I genuinely believe that good posts massively outweigh bad posts on this forum. Obviously there is some unrealistic moaning but it's a tiny fraction.

I also don't think Extended is in a particularly bad way, looking through List Fortress for eg, there is still a much greater variety of things being used, and used well, than at the tail end of 1.0. Low key adjustments could go a long way.

People need to be a bit more positive and a bit more aware of their own confirmation bias. Otherwise it really doesn't matter what they change.

6 hours ago, Tvboy said:

If they’re going to make us wait for 6 months to see changes to the game, Id prefer they make changes that have a broad and noticeable impact, unless they somehow do achieve true balance. Especially so for this first update because the game’s in such a sorry state at the moment.

we saw what being cautious with tepid changes achieved when they nerfed the jump masters the first time.

And the second time.

And the third time.

True, but there's is nothing in the current meta that's that problematic. Redline is probably the worst offender, and he can easily be fixed by a points increase. You'd been able to bring three of him, sure, but Redline, Deathrain and a Scimitar isn't a squad people are all that worried about.

12 hours ago, SabineKey said:

200 ESCAPE CRAFT META!

We're gonna need a bigger black hole. . .

Hopefully any big changes will involve increasing ponts on one or two things rather than a game wide point reduction to anything seen as not competitive. Less changes means less chance of a broken combo getting through.

The modest and prudent changes I'd prefer aren't few things being touched, but rather lightly touching lots of stuff.

I can only think of two things which should have a point cost increase more than 2 points:

• E-Wings
  • Down, to allow in the dreaded 3x Knave + Torpedo list, since either it won't be an issue, or we'll call for nerfs, but at least we'll know the E-Wing needed them.
• Han Solo Gunner
  • Up, because he's too cheap.
  • Heck, maybe both Han gunners, since I hate no list more than Roark-Dash... that's a list which shouldn't be able to afford a bid of any kind.

34 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I can only think of two things which should have a point cost increase more than 2 points:

• E-Wings
  • Down, to allow in the dreaded 3x Knave + Torpedo list, since either it won't be an issue, or we'll call for nerfs, but at least we'll know the E-Wing needed them.
• Han Solo Gunner
  • Up, because he's too cheap.
  • Heck, maybe both Han gunners, since I hate no list more than Roark-Dash... that's a list which shouldn't be able to afford a bid of any kind.

Jonus ? Redline ? Palob ? ...

Just now, Giledhil said:

Jonus ? Redline ? Palob ? ...

Vader crew? Whisper? Quad jumpers?

Interesting thread. I just hope the designers are objective and not subjective. Best ways to attempt that IMO are:

1. Don't listen to forum bi*ching, it's subjective by nature.

2. Don't raise the price of a ship or modification simply because it is popular.

3. Don't lower the price of a ship or modification simply because it is not popular.

4. Don't look at ships or modifications that make up the majority of entries into a competitive field. Look at the ones that make up the majority of the cut. Take those and determine the 15%-25% lets say --that have the highest entry to cut ratio-- and mark those for possible increase in points cost, not the others. Do the statistics. Be cautious. But before you do, see #6 below.

5. Look at ships and modifications that aren't being used at all and give them a slight price reduction just to stir the meta pot.

6. Generics by nature and across the board seem to need a price reduction to counter (most likely) the high PS ships that probably are in the top 15% denoted in #4 above. If this is done, the price increase of #4 above may not be needed at all or as much.

7. Err on the side of doing not enough than on doing too much.

8. Most importantly, remember that this is a "Star Wars" game, don't let it devolve into the "Space Ships" game that it became in later 1.0. In other words, if your average Star Wars fan walks in a game store with four or five SW games going on, and after walking through has no idea what the game, you've already lost.

31 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Jonus ? Redline ? Palob ? ...

30 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

Vader crew? Whisper? Quad jumpers?

I think, generally, going up 2 on each of these probably makes a bigger impact that folks might imagine. It can add up quick.

Consider: Vader, Whisper, Juke, Redline, Proton Torpedoes all up 2 points, probably also Soontir (he's not so broken, but Init 6 seems just generally too cheap almost everywhere), maybe Advanced Sensors. The Whisper/Soontir/Redline list is maybe still legal, but pretty much the entire bid has vanished. Putting Palob, Moldy Crow, Quads, 4-LOM, maybe Mist Hunter all up by 2 goes a long way, particularly since Boba Fett probably goes up a hair, and 0-0-0is 5, and Kavil up 2, and Han gunner is probably 8 points now, and Scum is in a really different place.

That's just how I'd do it. Lots of 1 and 2 point adjustments, and a willingness to adjust them again the next round. TIE Bombers up 1 (2 for Jonus), Barrage Rockets up 1, most other missiles down 1, TIE Aggressors and TAP v1s and Rebel A-Wings and Scyks all down 1.

I'd probably iterate faster on the 1 and 2 point adjustments than FFG seems like it will, but it's still my preference. Keep tapping things up or down until they fit together better, rather than a wave of massive nerfs and buffs.

4 hours ago, Okapi said:

True, but there's is nothing in the current meta that's that problematic. Redline is probably the worst offender, and he can easily be fixed by a points increase. You'd been able to bring three of him, sure, but Redline, Deathrain and a Scimitar isn't a squad people are all that worried about.

Sure, I wasn't suggesting something other than points changes. But if they are too conservative with how much they increase the points on things like Redline and Boba, when these ships are commonly being run in lists with 15+ point bids just because they don't need the points, they may not be impactful enough to actually reduce their lion's share of the meta.

23 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Interesting thread. I just hope the designers are objective and not subjective. Best ways to attempt that IMO are:

1. Don't listen to forum bi*ching, it's subjective by nature.

2. Don't raise the price of a ship or modification simply because it is popular.

3. Don't lower the price of a ship or modification simply because it is not popular.

2. Don't look at ships or modifications that make up the majority of entries into a competitive field. Look at the ones that make up the majority of the cut. Take those and determine the 15%-25% lets say --that have the highest entry to cut ratio-- and mark those for possible increase in points cost, not the others. Do the statistics. Be cautious. But before you do, see #6 below.

3. Look at ships and modifications that aren't being used at all and give them a slight price reduction just to stir the meta pot.

6. Generics by nature and across the board seem to need a price reduction to counter (most likely) the high PS ships that probably are in the top 15% denoted in #4 above. If this is done, the price increase of #4 above may not be needed at all or as much.

7. Err on the side of doing not enough than on doing too much.

8. Most importantly, remember that this is a "Star Wars" game, don't let it devolve into the "Space Ships" game that it became in later 1.0. In other words, if your average Star Wars fan walks in a game store with four or five SW games going on, and after walking through has no idea what the game, you've already lost.

Fair points across the board though I have to wonder, is 1-2-3-2-3-6-7 a new dance in your area?

23 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Sure, I wasn't suggesting something other than points changes. But if they are too conservative with how much they increase the points on things like Redline and Boba, when these ships are commonly being run in lists with 15+ point bids just because they don't need the points, they may not be impactful enough to actually reduce their lion's share of the meta.

People are running Boba with a large bid? News to me.

38 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I think, generally, going up 2 on each of these probably makes a bigger impact that folks might imagine. It can add up quick.

Consider: Vader, Whisper, Juke, Redline, Proton Torpedoes all up 2 points, probably also Soontir (he's not so broken, but Init 6 seems just generally too cheap almost everywhere), maybe Advanced Sensors. The Whisper/Soontir/Redline list is maybe still legal, but pretty much the entire bid has vanished. Putting Palob, Moldy Crow, Quads, 4-LOM, maybe Mist Hunter all up by 2 goes a long way, particularly since Boba Fett probably goes up a hair, and 0-0-0is 5, and Kavil up 2, and Han gunner is probably 8 points now, and Scum is in a really different place.

That's just how I'd do it. Lots of 1 and 2 point adjustments, and a willingness to adjust them again the next round. TIE Bombers up 1 (2 for Jonus), Barrage Rockets up 1, most other missiles down 1, TIE Aggressors and TAP v1s and Rebel A-Wings and Scyks all down 1.

I'd probably iterate faster on the 1 and 2 point adjustments than FFG seems like it will, but it's still my preference. Keep tapping things up or down until they fit together better, rather than a wave of massive nerfs and buffs.

I agree that a lot of the changes can be done by going 2 points in either direction but I think there is way more than 2 things that need more. If Phantoms keep the crew slot then Vader has to go up by 10 at minimum to have any effect on Whisper. Redline is in the same boat. If he only goes up 4-6 points he will continue to be a staple in every Imperial list.

7 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

I agree that a lot of the changes can be done by going 2 points in either direction but I think there is way more than 2 things that need more. If Phantoms keep the crew slot then Vader has to go up by 10 at minimum to have any effect on Whisper. Redline is in the same boat. If he only goes up 4-6 points he will continue to be a staple in every Imperial list.

It's fine if things continue to be staples. The goal of these increases shouldn't be to completely blast these cards out of the game. Otherwise, you may as well just ban them and be done with it. The target here should just be to make them less clear-cut over the other options out there, while making under-performing cards more appealing.

28 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

People are running Boba with a large bid? News to me.

I'm probably thinking of Boba/Guri specifically. Maybe it's not popular anymore, but I know it was a strong list in the first couple of months in extended. Boba's low cost affords the deep bid that Guri needs without compromising the list's power.

I'm getting hotdogs and marshmallows ready.

8 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

I'm getting hotdogs and marshmallows ready.

Don't forget the popcorn. Stove top pop should work nicely.