1 hour ago, Jo Jo said:Kylo is too expensive and with the rumors of SNR getting a sky-rocketed price tag, he might be a back of the book pilot for me. I really wish FFG came up with a better ability for him. It's just kind of boring.
Isn't that just forum whining and/or wishlisting? Is there actually any real reason to expect a price hike on this card? It's already 12 points, and nowhere near dominating the meta.
34 minutes ago, SOTL said:Potentially there's a 2-ship Kylo/QD squad.
Sadly I’m not a good enough player to pull that one off!
22 hours ago, Smudger13 said:In 1.0 I was a pretty dedicated Imperial player, and coming into 2.0 my intention was to play FO pretty exhaustively. 30+ games, many with Kylo later, and I have to say they have been a huge disappointment.
Then I picked up a couple of T70s and an X Wing and... wow. Poe is incredible. You can load him to the gills and still come in at Kylo’s base cost. It’s insane how much better Poe felt in every aspect.
The Resistance faction overall has been a real pleasure the fly, the most fun I’ve had on the table in 2.0.
But boy, there’s a little stormtrooper inside me crying that I haven’t been able to crack the FO and that I’m flying Resistance in my first tournament of 2019.
Anyone else been tempted to defect!?
I'm playing both but admit the Resistance is just better. The T-70s are considerably underpriced relative to the field and have some of the best potential for action economy. I think that A-wings are also probably underpriced, too, for their time on target and both have very little cost for increase in PS on very good chassis (except Poe, but his ability is one of the best in the game). I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's why they wanted to wait on the price adjustment.
7 hours ago, AlexW said:I'm playing both but admit the Resistance is just better. The T-70s are considerably underpriced relative to the field and have some of the best potential for action economy. I think that A-wings are also probably underpriced, too, for their time on target and both have very little cost for increase in PS on very good chassis (except Poe, but his ability is one of the best in the game). I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's why they wanted to wait on the price adjustment.
TBH its not that they are undercosted resistance its just the FO has crap pilot abilities. Literally the cookie cutter template for a good ability is "you probably get a free action" and they gave it to 5 xwings but 0 silencers.
8 hours ago, prauxim said:TBH its not that they are undercosted resistance its just the FO has crap pilot abilities. Literally the cookie cutter template for a good ability is "you probably get a free action" and they gave it to 5 xwings but 0 silencers.
Extra action abilities are strong and that helps for sure, but I would still argue that the chassis of the T70 and Awing are too cheap for what you get when compared to similar ships.
FO doesn’t have as easy access to extta actions in abities (except Tavson) they get a lot of abilities that allow them to punch above their cost (Scorch, Midnight, QD, Longshot) which are also very strong abilities, and they have easy access to coordinate to give these ships double actions. The difference is that these ships aren’t on as maneuverable or resilient chassis.
With respect to the Silencer vs T70, I think that should clearly illustrate the difference in cost. The silencer is paying 10 points for a better dial, autothrusters and exchanging health for an agility (and a worse ratio of hulls to shields).
Even if we agree that the health is a wash (I think we could argue it is a downgrade in an action starved game where crits are worse), I don’t think autothrusters and a better dial make up those 10 points, especially when the title makes up some ground on the basic action economy and a couple of points can get a mech that narrows the dial disparity significantly.
In addition, the T70 pays just four points to get to I4 generic while the silencer pays 6! Then the Silencer pays 14 points to get its first named I5 while the t70 pays 9/10.
Like this?
Kylo Ren (82)
Supernatural Reflexes (12)
"Quickdraw" (45)
Lone Wolf (4)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Advanced Sensors (8)
Shield Upgrade (6)
"Null" (31)
Fanatical (2)
Total: 200
59 minutes ago, Stefan said:Like this?
Kylo Ren (82)
Supernatural Reflexes (12)"Quickdraw" (45)
Lone Wolf (4)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Advanced Sensors (8)
Shield Upgrade (6)"Null" (31)
Fanatical (2)Total: 200
I think you'll need a good bid so assume you'll have to lose Shield Upgrade & Fanatical.
2 hours ago, AlexW said:With respect to the Silencer vs T70, I think that should clearly illustrate the difference in cost. The silencer is paying 10 points for a better dial, autothrusters and exchanging health for an agility (and a worse ratio of hulls to shields).
Even if we agree that the health is a wash (I think we could argue it is a downgrade in an action starved game where crits are worse), I don’t think autothrusters and a better dial make up those 10 points, especially when the title makes up some ground on the basic action economy and a couple of points can get a mech that narrows the dial disparity significantly.
In addition, the T70 pays just four points to get to I4 generic while the silencer pays 6! Then the Silencer pays 14 points to get its first named I5 while the t70 pays 9/10.
Agreed. The whole FO seems to be a bit overcosted, while Resistance looks undercosted.
In general, it seems that FFG has overvalued most of the agility 3 ships, perhaps because of the 1.0 mindset where 3 green with token stacks and passive mods were really good.
However with just 1 token for defence and no passive defensive mods, the third die is now extremely underwhelming, and is pretty much the same as having 2 dice with just 1 extra health.
It definitely doesn't warrant the higher price (and for some chassis lesser HP) which comes with it.
Here's some quick math:
- Silencer durability is 5.335 shots
- T70 durability is 4.936 shots , but with Heroic it's almost identical at 5.255 shots
On 1/12/2019 at 10:24 AM, Okapi said:Isn't that just forum whining and/or wishlisting? Is there actually any real reason to expect a price hike on this card? It's already 12 points, and nowhere near dominating the meta.
Like I said, just rumors I heard from a somewhat reliable source. I don't agree with the price hike. I think its fine where it is.
Edited by Jo Jo3 hours ago, Jo Jo said:
Like I said, just rumors I heard from a somewhat reliable source. I don't agree with the price hike. I think its fine where it is.
Agreed. There is no performance based reason for a hike, most Luke in top cuts didn't run SN, Vader was non-present. People think Super Kylo is going to be a world eater, but I think they are hilariously wrong. QD/Poe are going to be common and are going to make you rethink life for dropping 100pts on him.
On 1/14/2019 at 12:54 PM, prauxim said:Agreed. There is no performance based reason for a hike, most Luke in top cuts didn't run SN, Vader was non-present. People think Super Kylo is going to be a world eater, but I think they are hilariously wrong. QD/Poe are going to be common and are going to make you rethink life for dropping 100pts on him.
True. The silencer is good, but Poe offers so much more consistency, especially in a 6+ game tournament. He's like Soontir Fel but built like a tank!
However, you can still revive dead memes with the silencer by painting it to be a big chungus.
On 1/13/2019 at 10:01 AM, AlexW said:With respect to the Silencer vs T70, I think that should clearly illustrate the difference in cost. The silencer is paying 10 points for a better dial, autothrusters and exchanging health for an agility (and a worse ratio of hulls to shields). Even if we agree that the health is a wash (I think we could argue it is a downgrade in an action starved game where crits are worse), I don’t think autothrusters and a better dial make up those 10 points, especially when the title makes up some ground on the basic action economy and a couple of points can get a mech that narrows the dial disparity significantly. In addition, the T70 pays just four points to get to I4 generic while the silencer pays 6! Then the Silencer pays 14 points to get its first named I5 while the t70 pays 9/10.
These are great points easily showing what all thinking people see, Silencers are over-costed. However, the glaring issue the designers killed Kylo with before his rebirth is the fact he is not a I6, which is weird, especially given his amazingly high point cost at I5.
On 1/14/2019 at 12:54 PM, prauxim said:Agreed. There is no performance based reason for a hike, most Luke in top cuts didn't run SN, Vader was non-present. People think Super Kylo is going to be a world eater, but I think they are hilariously wrong. QD/Poe are going to be common and are going to make you rethink life for dropping 100pts on him.
Yeah, Vader cost makes everyone sad. And his grandson costing even more and being a non-top-pilot is just as wrong. Neither will do well in cuts against the better top pilots in the field with the current point cost system assigned to them.
Maybe in the next Disney movie Kylo should steal a T-70 or above, paint it black and red and become a top pilot again?
On 1/13/2019 at 3:01 PM, AlexW said:In addition, the T70 pays just four points to get to I4 generic while the silencer pays 6!
In fairness, that's because you're starting from an I1 generic (the Sienar-Jaemus Engineer) not an I2 generic (the Blue Squadron Rookie), and with Autothrusters you can* better leverage the higher initiative. You'll note the same surcharge in taking Zealous Recruits to Skull Squadron and Alpha squadron to Sabers.
55 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:However, the glaring issue the designers killed Kylo with before his rebirth is the fact he is not a I6, which is weird, especially given his amazingly high point cost at I5.
Actually, I think that was a very intelligent move. Kylo Ren is stupidly manoeuvrable between the Silencer's dial, Supernatural Reflexes, native boost and barrel roll and autothrusters. Even if you know what manoeuvre has been dialled in (because, say, Ion token) he can still boost/autothrusters/roll before his move and make a credible attempt at arc dodging, and with agility 3 and six hit points he's not that vulnerable even if he gets caught by the odd pot-shot. However, he has a fundamentally exploitable weakness - I6 pilots aren't impossible to outmanoeuvre, but you have to outguess your opponent because you can't react to them.
* in theory. I'm pretty rubbish at it.
2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:In fairness, that's because you're starting from an I1 generic (the Sienar-Jaemus Engineer) not an I2 generic (the Blue Squadron Rookie), and with Autothrusters you can* better leverage the higher initiative. You'll note the same surcharge in taking Zealous Recruits to Skull Squadron and Alpha squadron to Sabers.
Both are I1.
On 1/12/2019 at 10:52 AM, SOTL said:Tavson in Extended, Thanisson in Hyperspace.
I've played multiple games with both and for my money Tavson is better every time, regardless of build.
SNR has a counter play in that there are not high mobility i6 force pilots. Vader is the only one and that is the reason he doesn't have boost.
I could say that bb8 poe can do some crazy pre movement boost and broll, but he is limited by green maneuvers and only 2 charges.
I feel that Anakin will really expensive, really fragile or both.
1 hour ago, DerRitter said:SNR has a counter play in that there are not high mobility i6 force pilots. Vader is the only one and that is the reason he doesn't have boost.
I could say that bb8 poe can do some crazy pre movement boost and broll, but he is limited by green maneuvers and only 2 charges.
I feel that Anakin will really expensive, really fragile or both.
Delta 7B config: why not both? (-1 agility, +2 shields)
On 1/17/2019 at 12:20 PM, Magnus Grendel said:Actually, I think that was a very intelligent move. Kylo Ren is stupidly manoeuvrable between the Silencer's dial, Supernatural Reflexes, native boost and barrel roll and autothrusters. Even if you know what manoeuvre has been dialled in (because, say, Ion token) he can still boost/autothrusters/roll before his move and make a credible attempt at arc dodging, and with agility 3 and six hit points he's not that vulnerable even if he gets caught by the odd pot-shot. However, he has a fundamentally exploitable weakness - I6 pilots aren't impossible to outmanoeuvre, but you have to outguess your opponent because you can't react to them.
* in theory. I'm pretty rubbish at it.
Granted, and I would agree if I haven't given far to much of my life flying arc dodgers. I cannot get that time back.
Moving last is crystal clear board-state knowledge.
Moving last is everything.
In this discussion, Kylo moves first; Poe moves last.
Poe is better, period.
On 1/18/2019 at 2:21 AM, clanofwolves said:These are great points easily showing what all thinking people see, Silencers are over-costed. However, the glaring issue the designers killed Kylo with before his rebirth is the fact he is not a I6, which is weird, especially given his amazingly high point cost at I.
2
There is no cost at which an i6 Supernatural Kylo would have been balanced. He would literally solo any list that didn't bring an i6 and outbid him.
Best Kylo build (current points) I can see is:
Kylo: Supernatural, Primed
Quickdraw: Trick Shot, FO Gunner, Collision
Null: Squad Leader
Not “great” but not too bad. Problem is Quickddaw is the “star” (4 dice double tap from behind rocks). Kylo just tries not to die.
Since Kylo is so expensive why not just slap sense on him and run him with 4 FO Cadets?
Kylo can haul his weight with torps, but at that point, you're venturing into a 2 ship list. If torps go up, he will not be happy. SNR is a joy and a puzzle (expanded with primed thrusters), but tbh, uncle Luke can have some dank friends with pre maneuver shenanigans. Poe is great for his flexibility and I6, but will be possibly overshadowed by Anakin in a delta 7b. That is of course, unless he costs like Luke Gunner.
On 1/12/2019 at 6:50 AM, SOTL said:I ❤️ the new A-Wings, happy to run 5 of them.
In First Order Im not sure I like any list that doesn't have an Upsilon to give it some structure. They all just seem like a bunch of dudes flying about without a plan, just hoping to make something happen.
I agree with you on the FO feel. I would really like to get a FO tie swarmmy thing going but they just aren't nearly as cohesive as their galactic empire counterparts.
Thus leaves you with a hodge podge of a bunch of random FO's and SF's which feels weird to me.
13 hours ago, Dave Grant said:Best Kylo build (current points) I can see is:
Kylo: Supernatural, Primed
Quickdraw: Trick Shot, FO Gunner, Collision
Null: Squad Leader
Not “great” but not too bad. Problem is Quickddaw is the “star” (4 dice double tap from behind rocks). Kylo just tries not to die.
Is primed really that crucial on kylo? It doesn't seem worth it to me....