Just now, Kyla said:

I have to disagree. The only source stating Ashoka's lack of being Jedi was provenance for the white lightsabers was Dave Filoni, who specifically said, "the white blades reflect her non-affiliation with either side." However, this was outside the context of canon and done as a discussion during the design and development of the character for Rebels. It speaks to what he was thinking when he wanted to give her uniqueness.

The canon was what was written in the book Ashoka, which states that the crystals were "healed" and upon being healed emitted a white blade. The book makes no determination that it was Ahsoka's separation from the Jedi that was the root cause, merely the healing of the crystals. While Dave Filoni may have intended that to be the case when he made the design choice for the color, that has nothing to do with the in-universe reason for it.

Yes, the blades were healed, which is why they stopped being red. However, given that Dave Faloni is one of the people specifically in charge of the canon, and he created Ahsoka, if he says that the reason why they turned white instead of some other color, is because she wasn't a Jedi, then, barring any contradicting information within the story, that is the reason why they were white. The Ahsoka novel doesn't contradict Faloni's statements regarding Ahsoka's crystals. And, in Rebels , she does say the reason why her blades are white was because she isn't a Jedi.

9 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, the blades were healed, which is why they stopped being red. However, given that Dave Faloni is one of the people specifically in charge of the canon, and he created Ahsoka, if he says that the reason why they turned white instead of some other color, is because she wasn't a Jedi, then, barring any contradicting information within the story, that is the reason why they were white. The Ahsoka novel doesn't contradict Faloni's statements regarding Ahsoka's crystals. And, in Rebels , she does say the reason why her blades are white was because she isn't a Jedi.

All well and good, but Dave Filoni never said it was the in-character reason, only that he decided he wanted to distinguish Ahsoka from being Jedi and Sith and that is why HE chose it. Nothing in that interview said it was the in-universe reason.

You can absolutely decide that is what you want your head-canon to be, and more power to you, but that's a far cry from irrefutable fact.

Oh, and in point of fact, she doesn't say in Rebels her white lightsabers are because she isn't a Jedi. Her statement of "I am no Jedi" is in response to Vader's accusation that she was a Jedi .

edit: refutation of Rebels quoting reason for white lightsabers

3 minutes ago, Kyla said:

All well and good, but Dave Filoni never said it was the in-character reason, only that he decided he wanted to distinguish Ahsoka from being Jedi and Sith and that is why HE chose it. Nothing in that interview said it was the in-universe reason.

You can absolutely decide that is what you want your head-canon to be, and more power to you, but that's a far cry from irrefutable fact.

This seems pretty obvious to me. I think it's a good example of narrative driven vs mechanics driven, actually. The narrative inspired "GM" wanted Ahsoka to have white blades, so he massaged the mechanics to make it fit.

10 minutes ago, Kyla said:

All well and good, but Dave Filoni never said it was the in-character reason, only that he decided he wanted to distinguish Ahsoka from being Jedi and Sith and that is why HE chose it. Nothing in that interview said it was the in-universe reason.

You can absolutely decide that is what you want your head-canon to be, and more power to you, but that's a far cry from irrefutable fact.

Oh, and in point of fact, she doesn't say in Rebels her white lightsabers are because she isn't a Jedi. Her statement of "I am no Jedi" is in response to Vader's accusation that she was a Jedi .

edit: refutation of Rebels quoting reason for white lightsabers

She has actually stated on numerous occasions throughout the series that she wasn't a Jedi, not only to Vader when she fought him, but before, including to Ezra and Kanan.

Well, white is nothing more than a combination of red, blue, and green light together, so it fits for the padawan that has everything.

2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

3 hours ago, Kyla said:

Oh, and in point of fact, she doesn't say in Rebels her white lightsabers are because she isn't a Jedi. Her statement of "I am no Jedi" is in response to Vader's accusation that she was a Jedi .

edit: refutation of Rebels quoting reason for white lightsabers

She has actually stated on numerous occasions throughout the series that she wasn't a Jedi, not only to Vader when she fought him, but before, including to Ezra and Kanan.

That's... still just a claim that she's not a Jedi... not that her blade color is because she's not a Jedi. Kyla's point still stands.

4 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, the blades were healed, which is why they stopped being red. However, given that Dave Faloni is one of the people specifically in charge of the canon, and he created Ahsoka, if he says that the reason why they turned white instead of some other color, is because she wasn't a Jedi, then, barring any contradicting information within the story, that is the reason why they were white. The Ahsoka novel doesn't contradict Faloni's statements regarding Ahsoka's crystals. And, in Rebels , she does say the reason why her blades are white was because she isn't a Jedi.

It's the same as SLJ's purple. It was a design choice, like Filoni's, but it is explained in universe. (Showing his dangerous relationship with the dark side through vaapad).

13 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

And, in Rebels , she does say the reason why her blades are white was because she isn't a Jedi.

I get where you're coming from, and I don't disagree. However, Ahsoka never comments on her lightsabers' color in Rebels . No one, in fact, comments on her lightsabers' color.

Personally, I tend to lean towards Kyla's point of view. While I don't discount Filoni's statements, it's true that it's not backed up by anything explicitly in canon. So while it's perfectly valid to see Ahsoka's color of lightsabers be a result of her lack of affiliation—since she does repeatedly deny being a Jedi, and as the only non-Jedi, non-Sith lightsaber wielder we've seen she's also the only one with white lightsabers—it's also perfectly valid to see the color as the result of something else.

And honestly, even if she had stated outright, "My blades are white because I'm neither a Jedi nor a Sith," that's just, like, her opinion, man. Attuning a lightsaber crystal doesn't automatically give you encyclopedic knowledge of the process. She might believe that's why her blades are white, but there's nothing to suggest that's objective truth.

It's a lot like the Nightsisters in The Clone Wars . Filoni said he believes they use actual magic, separate from the Force, and Mother Talzin says as much. But Mace Windu takes the opposite stance, saying that their magic is actually the Force, just used differently than how the Jedi do it. The show itself, and thus canon, don't answer it definitively either way, leaving it up to us to decide what's true. (For what it's worth, I tend to treat it as being the Force. It keeps things easy, both mechanically and narratively.)

Until we see at least one other another individual (maybe more) purify a corrupted blade, we simply do not have enough information to make a conclusion about this. Just because Ahsoka's purified blade turns white does not mean everyone’s will. They might, they might not. We simply do not have enough information to know, canon wise, as usual at your table it is your decision.

7 hours ago, CaptainRaspberry said:

I get where you're coming from, and I don't disagree. However, Ahsoka never comments on her lightsabers' color in Rebels . No one, in fact, comments on her lightsabers' color.

Personally, I tend to lean towards Kyla's point of view. While I don't discount Filoni's statements, it's true that it's not backed up by anything explicitly in canon. So while it's perfectly valid to see Ahsoka's color of lightsabers be a result of her lack of affiliation—since she does repeatedly deny being a Jedi, and as the only non-Jedi, non-Sith lightsaber wielder we've seen she's also the only one with white lightsabers—it's also perfectly valid to see the color as the result of something else.

And honestly, even if she had stated outright, "My blades are white because I'm neither a Jedi nor a Sith," that's just, like, her opinion, man. Attuning a lightsaber crystal doesn't automatically give you encyclopedic knowledge of the process. She might believe that's why her blades are white, but there's nothing to suggest that's objective truth.

It's a lot like the Nightsisters in The Clone Wars . Filoni said he believes they use actual magic, separate from the Force, and Mother Talzin says as much. But Mace Windu takes the opposite stance, saying that their magic is actually the Force, just used differently than how the Jedi do it. The show itself, and thus canon, don't answer it definitively either way, leaving it up to us to decide what's true. (For what it's worth, I tend to treat it as being the Force. It keeps things easy, both mechanically and narratively.)

As I said, Dave Faloni is a leading member of the Lucasfilm Story group, and was GL's hand-picked protege. He's one of the people specifically in charge of making canon. And, his statement isn't contradicted by anything in the stories.

6 hours ago, DarthKaage said:

Until we see at least one other another individual (maybe more) purify a corrupted blade, we simply do not have enough information to make a conclusion about this. Just because Ahsoka's purified blade turns white does not mean everyone’s will. They might, they might not. We simply do not have enough information to know, canon wise, as usual at your table it is your decision.

Precisely. What we have is the word of one of the creators of Star Wars canon; specifically the guy who created Ahsoka and who GL himself picked as his protege.

15 hours ago, Rimsen said:

It's the same as SLJ's purple. It was a design choice, like Filoni's, but it is explained in universe. (Showing his dangerous relationship with the dark side through vaapad).

Exactly.

On 1/18/2019 at 8:59 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

As I said, Dave Faloni is a leading member of the Lucasfilm Story group, and was GL's hand-picked protege. He's one of the people specifically in charge of making canon. And, his statement isn't contradicted by anything in the stories.

Precisely. What we have is the word of one of the creators of Star Wars canon; specifically the guy who created Ahsoka and who GL himself picked as his protege.

Well, the problem here is that particular nugget, while he said it, wasn't put into canon.

I mean if I make a Star Wars film and put the main character in a bright yellow x-wing and explain in an interview that I made that choice to make her to stand out from the crowd, the in-universe canon reason is not that she was trying to stand out from the crowd.

The thing with canon is, it needs to be put into the works to count.

6 hours ago, penpenpen said:

Well, the problem here is that particular nugget, while he said it, wasn't put into canon.

I mean if I make a Star Wars film and put the main character in a bright yellow x-wing and explain in an interview that I made that choice to make her to stand out from the crowd, the in-universe canon reason is not that she was trying to stand out from the crowd.

The thing with canon is, it needs to be put into the works to count.

Making someone stand out is an " out of universe " reason. Having the blades white because she's not a Jedi is an "in universe " reason. That's a huge difference.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Making someone stand out is an " out of universe " reason. Having the blades white because she's not a Jedi is an "in universe " reason. That's a huge difference.

Meanwhile , having the blades white because she's not a Jedi has not been stated as an "in universe" reason. ( Man , you know, these random bolded words, do make a huge difference, don't they ? 😛 )

1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:

Meanwhile , having the blades white because she's not a Jedi has not been stated as an "in universe" reason. ( Man , you know, these random bolded words, do make a huge difference, don't they ? 😛 )

Yes, it has. Whether or not someone within a given story stated as much, it was given as an in universe reason by the creator of the character.

14 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, it has. Whether or not someone within a given story stated as much, it was given as an in universe reason by the creator of the character.

Hmmm ...yet in the past, you've been very quick to dismiss Filoni's (and Lucas') behind-the-scenes statements that Jango Fett (and, by extension , Boba) aren't Mandalorians because the only time "someone within a given story stated as much " was under circumstances that you find questionable. So, you'll have to clarify something for me: when do we take the creative personnel at their word , and when must we have on-screen forensic investigations into story/character elements to confirm or deny them ?

Different circumstances. In the case of Jango Fett, we do have a number of in universe references within the lore which explicitly state that he was from Concord Dawn, a Mandalorian colony. Thus, there is contradictory information within the lore itself in that situation.

In the case of Ahsoka’s lightsaber crystals, we have no such conflict of lore within the fiction itself, thus, lacking anything to the contrary , we have to go by Faloni’s in universe explanation for why her crystals create white blades. That is the difference here. With Jango, and by extension Boba, we have contradictory information within the canon and other lore regarding their status as “Mandalorian”, namely that Jango was from Concord Dawn. With Ahsoka’s lightsabers, we don’t have that issue. There is nothing in the lore itself which contradicts Faloni’s in universe explanation for the color of Ahsoka’s lightsaber blades.

27 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Different circumstances. In the case of Jango Fett, we do have a number of in universe references within the lore which explicitly state that he was from Concord Dawn, a Mandalorian colony. Thus, there is contradictory information within the lore itself in that situation.

They certainly are different circumstances. One is word from the folks in charge of these decisions making one that you want to ignore; the other is them making one that you want to accept. There were also "a number of in universe references " to entirely different and contradictory backstories for Boba even before the prequels were a thing . As of now, that "number of in universe references " are null and void. Per Filoni and Lucas (the latter being , you know, the character's creator, since you hang a lot of suppositions about Ahsoka's saber color on statements made from her creator), Jango Fett is not, and never has been Mandalorian . Full stop. End of line.

32 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

In the case of Ahsoka’s lightsaber crystals, we have no such conflict of lore within the fiction itself, thus, lacking anything to the contrary , we have to go by Faloni’s in universe explanation for why her crystals create white blades. That is the difference here. With Jango, and by extension Boba, we have contradictory information within the canon and other lore regarding their status as “Mandalorian”, namely that Jango was from Concord Dawn. With Ahsoka’s lightsabers, we don’t have that issue. There is nothing in the lore itself which contradicts Faloni’s in universe explanation for the color of Ahsoka’s lightsaber blades.

No such conflict exists for the Fetts, either. We don't have " contradictory information within the canon." The canon, as it stands, has exactly one statement regarding Jango's origins : that he's not Mandalorian.

And who's this "Faloni" you keep referring to? I bet Dave Filoni would be curious as to why you keep attributing Ahsoka's creation to this other guy and take his word as gospel. 😛

No, we still have canon information which has Jango Fett having been from Concord Dawn, which, as you know, is a Mandalorian colony world. This is a key factor in that issue regarding his status as Mandalorian.

There is also the factor of whether someone is Mandalorian by blood or simply by culture . Jango Fett has been stated in the lore to have been adopted and raised into Mandalorian culture of a Mandalorian colony world; he’s not native born from Mandalore proper. As such we have actual in universe sources that establishes Jango Fett as at least culturally Mandalorian, even if not native born. This makes Faloni’s statements regarding his Mandalorian status (or potential lack thereof) to be both true and false, depending upon what you mean by Mandalorian.

In Ahsoka’s case, we have no such contradictory information within the lore for why her crystals became white instead of a more “traditional” blue or green (which would have been the crystals’ color before being bled). All we have is Faloni’s statement for the in universe reason, that being that she wasn’t a Jedi, something she explicitly states on a number of occasions within the canon. Nothing within the lore contradicts this statement. As such, unless something else comes along to do so, we can take Faloni’s word for it as fact.

6 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Nothing    within the lore contradicts this statement        .  A  s such, unless something else comes along to do  so, we can take Faloni’s word for it as fact.

No, that means we can take his word for it as a possibility.

A fact is something completely indisputeable.

Look, if you took the time and effort to properly read the replies you get you'd realize that noone is saying that FILONI 's statement is definitely wrong, only that it's not definetly right as the canon is still open to interpreting it otherwise in the future without making it a retcon.

Compare it to J.K. Rowling announcing that Dumbledore was gay. Until it was (kinda sort of reluctantly) shown in Crimes of Grindelwald , it wasn't canon. The big difference here is that Rowling has extensive, franchise-wide creative control and FILONI only deals with the animation part of Star Wars. Meaning that he can be overridden by book authors, comic writers and filmmakers if Lucasfilm has a better idea later on.

12 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

No, we still have canon information which has Jango Fett having been from Concord Dawn, which, as you know, is a Mandalorian colony world. This is a key factor in that issue regarding his status as Mandalorian.

And I'm sure you can cite the source(s) of this alleged canon information , keeping in mind what constitutes the current canon. Right? From the cursory review I've given canon material on the subject, there is precisely one dialogue exchange on the matter, which , taking the same sort of behind-the-scenes comments into account on the subject that appear to etch the reasoning for Ahsoka's lightsaber color in stone for you, was included for precisely the purpose of establishing canonically that Jango isn't Mandalorian.

12 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

There is also the factor of whether someone is Mandalorian by blood or simply by culture . Jango Fett has been stated in the lore to have been adopted and raised into Mandalorian culture of a Mandalorian colony world; he’s not native born from Mandalore proper. As such we have actual in universe sources that establishes Jango Fett as at least culturally Mandalorian, even if not native born. This makes Faloni’s statements regarding his Mandalorian status (or potential lack thereof) to be both true and false, depending upon what you mean by Mandalorian.

Ah, the old "Certain Point of View" (TM). Remember...Obi-Wan first invoked that phrase to justify being a big, fat, dirty liar. Filoni, Lucas, and Pablo Hidalgo have all been pretty clear in their statements on the subject : Jango isn't Mandalorian. Period. No " Certain Point of View. " No conditional statements . Hidalgo did say, "The Fetts aren't Mandalorian, though I suppose Jango claimed to be from Concord Dawn at some point ."

12 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

In Ahsoka’s case, we have no such contradictory information within the lore for why her crystals became white instead of a more “traditional” blue or green (which would have been the crystals’ color before being bled). All we have is Faloni’s statement for the in universe reason, that being that she wasn’t a Jedi, something she explicitly states on a number of occasions within the canon. Nothing within the lore contradicts this statement. As such, unless something else comes along to do so, we can take Faloni’s word for it as fact.

And, again, there's also no contradictory information in the ancillary media (novels, comics, etc) currently accepted into canon regarding Jango's origins.

As penpenpen noted, no one is saying that it's not possible for that being the in-story reason for Ahsoka's lightsaber color. Simply that, as it stands , there's also no supporting information in-story. Ahsoka "cleansed" Inquisitor crystals. The resulting lightsaber blades were white. That's all we know.

But, apparently , the word of people responsible for making these decisions for the franchise should be taken as the last word for certain subjects, but not others.

And I'm still curious as to who this "Faloni" guy is, and what connection he has to Star Wars. Is he like Old MC, THE best Young MC impersonator on the circuit ? 😜

Bust a move.

Please stop committing random acts of bolding. I ignore Tramp (in part) because of it, and I hate seeing others imitate that crude style of posting.

I think everyone else was bolding so much in order to satirize Tramp Graphics, but I might be mistaken.

11 hours ago, penpenpen said:

No, that means we can take his word for it as a possibility.

A fact is something completely indisputeable.

Look, if you took the time and effort to properly read the replies you get you'd realize that noone is saying that FILONI 's statement is definitely wrong, only that it's not definetly right as the canon is still open to interpreting it otherwise in the future without making it a retcon.

Compare it to J.K. Rowling announcing that Dumbledore was gay. Until it was (kinda sort of reluctantly) shown in Crimes of Grindelwald , it wasn't canon. The big difference here is that Rowling has extensive, franchise-wide creative control and FILONI only deals with the animation part of Star Wars. Meaning that he can be overridden by book authors, comic writers and filmmakers if Lucasfilm has a better idea later on.

5 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

And I'm sure you can cite the source(s) of this alleged canon information , keeping in mind what constitutes the current canon. Right? From the cursory review I've given canon material on the subject, there is precisely one dialogue exchange on the matter, which , taking the same sort of behind-the-scenes comments into account on the subject that appear to etch the reasoning for Ahsoka's lightsaber color in stone for you, was included for precisely the purpose of establishing canonically that Jango isn't Mandalorian.

Ah, the old "Certain Point of View" (TM). Remember...Obi-Wan first invoked that phrase to justify being a big, fat, dirty liar. Filoni, Lucas, and Pablo Hidalgo have all been pretty clear in their statements on the subject : Jango isn't Mandalorian. Period. No " Certain Point of View. " No conditional statements . Hidalgo did say, "The Fetts aren't Mandalorian, though I suppose Jango claimed to be from Concord Dawn at some point ."

And, again, there's also no contradictory information in the ancillary media (novels, comics, etc) currently accepted into canon regarding Jango's origins.

As penpenpen noted, no one is saying that it's not possible for that being the in-story reason for Ahsoka's lightsaber color. Simply that, as it stands , there's also no supporting information in-story. Ahsoka "cleansed" Inquisitor crystals. The resulting lightsaber blades were white. That's all we know.

But, apparently , the word of people responsible for making these decisions for the franchise should be taken as the last word for certain subjects, but not others.

And I'm still curious as to who this "Faloni" guy is, and what connection he has to Star Wars. Is he like Old MC, THE best Young MC impersonator on the circuit ? 😜

Bust a move.

Dave Filoni is more than just the "animation guy", given that he is also one of the executive producers and is directing at least one, possibly more, episodes of The Mandalorian . Secondly, yes, Pablo Hidalgo has gone on record stating that Jango has claims to Concord Dawn as his homeworld, and he too is one of the "big wigs" at Lucasfilm. The key point here, is that within the fiction , we have two contradictory in character statements. Jango, who claims to be from Concord Dawn (a mandalorian colony), and Olmec, denying Jango is Mandalorian, for purely political reasons, not wanting to be associated with a notorious bounty hunter and assassin. As such, the veracity of his in character statement is colored by his political ambitions. And out of universe we have Filoni saying Jango isn't Mandalorian (at least not by blood), and Hidalgo confirming in universe claims by Jango that he is from Concord Dawn, a Mandalorian world, of which there is no reason why Jango would lie about that as he has nothing to gain by lying nor lose by telling the truth since Concord Dawn is a "back woods" colony, not the Mandalorian homeworld. And it is a long established part of his history since he was first introduced. These are contradictions regarding Jango's status, that, combined with the differing ways someone can be considered Mandalorian or not, leave open this question to certain points of view .

By contrast, Filoni's statement regarding Ahsoka's lightsaber crystals have no such contradictions. The book establishes how Sith get their red bladed lightsabers (through "bleeding" the crystals to corrupt them), and Ahsoka purifies two of them and attunes them to herself, changing them from red to clear, and thus creating white blades. Filoni then confirms that this particular color occurred because of Ahsoka not being a Jedi. This is everything we have on this. There's no "subjective" or contradictory information or opinions, of "true from a certain point of view" as is the case with Jango. It's an objective fact regarding why Ahsoka's lightsabers have blades that particular color.

14 minutes ago, Yaccarus said:

I think everyone else was bolding so much in order to satirize Tramp Graphics, but I might be mistaken.

Oh, you're not mistaken. However, there is a practical reason why I bold certain words or passages.

52 minutes ago, Yaccarus said:

I think everyone else was bolding so much in order to satirize Tramp Graphics, but I might be mistaken.

Yes, I did it once myself but quit when it became obvious that Tramp will never understand satire.