was at a casual tournament with no registration at a local club.
I've been facing an other decks that allow a full deck in hand though and were legit with nep' seed etc... And the point stands: it ain't fun to face.
That’s a different point than: My opponent was playing a deck that has zero precedent in the database. Seems likely they cheated.
Richard Garfield has used Library Access as his example of cards that only have 1 copy of allowed in a deck, given the clear silliness of this combo. It would be great to know the whole list of cards limited to one.
Regardless of sleeves, remember that cards also have the deck name printed on the front. It is good strategic practice to always look over your opponents deck card prior to matches. This is hugely valuable to know as a player, and the regular practice should prevent people from cheating.
That said, if someone wants to cheat at your casual local tournament, good for them. Pretty soon no one will play with them any more, they will have a reputation as a cheater, and you can forget about the whole thing.
4 hours ago, PeterStJ said:It would be great to know the whole list of cards limited to one.
That can be extrapolated relatively easily from the deck data base. Occurrence percentages have become pretty stable there, so the cards that so far only appeared as singletons can be assumed to be algorithm-limited pretty safely.
Ok so I have a question on this so I had some one that played the library card and worm hole card and he only had about 6 cards in his draw deck and around 12 cards in his Richard pile so after playing the library card he put it in his discarded pile, these two cards triggered a loop where he ended up shuffling his discarded pile and redrawing the library card and playing it again so now he is drawing two cards and pulled and played worm hole agian. So by the end he had around 12 cards in his hand.
Yep, I have had that happen. I played LA when the deck was almost empty, reshuffled and played LA again as it was just two cards deep (thanks for the awesome cut opponent!). I ended up drawing my whole deck into hand. Quite fun!
I've played Library Access followed by Reverse Time on my first turn (with two more Logos Cards in hand). That game was over pretty quick ^^
10 hours ago, Palpster said:I've played Library Access followed by Reverse Time on my first turn (with two more Logos Cards in hand). That game was over pretty quick ^^
So what happens exactly? You get to play two Library Access then two more Logos cards so you are drawing 4 more cards right? I can see drawing 8 or 10 cards, but is it looping? Reverse time doesn't get discarded until after you shuffle correct?
14 minutes ago, dpuck1998 said:So what happens exactly? You get to play two Library Access then two more Logos cards so you are drawing 4 more cards right? I can see drawing 8 or 10 cards, but is it looping? Reverse time doesn't get discarded until after you shuffle correct?
It doesn't guarantee to loop but it can if you're lucky on the draws where you have to shuffle your discard into your deck. Even without that it's a decent amount of drawn cards, which can have a snowball effect on the rest of the game.
1. LA is played, LAx1's effect goes into play, LA goes to discard.
2. RT is played, you gain the bonus aember, you draw a card from LAx1 effect, then you switch your discard and library, and then RT goes to the discard pile
3. You play another Logos card, you gain any bonus aember, you draw a card from LAx1 effect (which is guaranteed to be LA), this Logos card goes to discard
4. You play LA a second time, you draw a card from LAx1's effect (which causes a shuffle of discard into draw pile as draw pile is currently empty), LAx2's effect goes into play, you put LA into the discard pile
5. You play another Logos card (if you got lucky with draw in step 4, this is RT again, which takes us back to step 2 in part, but you'll draw 2 cards, ensuring you redraw LA again), you gain an any bonus aember, you draw 2 cards from LAx1+LAx2's effects, you put the Logos card into the discard pile
If you drew another Logos card, then you play that and draw more cards, hoping to grab another Logos card and continue. Hopefully a few of those Logos cards have Play: abilities with draw cards, or Wild Wormhole, to keep the deck moving. It is possible to play RT and LA additional times later on in that cycle.