Part of the new rules are up: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Tannhauser/revised-edition/tannhauser-rules-preview.pdf

I have not played in a long time, so I am wondering what some of you who still play regularly think of the new rules? Well, at the least those that we see. Are they really different? Are they much better? Worse? I find the last one hard to believe with FFG. Everything these guys do seem top notch.

I look forward to reading what people have to say about them.

I haven't had time to digest the new rules and can't say that I'm any expert at the first edition rules but I must say, FFG really likes the number 4.

Some quick general thoughts- I like the new grenade rules- bouncing grenades onto new paths, be able to target occupied and unoccupied circles, not having to roll damage. I also like how Smoke Grenades have a timer mechanism and they simplified the effect. Overwatch is interesting and much appreciated. I found it interesting that they included Heavy items as illegal overwatch weapons. Probably a balance issue.

I'll have to play through the game a little bit to see how it works but the "10 - current value" seems a little clunky. The first edition was clunky too so I can't say that its a positive or negative move yet but I do tend to like not having to make players do calculations during game play. It may not be bad during actual play though. Its hard to say if I like the set values that weapons have. Likely its easier to balance characters this way but I liked that someone with a 6 combat value was chucking 6 dice at his opponent. It gave a physical feedback mechanic as to the skill a 6 value character had over a 4 value character (beyond the comparison of the roll against the value). I'll be interested to see how the equipment changes affect the dice values and other affects.

Lastly, I'm glad to see that they will be including updates for everything currently out for the game including the single pack characters.

No an expert at the game by any means, but all i can say is i am now REALLY excited to get the full new rules AND pay the additional $5 for them happily

Command points system rocks. Good riddance VP.

Overwatch - was needed, but implemented in a way that it forces a hard decision sometimes, at the cost of no activation at all. It makes sense to me that heavy weapons can't be used, since there is no facing in this game, meaning characters in overwatch are constantly looking in both directions and react quickly.

Grenades - like the extra non-path circle and the 4 auto wounds instead of based on combat value. Think it's good smokes can go further, but doesn't make sense to me how that's possible...Like the two-turn smoke also...I guess that's what all those smoke tokens were for

Attacking - certainly more streamlined fixing the dice pools and makes more sense thematically as guns dont shoot less when youre hurt, but more difficult to hit your target Do the rules presented mean that Barry can now shoot someone right next to him??? I'm sure the equipment desciption will say if there is a min. distance though.

And looks like deployment bonuses are now going to be Initiative bonuses. YAY! more usable equipment!

Can't wait to read about the Modes, and if there will be scenarios included as it seems to reference...76 more pages in the perfect-bound (hopefully thicker cover) book...(sounds like a decent sized, quality book )

Talk about a polished product....SO much easier to read it looks like, compared to the former one! The only section title missing from the first version was "What is this?" -"this is a book of rules for the game Tannhauser...."

I did not have the time to read through the rules, I'll do that tonight. However it seems that a lot of things have been added/updated so only actual play will reveal the impact of those changes.

One tyhing I'm glad to see in-game is the inclusion of Traits which I missed from the previous version.

just downloaded, so ill add an opinion later, one thing i have noticed that is good is the grenade rules, adds a bit more realism, i must read properly but it looks like a special equipment token can still be taken even if you dont have a complete pack, is this so?

Many improvements, IMHO. I really like the command points, never was to fond of the VP´s. And overwatch sounds great, a new tactical element to consider. The new Bull Rush rules means that someone actually will do a BR! (only happened once or twice over several games when I´ve played). Grenades and Smoke Grenades also sounds nice. HTH through doors is good, no more blocking doorways (curious about the one-way doors on Daedalus though, can you make HTH attacks through them as well?). Very curious about weapon ranges. Are there no minimum ranges? Well, good riddance in that case. Never was very logical. The new dice pools for test and combat requires some getting used to, but sounds good.

Overall; great changes and I can´t wait to get the complete new rulebook!

Just read through the rules.

Most changes are nice even if I miss shacking off multiple Wounds or buy 2 more Movement Point though.

However I feel that teh real "meat" will be the Equipement Section where I expect to see a lot of changes.

Oh and there's a typo in the fluff on p.15 bottom. It's ReichDoktor Hass Horbringer, not Hoss Hoss Harbinger.

Hi,

Just done down loading them and have only skimmed the Rules. Am i right in thinking you are now limited to 3 heroes and 2 grunts ? didnt we used to be able to take 2 heroes and 3 grunts as well ?( been a while since i played). If this is the case i wonder if that changes the fate of the grunt pack that was planned.

Rgs

Dec

( must stop caling them Grunts)

It was always 3 heroes, 2 troopers (though the Matriarch kind of break this with there little bots). Mainly this is because you only get 2 Troopers in the core set. I wouldn't mind seeing variants on this but I'd need to get more troopers...

na it was 3 and 2 but the grunts can come back

I have to agree with everyone about the initiative being better than having victory points. The grenades are nice, but I can not remember what all complaints I had about them before. I know we played with them, but they did not seem to be a big part. I also look forward to seeing how equipment affects the game. Should be good times. I did snag a couple of tickets for a buddy and I at GenCon once I heard the 2.0 rules would be used for the games.

Hi Guys,

Just checked the old rules and you could take 2 heroes and 3 troopers ( page 15 c:3). Not that it matters now as it seems to have been romoved from the game under the new rules. Maybe it will appear in other modes (story). Still, makes me wonder if we are still geting the trooper pack. Seems there is less of a reason now. But you never know.

Love the fact that this teaser has me dusting off all my Tannhauser stuff.

Rgs

Dec

I'm very excited we are finally hearing something about it.....and very much looking forward to being able to snag a copy.

Interesting, I never played 2 heroes and 3 troopers (mainly cuz I never had 3 troopers). I still wouldn't mind seeing a troopers pack as I'd like to field multiples of the same trooper in a team and it would likely reduce the need to proxy equipment.

Regarding the grenades... my annoyance with the original rules was that their mechanics did not make sense and were extremely counter-intuitive. Grenades couldn't land on a space occupied by a character? Had to be thrown a minimum distance? It was just weird and created odd scenarios where figures to choke up an area so that no grenade could be thrown at all. This makes for an interesting strategy but is the exact opposite of a simulated environment. A bunch of enemies crowding a choke point is the perfect time to throw a grenade at them, yet this was when they where most protected.

It was weird clunky rules like the grenade usage that made this game hard to teach to friends. Eventually most friends would get past it but it usually forced the players to get out of the game to deal with the mechanics. At that point, they could be playing with checker pieces on a paper grid for all they cared. FFG looks like they are fixing these elements so I'm glad to see the minor illogical mechanics scrapped. Now lets see what they do with the ranged rules.

I also wouldn't mind seeing cover rules or blocked line of sight. I know the path system usually takes care of this but in long straight hallways, its a little weird to think that I have the same ability to hit the lead guy in the hall as the guy in the very back of the hall. Did I miss any mention of this in the new rule preview?

yea i just said as you get 3 heroes and 2 troopers, maybe thats why they changed the rules to match with what you got in the box?

darknight said:

I think that Take On You orignal plan was toi release more Troops so you would be able to play with a 2 Heroes/3 Troops squad but it never came out. I bet that if FFG ever release the Troop pack that was planned (same troops, different paint schemes, new equipements) they may reintroduce the alternate squad construction option.

With the new rules I wonder how the Matriarchy masterpiece Zor'Ka will be affected. Before one of the surest way to take her down was to trap her in a smoke filled path as it reduced her Stamina Value. I guess we'll have to wait for the rulebook release to test it...

New rules are looking good.

Addresses a lot of issues that it had.

the 2 CP system looks great.

Concerns

Overwatch- Will it make Union too powerful?

With the 2 CP system do the current victory points found in crates accuratly represent the power and balance in the 2 CP system?

I look forward to the equipment tokens.

Plageman said:

The new rules do not allow a 2 Hero / 3 Trooper team.

"Each team is comprised of three Heroes and two Troopers."

The main rules are for Deathmatch Mode and we do not have the rules for the other Modes yet, so they may allow different configurations.

Doc Savage said:

I agree with darknigth, FFG is just aligning its rulebook with the actual game content. But I'm still sure that should they release the extra troop pack, they will reintroduce the 2 Hero / 3 Troopers squad configuration.

BTW such squad has been used many times during vassal game session and you can be sure that being able play with three stosstruppen is quite powerful !

Not an expert by any means, but this is the internet so I'll give my opinion anyway

When I added a bunch of houserules to Tannhauser, the two big changes we made were adding overwatch and making die rolls only "use each number once". Its funny, I've seen the "I roll dice based on my stat vs a target number based on your stat opposed by your rolling dice based on your stat vs a target number based on my stat" in several RPGs, and it always gets converted within an edition or two to not adding in each number twice. Each stat is already included in the oppposed roll, you don't need to include them twice!

I went for a fixed base target of 6. In most ways, Iike the FFG solution of a fixed dice pool better, except that it winds up messy since they are trying to make it match with existing stats. Roll (10-skill) is pretty bad.

It would be much easier to say "roll skill or less" and redo items that trigger on 10 to trigger on a 1.

Without redoing items, they could do "roll less than skill" and count a '0' on the die as an actual 0 for success.

But a lot of people seem to have a mental block against "roll low".

I think the new rules will make attacks generally less lethal. In the old system, if you had combat 6 and a +1 to hit gun against toughness 5, you'd average:

4.2 hits - 2.5 defense = 1.7 damage.

Now, its: 3.2 hits - 2.4 defense = .8 damage.

A lot less. With attacks only averaging 1 damage, spending a CP to prevent 1 damage is very strong, which makes me wonder if there overwatch implementation is a good idea.

Flash guns and automatic hit weapons are proportionally better.

I like the new grenade rules, especially the smoke grenade rules. Being able to 'bounce' a little makes them much more useful.

I really hope they are simplifying down all the tokens to where the game isn't such a reference nightmare to play...time will tell.

Wow at last the new rules are on their way. I almost got tired of checking.

Well I like what I see so far but until the full finished rules are available it's hard to put it all together. Like someone mentioned earlier the equipment part will be a key part of the new rules and it will be interesting to see what comes out.

I still think having no geomorphic map system for this game could hold back it's full potential. Come on! Who wouldn't want some external grounds leading up to the mansion with maybe a bridge on it Dirty Dozen style While there is a positive side to the circular PFS there are also some negatives another being waste of map space IMO. Well it looks like FFG are keeping the original map format so I will stop bitching on about it from now (or at least try).

With any luck the new unique characters, Troop pack & the new map will be released soon and breathe some more life into the game following on from the revised rule set. I look forward to these announcements and with any luck FFG may have some more goodies unknown to us.

EDIT - It will be interesting to see what the detail & paint job quality will be like in the new sets released by FFG. I always felt a little let down that they were not quite up to par with the ones featured on the TOY website & if FFG made a notable improvement in these areas I would even consider buying the whole base set again, even if the price went up to reflect the extra care put into the paint job detail.

StormKnight said:

Well, we played it a few nights ago (was a group of 8 of us and decided to use 1 hero each for a 4 against 4 experience), and instead of the quite silly -10 thing we just used the 10 as "To Hit" number for any roll.

So you roll an attack and add your combat value, if you get 10 or more it is a pass, if you get less then 10 after the die roll and all your bonuses ad up it is a miss. Same with shock and duels.

Worked like a charm and was real easy to explain to the newcomers to the game.

I like it ! Its easy to understand and merge nicely with +x bonus to roll results

Yes it would seem that a base to hit value of 10 is the more logical choice as opposed to the 10 - combat value system they have introduced with the new rules

Especially considering that the numerical values are identical since both options use 10 as the base.

It also blends in with all the current gear bonuses quite nicely

...instead of the quite silly -10 thing we just used the 10 as "To Hit" number for any roll.

Probably a more intuitive way of thinking of it.

I'd still rather just see "roll low", but I'm odd

On a separate note, I'm really wondering how you get troopers pack. Bonus points from crates won't be available at the correct time, and apparently it takes an action for Eva to use her extra CP ability, so they won't be available either. Is there something we haven't seen, or did FFG miss the matter of timing on those?