Here’s my attempt at implementing a gunner to x wing second edition that’ll help target acquisition with turrets that won’t be utterly broken or turn it into a 360 degree turret.

Basically, what this gunner will do is broaden your 90 degree arc to 180 degrees, but if the shot isn’t made in the 90 degree arc, you can’t mod your dice and the opponent rolls an extra defense die, portraying the gunner frantically rotating the turret to get a potshot in.

To clarify what I meant, a ship pointing it’s turret arc left with this gunner equipped would be able to make regular turret attacks in it’s left arc and penalized turret attacks in the left half of it’s front and rear arcs.

Obviously, this gunner would need to be restricted from being equipped onto dual arc turrets less we get 360 arcs again, or:

(1) Turns dual arc turrets into single arc turrets with this gunner equipped.

(2) Has a different effect on dual arc ships, turning them into single arc 180 degree turrets without penalties.

As for cost I’m not so sure, but I’d say maybe around 9 points, but I’ve only tested this in a couple games.

I was also thinking about adding to the ability something along the lines of “after performing a turret attack, rotate the turret to the arc the target of the attack is in” so that since, the gunner had rotated to fire in another arc, the turret should now be facing that arc now.

I’d love to hear your opinions or ideas on this and have you guys test this out!

I'd rather one that simply just lets you change a blank to a focus.

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I'd rather one that simply just lets you change a blank to a focus.

I'd like a gunner that improves attacks in general as well. I’m confident they’ll add one considering the simplicity.

16 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I'd rather one that simply just lets you change a blank to a focus.

Have you tried Rey?

Frankly, I'd just like to see something like:

Linked Gunner ( ~20pts +?) : Ships with [Dual Arc] only . You must replace your [Dual Arc] with a [Mobile Arc]. At the end of the combat phase, you may perform an attack from your [mobile arc], even if you have already attacked from that [mobile arc] this round.


It's crystal clear from the tournament data that the only success Large-Based Turrets are having right now is the occasional blip from Dash + Roarke. This confirms that large-based turrets are so over-costed in the 2.0 Extended Environment that the only way they can find success is to squeeze out two attacks per round, which starts to approximate doubling their offensive output. Even then, it's not like Dash+Roarke has redefined the meta or proven to be unstoppable... it's barely making ripples.

So large-based turrets need something drastic to put them onto the table, which seems to be doubling their offensive potential, and they need to be able to do it without Roarke (so that the Decimator can do it and so that list building isn't locked to Ship + Roarke). This sort of suggested Gunner Fix forces the Large-Turret to give up half of its arc coverage and has the opportunity cost of losing other Gunners. As proposed here, it also prevents the sort of PS7 double-tap that allows Dash+Roarke to wipe ships before they can attack.


Short of something like this, or an absurd price reduction at the end of the January, I really don't see the large-based turrets finding a home in the meta (outside of the occasional cheap Scum Falcon build, where the ship chassis is so cheap it can be utilized effectively from time to time). But a large ship that is half of your list and only attacks once in this 2.0 Era? Forget about it.

The trouble is, where and when would FFG introduce a new Gunner card designed to buff the Large-Based dual turret ships? The Rebel Falcon re-release is probably already being packed up, assuming it's the next ship to release for Rebels given it appears in Hyperspace Format? I also doubt it will have any new cards, because the cries and moans of players who bought conversion kits having to buy ANOTHER Falcon (number 4?) would be unbearable. Resistance, First Order, Republic, and Separatists likely don't have any forthcoming dual-turreted ships, or at least I can't think of any in the fluff.

This means such a "fix" card could only appear in the YT-2400 or Decimator 2.0 re-release, and I wouldn't hold my breath for either of those "Legends" ships anytime soon, and given that apparently there's rumors now that not all 1.0 ships will get a 2.0 re-release...

6 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Frankly, I'd just like to see something like:

Linked Gunner ( ~20pts +?) : Ships with [Dual Arc] only . You must replace your [Dual Arc] with a [Mobile Arc]. At the end of the combat phase, you may perform an attack from your [mobile arc], even if you have already attacked from that [mobile arc] this round.


It's crystal clear from the tournament data that the only success Large-Based Turrets are having right now is the occasional blip from Dash + Roarke. This confirms that large-based turrets are so over-costed in the 2.0 Extended Environment that the only way they can find success is to squeeze out two attacks per round, which starts to approximate doubling their offensive output. Even then, it's not like Dash+Roarke has redefined the meta or proven to be unstoppable... it's barely making ripples.

So large-based turrets need something drastic to put them onto the table, which seems to be doubling their offensive potential, and they need to be able to do it without Roarke (so that the Decimator can do it and so that list building isn't locked to Ship + Roarke). This sort of suggested Gunner Fix forces the Large-Turret to give up half of its arc coverage and has the opportunity cost of losing other Gunners. As proposed here, it also prevents the sort of PS7 double-tap that allows Dash+Roarke to wipe ships before they can attack.


Short of something like this, or an absurd price reduction at the end of the January, I really don't see the large-based turrets finding a home in the meta (outside of the occasional cheap Scum Falcon build, where the ship chassis is so cheap it can be utilized effectively from time to time). But a large ship that is half of your list and only attacks once in this 2.0 Era? Forget about it.

Sounds great! Though I was anticipating a cost decrease for large ships anyways, it still probably wouldn't be enough. I assume that they overpriced large ships on purpose at the beginning as a precaution and had planned to lower the cost later on, or at least it seems so.

12 hours ago, SystemDowngrade said:

Here’s my attempt at implementing a gunner to x wing second edition that’ll help target acquisition with turrets that won’t be utterly broken or turn it into a 360 degree turret.

Basically, what this gunner will do is broaden your 90 degree arc to 180 degrees, but if the shot isn’t made in the 90 degree arc, you can’t mod your dice and the opponent rolls an extra defense die, portraying the gunner frantically rotating the turret to get a potshot in.

To clarify what I meant, a ship pointing it’s turret arc left with this gunner equipped would be able to make regular turret attacks in it’s left arc and penalized turret attacks in the left half of it’s front and rear arcs.

It could work - as noted, it's 'expanding' your arc of fire. Rather than creating an excessively wordy card, I'd make it only work front or rear 180 (which is still good) because those 'full arcs' have already been defined to support reinforce and exist in the rules reference, and rather than stopping you modding the dice if you do so, why not simply make spending the token the cost to trigger it?

Observant Gunner

Gunner

Prerequisite: , Small or Medium Ship

Before you perform a attack, if your is aligned with your or , you may spend to treat your or respectively as your turret arc instead.

12 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I'd rather one that simply just lets you change a blank to a focus.

I get the sentiment, but that would not be good for the game. That way we get 1.0 back. Passive modifications should be extremely rare because they are so good and auto-include.

We already got some with wave 2, which I see as mistake. At least they are faction limited powercreep.

13 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I'd rather one that simply just lets you change a blank to a focus.

13 hours ago, SystemDowngrade said:

I'd like a gunner that improves attacks in general as well. I’m confident they’ll add one considering the simplicity.

You 1.0 players and your passive mods

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I get the sentiment, but that would not be good for the game. That way we get 1.0 back. Passive modifications should be extremely rare because they are so good and auto-include.

We already got some with wave 2, which I see as mistake. At least they are faction limited powercreep.

I think the idea is that if large bases are going to cost as much as two capable small bases, then perhaps they should be able to get passive mods to make up for the gap in offence.

It would be very possible to limit such a gunner or other upgrade to large base only, and then cost it appropriately.

You would then have list building decisions along the lines of "do I take one 3 attack ship that consistently puts out 2-3 damage, or two 3 attack ships that have a chance to do anywhere from 0-6?" You would build on that with crew and support options for the large base.

The simpler solution might just be to drastically reduce the cost of the large base ships as bare frames and tax them with expensive upgrades instead, but that runs the risk of stat abuse, IMO. 3xUpsilion is potentially already an example of that.

Also, I don't believe passive dice mods that still require a token to actually do something are anywhere near as bad as auto results. Most large base ships are very easy to block, and if you can either deny the large base a focus token by blocking, or force them to have to build a list heavily dependent on token passing synergy to get around the possibility then I think something like one blank to an eye would still be very beatable.

Don't forget you could also limit the effect to primary only to prevent ion control or ordnance abuse.

Woah.

Re: Large Ships

Large ships simply need to be priced appropriately. Let’s snap out of the “fix card” mindset of Ye Olde Days. The only reason they currently need to double their offensive output is because they are costed at double the value of a small ship. If you reduce that even slightly, so that a large ship costs, say, roughly 1.7 small ships, then they don’t necessarily need to double their offensive output. Maybe they’re more survivable. Maybe they buff their offense some, like Guac suggests, without actually making two attacks.

No doubt they were taxed for being relatively powerful at the end of 1e, and such taxes should begin to lift with this January points change. I’m not saying they’ll disappear entirely, but I think FFG fully intends to work backwards on some prices that they intentionally jacked up (or left cheap) for sake of getting away from 1e stigmas (or selling new products.)

Re: Gunners

Gunners are crew that deal with secondary weapons. I don’t have time to look through them all right now, but mostly just the VTG’s (Turret or Tail) give you benefits without having a secondary weapon attached to your ship, and those primary weapon turrets or rear arcs are practically a second weapon to begin with. While a passive mod gunner might not be terrible, I think it’s best if they keep their focus on secondary weapons of some sort. Like an ordinance gunner, for example, could be a really cool tool for K-Wings and Punishers, and you might see missiles on the Falcon a bit more often. I’m just spit-balling, but I guess my point is: don’t just cram abilities into slots without thinking about what that slot represents.

How about a gunner that lets you re-roll a focus result? A relatively minor effect for a cheap-ish gunner for things like Y-wings, TIE bombers, TIE agressors etc is something I would like to see. It doesn't combo well with the Focus or Lock actions and thus most useful if your action was something else, like barrel roll or rotate arc.

13 minutes ago, Rossetti1828 said:

How about a gunner that lets you re-roll a focus result? A relatively minor effect for a cheap-ish gunner for things like Y-wings, TIE bombers, TIE agressors etc is something I would like to see. It doesn't combo well with the Focus or Lock actions and thus most useful if your action was something else, like barrel roll or rotate arc.

Wired Gunner -When attacking, if you are Stressed, you may re-roll your "Focus" results.

Defensive gunner

If you are hit by an attack outside of your , you may spend a focus token to roate your to that attacker.

Could be fun for low Initiative turret ships. The lack of focus token for the attack keeps it from being over powered (opinion).

2 hours ago, Rossetti1828 said:

How about a gunner that lets you re-roll a focus result? A relatively minor effect for a cheap-ish gunner for things like Y-wings, TIE bombers, TIE agressors etc is something I would like to see. It doesn't combo well with the Focus or Lock actions and thus most useful if your action was something else, like barrel roll or rotate arc.

I like this better

plus, I could make an alt-art titled "Distracted Gunner"

How about a gunner that can fire a second time, after failing the first shot?

That would be great...

I have also got an idea about a new turret.

Range 2-3 into all 4 directions. It has got 3 dice and shoots twice per attack, but it can only get 2 hits max.

I call it LTT -> Laser Turret Twin

8 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

How about a gunner that can fire a second time, after failing the first shot? 

That would be great...

I have also got an idea about a new turret.

Range 2-3 into all 4 directions. It has got 3 dice and shoots twice per attack, but it can only get 2 hits max.

I call it LTT -> Laser Turret Twin

Bossk is already in the game, thankfully TLT isn't. Your satire is a little in bad taste, though you're welcome to present it.

5 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Woah.

Re: Large Ships

Large ships simply need to be priced appropriately. Let’s snap out of the “fix card” mindset of Ye Olde Days. The only reason they currently need to double their offensive output is because they are costed at double the value of a small ship. If you reduce that even slightly, so that a large ship costs, say, roughly 1.7 small ships, then they don’t necessarily need to double their offensive output. Maybe they’re more survivable. Maybe they buff their offense some, like Guac suggests, without actually making two attacks.

No doubt they were taxed for being relatively powerful at the end of 1e, and such taxes should begin to lift with this January points change. I’m not saying they’ll disappear entirely, but I think FFG fully intends to work backwards on some prices that they intentionally jacked up (or left cheap) for sake of getting away from 1e stigmas (or selling new products.)

Re: Gunners

Gunners are crew that deal with secondary weapons. I don’t have time to look through them all right now, but mostly just the VTG’s (Turret or Tail) give you benefits without having a secondary weapon attached to your ship, and those primary weapon turrets or rear arcs are practically a second weapon to begin with. While a passive mod gunner might not be terrible, I think it’s best if they keep their focus on secondary weapons of some sort. Like an ordinance gunner, for example, could be a really cool tool for K-Wings and Punishers, and you might see missiles on the Falcon a bit more often. I’m just spit-balling, but I guess my point is: don’t just cram abilities into slots without thinking about what that slot represents.

Ordinance gunner sounds cool.

It would still require a lock but double attack is good (limited to ordinance charges though)

What about a gunner giving you a target lock on a ship you hit?

Ordnance Speciallist (4pts)

If you have an active charge on at least one of your [missile] or [torpedo] upgrade cards, after you fully execute a blue or white maneuver, you may preform a [Lock] action on an object inside your [bullseye arc].

I would like a Gunner that doesn't reference Mobile/Secondary Firing Arcs for my lovely TIE Strikers!

1 hour ago, C3gorach said:

I would like a Gunner that doesn't reference Mobile/Secondary Firing Arcs for my lovely TIE Strikers!

You've got skilled bombadier and fifth brother

2 hours ago, gadwag said:

You've got skilled bombadier and fifth brother

Let me reiterate, I meant something useful... 😌

15 hours ago, impspy said:

Wired Gunner -When attacking, if you are Stressed, you may re-roll your "Focus" results.

Nice. Wired was always a nice, cheap upgrade and I'd love to see it back since it never felt that powerful (especially since making it a gunner means it's not going to pop up on Silencers, Interceptors, Fangs and the like). You might want to consider making "when you make a special attack..." if you don't want it to be primary weapon. Speaking from experience, TIE strikers would jump all over this like starving wolves (I know I would basically staple the darn thing to the pilot card) - the ability for non-elite strikers to get wired (given that they segnor a lot) is incredibly powerful, so you'd have to be very careful with costing this - if a generic I1 striker carrying this is limited to nothing else, or, say, seismic charges, fine. If you can pack it alongside a hull upgrade, it's going to be much more problematic.

14 hours ago, BDrafty said:

Defensive gunner

If you are hit by an attack outside of your , you may spend a focus token to roate your to that attacker.

Could be fun for low Initiative turret ships. The lack of focus token for the attack keeps it from being over powered (opinion).

I would agree on something like a Y-wing. You're essentially trading one action (focus) for another (rotate) when a negative condition occurs (being shot at). It's in the same league as pilots who generate bonus attacks (Dengar) or actions (Rudor) when shot at, but since there's an action cost, it's weaker and therefore cheaper, and more suited for a generic upgrade. Arc dodgers will hate it, but using it does mean not spending their focus token on either their defence roll or their return fire, so there is a degree of payback. My main concern? YT-2400s. With both a crew and gunner slot, they can equip a crew which generates dice modification (Magva Yarro springs to mind) and this upgrade, meaning that their arc becomes unavoidable by higher initiative aces like Vader, Soontir, Wedge, Poe or Fenn - if you avoid the Outrider's arc, the moment you shoot it, it acquires a free lock on you and swings those bloody 4-dice twin heavy lasers to bear.

7 hours ago, intoxicatedALF said:

Ordnance Speciallist (4pts)

If you have an active charge on at least one of your [missile] or [torpedo] upgrade cards, after you fully execute a blue or white maneuver, you may preform a [Lock] action on an object inside your [bullseye arc].

Basically Torani Kulda from 1st edition. K4 was very powerful in 1st edition, and that was with a restriction to green (now blue) moves, not just non-red moves. This is extremely powerful and I think worth much more than 4 points - lining up a bullseye on a ship that hasn't moved yet isn't that hard if you've got your full white dial available, and that then gives you a focus/locked torpedo, even if the target has subsequently moved out of your bullseye arc.

Note that Torani's ability triggered in the combat phase, so you needed not just to turn and point at a higher pilot skill enemy ship but be pointed where it ended the movement phase. Something similar - a gunner with a charge that you can spend at the start of the engagement phase to target lock an enemy ship in your sounds not unreasonable. Not sure about the price.

These are all cool ideas.... or bad ones.

Just keep in mind, we don't want anything close to a 360 arc on a ship and the game warrants the mobile arc player make a choice without absolute knowledge as that is a great game mechanic. keep an actual game in the game please. Thanks from the peanut gallery.