After another (solo) play or two testing things out, I like the fixed dice pools, I really like the new grenade rules, I like having the command points every turn. But I'm definetely getting a few worries:

1) [Minor] The new troop packs are announced right after the rulebook preview that specifically says "3 heroes, 2 troopers". This indicates...I don't know, a lack of synching up? Something about this just screams "we're just churning this out and not playtesting it". Could be way off.

2) [Moderate] We still have no idea how you get an extra CP to reinforce a trooper. It seems like it pretty much has to be something completely trooper specific, so why say it takes 3 command points to respawn a trooper when you can't use the majority of CP to do it? Since it seems like trooper respawn will be limited to a very few heroes, won't that really force those heroes to be "essential" picks instead of giving you more variety? I'm just really not sure I'm going to like any way this could work out, unless its that extra CP DO carry over, which would seem all around better. (As is, the odds of being able to open a crate when you actually need the extra CP seem pretty low - you'd pretty much have to find a crate with VP then leave someone standing there doing nothing waiting for a good moment).

3) [Major?] I feel like the end game is going to fizzle. With attack and soak dice now very close, most normal attacks usually only do about 1 damage. You can spend 1 CP, which you get two of every turn, to prevent one damage. Once you're down to only 1 or 2 characters left, you can spend CP to stop the damage from every attack! Seems like this could make the end of a fight become a dragging stand off until someone gets really lucky.

Actually, I generally worry about how good reducing wounds is with CP every turn. I like that charcters die more gradually, but it seems hard to kill things other than with Flashguns or similar weapons (which get a major boost).

4) [Really minor] It seems odd that you can an extra 2 movement by spending 1 CP for +1 move and 1 CP to boost your movement stat by 1. That's probably not a problem, its just strange that there are two ways to boost the same stat.

StormKnight said:

StormKnight,

I agree with you on most other points, but I think the CP and wounds work fine together, my wife and I have done some playtesting, and even played with 5 CP per turn, and there were just as many casualties as in any other game (and that was a 6 v. 6 deathmatch R v. U).

But I will admit if the dice are frack'n with you, it could be a long days journey into night.

Where were your casualties coming from, and were you spending CP to prevent wounds?

The numbers are something like this:

Typical soak roll = 4 dice needing 5+ = stops 2.4 damage.

Standard pistol shot = 4 dice needing 3+ = 3.2 damage = .8 damage after soak

Standard automatic shot = 5 dice needing 4+ = 3.5 damage = 1.1 damage after soak

So normal weapons on average aren't going to do more damage than a target can soak up with a CP.

Flashguns rolled a lot of un-countered natural 10s.

And the stosstruppen with Demon Taint and Combat Knife gets two bonus hits, rolled an avarage of 3 hits, so thats 5 hits, shock rolls avraged 2-3 blocks; so the stoss almost guarenteed 2 wounds, only 1 can be healed by CP, and the first aid kits were all gone by turn 2. He alone killed both Union Troopes and Tala.

I think a lot of people are forgeting that the final values for combat are greatly effected by equipment used.

Even Yula managed to kill and Disarm MacNeal.

Flashguns rolled a lot of un-countered natural 10s.

And the stosstruppen with Demon Taint and Combat Knife gets two bonus hits, rolled an avarage of 3 hits, so thats 5 hits, shock rolls avraged 2-3 blocks; so the stoss almost guarenteed 2 wounds, only 1 can be healed by CP, and the first aid kits were all gone by turn 2. He alone killed both Union Troopes and Tala.

I think a lot of people are forgeting that the final values for combat are greatly effected by equipment used.

Even Yula managed to kill and Disarm MacNeal.

The only rule change that I don't like so far is the apperent elimination of the custom pack option. There are some characters (most notably the Schocktruppen) which I have never equipped with a standard pack, either because I don't find their special object useful, or because a I want an empty slot for crate tokens.

Something odd with my connection today, very heavy storms here.

So, basically what I said...only the things with good bonus damage

That leaves the Union trooper who can't get a flashgun, the shock trooper, Ozo, Tala (after her one-shot bomb), wolf, possibly Heinzinger (no idea what his stuff will do now) and the packs for McNeal and the other trooper that don't include a flashgun. (I have only seen the base set + Wolf and Yula)

That's a lot of characters that can't fight effectively...

But maybe they'll all get some sort of upgrade.

Great discussion. Keep us posted on your experiences with the new rules!

Just got done playing our 2nd game with the new rules and I can honestly say it's been an improvement. The combat and grenade system makes much more sense now and everything seemed to play out a lot smoother. We've still got a couple more games before I think we're totally satisfied but overall this is a great change.

StormKnight said:

i've only seen the rules preview so far (the local shop is still waiting on the new rulebooks), but in the old rules you could earn vp for kills. do the new rules not have anything similar in them (anybody that's seen the whole book?)? given that cp are so short lived by comparison i wouldn't be at all surprised to see something similar in order to allow reinforcements, but i don't know the official word on that detail. maybe somebody can confirm one way or the other?

StormKnight said:

looks like there aren't. i was re-examining the rules preview last night (looking for cp info) and noticed that the stats are specifically listed for the 'increase a characteristic' option; movement isn't in the list, so it can't be boosted using this option. seems like it would have been more streamlined to put the added movement there instead of continuing to have the 'one additional movement' rule as well, but maybe it would have conflicted with something i haven't seen.

*edit* also, as regards the cp issue, looks like several of the non-deathmatch modes have 3cps.

As far as I understand, all so far released Products are compatible with the new rules, no repurchase needed?

So the new Rules does cover The original set, the figure packs (all including wolf?) and novgorod?

I couldn't grap a copy myself up until now, as I am from the other side of the big lake.

Urd said:

Yes, the Revised Rules are covering all printed product produced till now. this meanns that the bonus token which were exclusive to the website (ie not included in a printed product) and all the web scenarios are not included in this book.

The first complete release under the new ruleset will be the Troop Packs later this summer.

A question that came to me,a fer seeing Zor'Ka's new packs:

How does "Awakening" work when she has "Presence" from the Mental pack?

She has a "null characteristic'" in mental then, so how do you make a Mental roll to activate Presence?

edit: found that the answer was already asked another thread, so nevermind.

Question: What is berrys combat knive good for except for the rare chance of an overwatch closecombat attack? Is there any special ruling which sets closecombat appert from shooting? Sam thing: Why does wolf have a knive when you could always just use his gun in close combat. Please tell me I have missed a spot in the rulebook.

Monty Pillepalle said:

You can use the knife to make an effective melee attack through a door. Other than that, I, too, am wondering about a use for close combat weapons. In my view the minimum range, at least for automatic/heavy weapons, really made a lot of sense.

If someone fails at a bull rush you can make a free melee attack. And Doors.

Not much importance to knives.

Not being able to counter attack against knives would be a nice rules change.

I am not to very happy about the fact min range is gone now.

A min range of 1 field for all non melee-Weapons would be way more appropriate, because, who would want to make amelee attack if they have guns and all?

I think I'm gonna house-roule Gun fights between adjecent circles. (Like not beein possible, or you have to win A stamina duell like in a Bull rush, since in Melee Range, the other char can stop you from proper aiming with, weel his bare hands.)